The Industrial Heat Answer

    "Defendants deny that the energy catalyzer (“E-Cat”) technology “generates a low energy nuclear reaction resulting in an exothermic release of energy” along the lines claimed by Plaintiffs – which is that a reactor using the E-Cat technology produces more than 50 times the energy it consumes."


    "Indeed, using the E-Cat technology Plaintiffs directly provided them, Industrial Heat and IPH have been unable to produce any measurable excess energy."


    (Emphasis added.)


    Read: We (IH) have improved the technology so that it is commercially viable. (Which explains why we filed our own patent applications.)

    Can't really call him a sleazebag as this trick is also a semi-elegant way to get out an informal agreement with another partner, just to consolidate the deal with Cherokee


    And yes, if anything this reinforces the credibility of this tech, also shows how glad he was to be working with Darden

    Quote

    Since you and GW are buddies

    I've never met and have very rarely emailed Gary Wright. I am not even sure that is his real name. We are not buddies. Also, I do not care who Favioranti is and I doubt that we can find out. I suspect that he is, like Fabiani and Penon, a stooge of Rossi who simply played for pay.


    Quote

    Read: We (IH) have improved the technology so that it is commercially viable. (Which explains why we filed our own patent applications.)

    Complete nonsense. IH has nothing and will most likely never have anything. They are simply gullible and wishful thinkers.


    Quote

    Can't really call him a sleazebag as this trick is also a semi-elegant way to get out an informal agreement with another partner, just to consolidate the deal with Cherokee

    Sure you can. He is a lying, scheming, crooked slime bag Sleazemeister. You do not get out of an agreement, formal or otherwise, by lying your way out and, if Rossi had had anything, cheating the partner out of millions if not billions of dollars. Maybe in your universe, Keieueue, but not in mine.

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    IH Fanboy wrote:
    Read: We (IH) have improved the technology so that it is commercially viable. (Which explains why we filed our own patent applications.)


    Complete nonsense. IH has nothing and will most likely never have anything. They are simply gullible and wishful thinkers.


    It actually fits quite well with Dewey's behavior on this forum. I asked Dewey in a number of different ways whether this was the case, and usually got mis-directed answers or silence. IH have something. They feel that to get the E-cat to work, they had to do something to improve it themselves, so they give little if any credit to Rossi (and in fact, pull the fraud card instead). Mary, as much as you might think that this counter-complaint puts to bed Rossi-type technology once and for all, I'm afraid you will be disappointed over the course of the next months and years.

    Quote


    Gameover,While that first e-mail shows Rossi to be a sleazebag, it also supports the narrative that he has something.


    (1) this is Rossi writing to Darden in contractual (or post-contractual pre-payment) talks. He is not going to say anything unsupportive of his narrative that he has something.


    (2) this is equally supportive of the narrative that he has nothing.


    While your argument is correct, it is misleading and exactly what has kept the Rossi fiction going for so long. After all, to gain positive comments such as yours all Rossi has to do is to say things that are "supportive of the narrative that he has something". We see here that he can easily spin even a failed test like that.

    @ AlainCo:


    I hardly see how it is trolling to explain what Ramen is doing


    Sorry if it's so unpleasant to see that seemingly unrelated issues are in fact very much related


    Do you really think it's a big old coincidence that Ramen pretends to be of the same religious confession as a sect of a certain part of the world that depends on a certain energy production source for his wealth? said source is put at odds with new energetical paradigms


    Also how much of a coincidence does it have to become when, asked about a very particular point of metaphysical debate, he shows sympathies for the theological interpretations (very unsavory they are) coming from this very particular sect in this aforementioned part of the world?


    If anyone's trolling here, it's him, and there's a very dark current carrying this distasteful fellow

    Quote

    They feel that to get the E-cat to work, they had to do something to improve it themselves...


    This was most probably Defkalion's exact mistake. They thought they could figure out the part Rossi had left out. Problem was, other than various ways to mismeasure the output power and perhaps even the input power, there was no secret. IH will find out the same thing.

    Quote

    Further posts on this topic will be deleted (or green-inked at least.)

    Or they could simply be argued for the stupid and paranoid bullsh*t that they are.

    Quote from sifferkoll

    Here it is:


    http://www.sifferkoll.se/siffe…nd-penon-in-counterclaim/

    You may not want to admit it, Torkel, but you got that file either from newvortex or from someone who got it from newvortex.


    I wonder what, as a stakeholder in Hydro Fusion, you think of Exhibits 12 and 13, in which Rossi boasts of his "masterpiece," getting rid of the European licensees.


    Some of the documents from Rossi, I wonder if the IH people needed to take a shower after seeing them. Rossi blatantly violated his agreements --cleverly, he thinks -- and the claim that the rental of the unit to the "Customer" was the Guaranteed Performance Test appears to be not founded in actual communications. It was not represented as such, it was represented as an opportunity to make money from the unit. It looks like Rossi's argument for estoppel may fall completely on its face. One can see an actual denial in the documents that this was the "test."


    As well, Rossi may have lied to us about the limitations placed by the customer. The exclusion of the IH engineer -- which first happened early on, July 2015 -- was not a matter of the terms of the agreement between JMC and IH. Rossi simply declares it on his own initiative, as if it were his unit and his decision, see Exhibit 19.


    Remember all the claims from Planet Rossi that what is filed in pleadings is attested fact? That was not true. However, if any of the Rossi documents have been forged, and if the IH attorney knows about that, he could be screwed. Just as I assumed that there were no forgeries in the Rossi Complaint attachments -- and I know of none -- I assume that there are no forgeries here, that Rossi wrote those emails.


    Sifferkoll, maybe it's time you sit down and take an honest look at the available information. Rossi is very bad news, for anyone who deals with him, the only company that has escaped harm is Ampenergo, which is an investor in Industrial Heat and which did nothing reprehensible.

    What I wonder about this now is, what Plant did IH get for $1.5 million?
    The older blue container that was shipped, the 50-odd unit reactor group, or the Tiger Plant? Or is the multi-plus-Tigers the Plant?
    Clearly the reactor as last shown is in a much bigger container than the one shipped from Italy.

    • Official Post

    Gosh, what a read! How good?...I canceled my golf game I got so immersed, that is how good. Thank's Siffer for the link.


    Good news, bad news for Rossi supporters:


    The bad: he is a complete sleaze. Manipulative, shameless, and a psychopathic liar. Just no doubt about that. It is all over the document. Not that most of us did not already know that, as his behavior through his JONP has shown for all that cared to notice.


    The good: He may actually have something! Or at least IH never claimed he did not. In fact, they make it a point throughout the document to say that they alone, nor with Rossi assisting, could ever show anything as good as the lowest performance parameter (COP 4). They never say it did not produce overunity. So maybe David Foyt's "rumor", that IH was successful, is right? When I get time, I will round up all the wording.


    Now granted, that was for all but the GPT (which IH refuses to call a real GPT). For the GPT it was simply so "fatally flawed", and I trust Prof Murray on that, along with the obvious shenanigans Rossi pulled to set it up, that no other commentary is required. It was a total sham.

    Mary Yugo,


    May I ask, since you take the position of what can be described as total denial of anything excess heat related to possibly exist, I wonder what is your reasoning for taking this position? I have never read a single supporting statement for LENR/excess heat from you, but you miss no opportunity to be the nay-sayer.


    I figure that you must have some string convictions/arguments as to why. Have you done experiments yourself? Have you found errors in the published papers? What is it? Please tell me, I think it would be very interesting to know.

    @Shane D.


    92. However, after numerous attempts, both with and without Rossi’s
    involvement, Counter-Plaintiffs have been unable, using the transferred E-Cat IP, to replicate the
    results         included in the Evaluation Report purportedly certifying that Validation was achieved
    from April 30 to May 1, 2013, or otherwise generate measureable excess energy.


    emphasis mine

    Quote

    However, if any of the Rossi documents have been forged...

    Why in the world would IH do that? They have all the real ones and I am certain that from them, Rossi's goose is completely cooked.


    Quote

    The good: He may actually have something! Or at least IH never claimed he did not. In fact, they make it a point throughout the document to say that they alone, nor with Rossi assisting, could ever show anything as good as the lowest performance parameter (COP 4). They never say it did not produce overunity. So maybe David Foyt's "rumor", that IH was successful, is right? When I get time, I will round up all the wording.


    You seem never to learn and to be doomed to repeat the same errors over and over and over again. A COP of 4 would be worth almost as as many billions as a COP of 50 and a device with that COP could be marketed immediately as a space heater with billions of potential customers world wide for that alone. Given that they had derived such a thing, even as a crude prototype, from Rossi's work, IH would NEVER have reneged on the $89M. And of course, remember that even a COP of 4 is a huge energy gain. Such a device could without a doubt, with conscientious development, be made self-sustaining. It would take proper insulation, heat exchangers and a control system but losses in such a system should never approach a factor of 2 much less 4. So in effect, the COP would become infinite.


    No, the only rational explanation for IH's actions is that Rossi has nothing and as far as they are concerned, he never had anything.


    VERY IMPORTANT: Note that IH are not asking the court to force Rossi to deliver on his promises. They are asking for him to be PUNISHED FOR FRAUD.

    Quote from Alan Fletcher

    Inexplicable: why Johnson would participate in a fraud. (Share of $89M?)

    Maybe, maybe no. He's Rossi's attorney, and president of Leonardo. I have no idea how much he knows. He may not have realized the implications of what was being done. He may have trusted Rossi to handle everything involved with JM Products. He gets to Answer the counter-complaint. If he has any sense he will simply be honest, admit errors, and negotiate with IH. If he knowingly participated in a fraud, he's completely screwed, he could be disbarred, etc. So one step at a time.


    IH is claiming that JM is a fake chemical products company. That's easily rebutted if it is real. So far, nothing is under oath. I predicted that it was necessary to name Penon and Johnson as counterclaim defendants for legal technical reasons involving subpoenas and depositions. The most serious thing I see is the power production reports. They look very strange. I think this was Johnson simply passing on Rossi information. Fabiani is looking just plain crummy. The IH engineer waves a check at him, we'll pay you if you deliver what you promised, the reports, and Fabiani, it seems, disappears. But, gain, he gets to Answer. If he provides the reports and testifies honestly, he could walk away just fine. Again, if he knowingly participated in a fraud, he is screwed.


    They picked the wrong mark. I notice that Jones Day was already representing IH back in February, and it's obvious that things had broken down with Rossi by then, so Rossi's public claims at the beginning of March that everything was okay was just the Usual Rossi Deception.


    Ah, yes, a tidbit: in the first power production report, the letterhead reads:

    Quote

    J.M. Products Inc.
    "Advanced Derivatives of Johnson Matthew Platinum Sponges"


    That's really funny. http://www.platinum.matthey.co…-of-platinum-group-metals
    Ah, the company name is Johnson Matthey. The term with "Matthew" comes up empty on Google.

    @nuclearNut


    I have been looking at various suggested papers and reports for five years as leisure time and breaks permit. I have never seen anything which is, to me, convincing of excess heat. The low level papers are poorly or not replicated, many are very hard to understand, many use faulty methods, and in general I just steer clear of low level studies in which I have neither interest nor ability. The high power results so far were all fraud. Brillouin is not yet determined but given their written documents and interviews, I am not hopeful. Nanospire are bunch of flaming nuts. Miley has promised endlessly LENR bench top batteries but has never shown a properly done test with a good result. Who would I look at? Why would I do experiments myself? What experiments would you suggest and why? And yes, I have looked at several of the papers Jed suggested over several years and only one remotely impressed me and unfortunately I can not find it again and I am pretty sure it was never replicated. IIRC it involved something like 200W excess heat at a good COP for a very long time but I misplaced the link. And again, it had not been replicated that I could find. So what should I be looking at and why?

    Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    One little piece of business was the "actor." I don't know if Jed had inside information on that,


    I have no such inside information.


    The only information I had was a taste of Rossi's data, as I have described. There isn't much to it. Just the flow rate of 36,000 kw per day (exactly!), the pressure of 0.0 bar, and temperatures which were remarkably stable. I saw a configuration schematic, but that might be incomplete.


    It is surprising how much you can derive from such limited data. However, I am sure that the people at I.H., such as Murray, know far more than I do, and their conclusions are more complete with more solid ground.


    I think they know more than they have revealed in this response.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    92. However, after numerous attempts, both with and without Rossi’s involvement, Counter-Plaintiffs have been unable, using the transferred E-Cat IP, to replicate the results included in the Evaluation Report purportedly certifying that Validation was achieved from April 30 to May 1, 2013, or otherwise generate measureable excess energy.


    You missed the most important qualifier. (Highlighted above for your convenience.)

    Quote from "Abd ul"

    You may not want to admit it, Torkel, but you got that file either from newvortex


    I did admit it exactly that ... and I believe Rossi could be telling the truth in those Exhibits. I do however also know the circumstances not being exactly as described in the counter complaint regarding licensees. There is more to it you know ...


    What I find most interesting and scary is the activities of a certain Joseph Murray. He is a military complex guy activated probably together with or by Apco (McLaughlin is mentioned) last summer. This is where everything changes, probably as a result of the stellar reports IH caught the attention of the establishment. Neither IH or the establishment was ready for industrial scale COP=50 at that time and consequently had to do something about it. This Rossi realized.


    Interesting to note that IH carefully avoids denying excess heat in Rossi tests. They contine to produce FUD of the kind you is a master. Are you sure you did not write it? All the issues presented on the forum is brought up; coinsidence? Lugano, flow meters, etc etc. It smells a carefully executed FUD script ... with Murray as the FUDer boss.?? Leaking small bits here and there. The letter to Penon is a most certainly a fake, you know.


    Worth a note is that Fred Zoepfl (the mad dog from the former ECN dungeon) is close to Murray; both from the DC area and involved in military/politically financed projects. They are both listed in places as working for a 3Phoenix consultancy agency... go figure.


    I believe Zoepfl was activiated by Murray to discredit Rossi about the time when the flow meter letter was crafted.


    Always interesting to follow the timeline... Now there is a goldmine to dig ;)

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