The Industrial Heat Answer

Quote from "Abdulla Apco FUD sub"

I have not received any funds related to Industrial Heat or Rossi v. Darden

I notice that you do not mention Apco here ... This is somewhat interesting since you have been spending so many words downplaying them ... dont you think?

Quote from "Abdulla"

When one is obsessed, the obsession seems like the only possibility

Well, in a quantitative analysis of number of FUD words produced, you Abdulla, have no competition in obsession achieved. Oh, that might not have crossed your mind since you're paid for it... Or, did you mean something else?

Btw, since you did not get it ...

Quote

Sifferkoll is soooo transparent. Does he realize?

Transparence is more or less my trademark...

Well then, why did Darden sign the 2nd amendment? (if he was not going to honor it)

Quote from "Abdulla"

It was a reasonable thing to do, and protected their rights

????

That might be true in the part of the world you honor. I dont know.

But from where I come from it is absolutely clear that the 2nd amendment, signed by Darden and Rossi, was about the GPT and nothing else. The reason for it to exist was that Darden wanted to keep Rossi in the leash, and delay the test. Nothing else.

You trying to justify these malicious actions by IH/Darden makes me wanna puke.

Quote

If I remember correctly Industrial Heat also recently acquired the entire Lenuco patent portfolio.George Miley's Lenuco was about building a palladium-nickel/hydrogen system.

And George Miley has been claiming the production of table top LENR reactors for more than three years now, reactors which consistently and continuously make hundreds of watts of excess power and he has never shown anything in public nor had any credible tests done. Last I remember of him, the discussion was about the results relying on an overstressed lab assistant who probably made many mistakes. Those results he could not display or confirm. The truth of his claims is very VERY doubtful. Darden seems to be collecting nothing but dogs.

Edited to add: Here is a long discussion about Miley and other pretenders to high power LENR -- it's from 2012. What has happened in the four years since? Basically nothing.

http://ecatnews.com/?p=2166

More interesting discussion from the past: http://ecatnews.com/?p=2027&cpage=1 It gives one some perspective. Nothing is happening in LENR. Nothing high power, anyway.

Quote from "Abdulla"

"... that insane rich guy running for president ....."

Oh, I thought it was a she... or?

Btw, I love the Rossi comment that the infinite wisdom of the US people will elect the the best president ever, or something. It's hilarious...

(like go voting between having cholera or gonnorhea as Assange put it ...)

Quote from sifferkoll

"Abdullas APCO subsidiary" wrote:

Oh... But we can be sure Apco is involved at least since july 15.

What we know is that an individual who works at APCO is interested. That does not indicate that the company, APCO, is involved, though they certainly could be.

Quote

And we can be sure that their core business methods includes professional astroturfing.

That is claimed. However, what they do would use a vast array of techniques.
http://www.apcoworldwide.com/ is their web site. I decided to google "APCO astroturfing." The number two hit was .... Sifferkoll's blog.

The number one hit was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…t_of_Sound_Science_Center

Quote

The Advancement of Sound Science Center (TASSC), formerly The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition, is an industry-funded lobby group and crisis management vehicle,[1] and was created in 1993 by Phillip Morris and APCO in response to a 1992 United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) report[2]which identified secondhand smoke as a Group A (i.e. confirmed[3]) human carcinogen.[4] TASSC's stated objectives were to: 1) discredit the EPA report; 2) fight anti-smoking legislation; 3) proactively pass legislation favorable to the tobacco industry. Philip Morris hired APCO Worldwide, a communications consultancy with expertise in crisis management, handling sensitive political issues, lobbying, media relations, coalition building, opinion research, market entry, corporate social responsibility, and online communication. [notes 1] APCO's designed strategies for TASSC aimed at establishing TASSC as "a credible source for reporters when questioning the validity of scientific studies" and to "Encourage the public to question – from the grassroots up – the validity of scientific studies".[5]

So, over 20 years ago, Phillip Morris, a corporation probably worth, I'll guess, $20 billion, is threatened by science and possible legislation as well as public opinion. So they hire APCO. No surprise there. And then TASSC engaged, it's alleged, in "astroturfing." What's that? From the article:

Quote

Astroturfing

This methodology is now called astroturfing -- generally uses so-called "think-tank, and it works through coordinated local activism, "information sharing" and the strategic creation by APCO and its associates of seeded grassroot organizations. Under APCO's advice, TASSC developed local coalitions, making them appear to be indigenous grass root organizations, and used them to influence media, legislators, and the public, and in some cases, to recruited scientists and researchers to support Philip Morris's pro-smoking position. TASSC promoted itself as "a not-for-profit coalition advocating the use of sound science in public policy decision making."
TASSC's links to the tobacco industry remained hidden for decades: APCO's strategy was for TASSC to appear to be an independent national grassroots coalition.[4] To conceal this relationship, TASSC broadened the focus to question the validity of other scientific concerns, notable global warming.

Okay, are there any "grass-roots organizations" relating to LENR that could possibly be APCO fronts? I can't think of one possibility.

The wikipedia article on Astroturfing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

APCO does apparently start "grass roots organizations." Some of that may be pro bono work. However, so far, in LENR, there has been no expertise applied to create such.

Industrial Heat, however, may be looking forward to, say, governmental involvement, and making connections with APCO could make sense. This is way premature at this point. What I strongly suspect, for reasons I've given, is that the APCO contact is personally interested in LENR. The visit to Florida, as I wrote before, makes no business sense, but it would make personal sense. McLaughlin was curious, and Darden was willing to accommodate him. Creating personal connections is how people function on Darden's level.

Quote

And we can be sure they would not be involved unless their core competencies are needed...

Astroturfing would not be their "core competency." And APCO is not necessarily involved as a company, not yet.

Quote

And finally, we can be sure they are not involved unless the agenda suits the establishment. (Not sure.... Have a look at their network of high end politicians and bankers...)

Oh. The establishment. Speaking. What can we do for you, sir? We are here for you. A pleasure to serve.

Honestly, in my training -- yes, I'm trained -- I worked with one man who had Obama's ear. I knew people who had started actual grass-roots organizations that went on to transform society. With one man I knew, the results are well-known. He isn't. He simply saw what needed to be done to create transformation, and did it, and it worked.

So I am working to shift the mainstream perception of LENR, because the real research needs, not millions, but billions. Private investment will not be enough. To make that happen will take millions to start, carefully spent. And it appears that this is happening, and that Industrial Heat is supporting it.

The blogs have very little to do with this. I was invited, in 2010, to join the CMNS mailing list, where the real researchers communicate, or they communicate directly or through scientific papers. Torkel, you have no clue, living in a fog of your own imagination, dwelling under a bridge. You really ought to get out.

Sifferkoll is coming from a world view that is profoundly suspicious of "the establishment." This is, practically by definition, a position that disempowers. To be successful in social transformation, one must connect with what already exists, what is "established," not make it all wrong and evil. Revolutions that do identify the status quo as evil, if they manage to succeed, typically replace it with what's worse. They look like they are moving forward, but actually can set a society back a long way.

Quote from "Abd"

Sifferkoll is coming from a world view that is profoundly suspicious of "the establishment." This is, practically by definition, a position that disempowers. To be successful in social transformation, one must connect with what already exists, what is "established," not make it all wrong and evil. Revolutions that do identify the status quo as evil, if they manage to succeed, typically replace it with what's worse. They look like they are moving forward, but actually can set a society back a long way.

Now we are getting somewhere!

My favoute books on the theme are "The Big Short" by Michael Lewis and "Antifragile" by Nicholas Taleb.

It is not about revolution the way you think. It is about decentralisation of power. Problem is, those who have the centralized power (establishment) will not surrender it freely, so they fight to keep it. It is not done in any well organized coordinated fashion, but out of individual egos defending individual privileges, etc. And a lot of envy, and some hate.

Social transformation is continous and slow exactly the way you say, but that kind of transformation does so far only lead to more centralized power. Real change comes from black swans. Sometimes they are contained like the mortage crisis, and only ordinary people pays, and the banks keeps going, even more powerful then before ... But now and then there comes along real black swans, and LENR has the potential to be one, disrupting everything - starting with water, food and shelter for everyone.

LENR also means decentralization of power (not only Watts). This is a threat to the establishment because their power is dependent on control over energy (and information). And I believe, that as an individual, this is not to your advantage.

So, no. Working together with the establishment is not the way to go. This is what grassroots is all about. And that is the reason for Apco success and involvement. Controlling grassroots is the best way to defend againt change for the the establishment (which is not a single entity, but a collection of individual unearned privileges). You need to leave your marxist/authoritarian/islamist background to understand this though.

Quote

So I am working to shift the mainstream perception of LENR, because the real research needs

No. The change will come from individual inventors and entrepreneaurs. As always. Established institutions has no incentives for change. Ask the hot fusionists...

Quote

... The blogs have very little to do with this

So, how is that working for you Abd? You are probably to old. Blogs have everything to do with it. And social media in general. Why do you think NSA etc are going nuts trying to watch and control everything; every single transaction of information we make... This is Apco business, why dont you get it? Or are you only faking not to understand? Could be I guess.

Quote

Honestly, in my training -- yes, I'm trained -- I worked with one man who had Obama's ear.

I do not know what to make of this. Trained in what? Speedwriting.... Maybe the conclusion is that you confess working from inside the establishment, or on behalf of someone who has some unearned privilege to protect. That would explain your actions here I suppose.

Quote from "Apco FUD by Abd"

What I strongly suspect, for reasons I've given, is that the APCO contact is personally interested in LENR. The visit to Florida, as I wrote before, makes no business sense, but it would make personal sense. McLaughlin was curious, and Darden was willing to accommodate him. Creating personal connections is how people function on Darden's level.

This is rediculous. McLaughlin is the same guy cc'd. He is the Apco op. commissioned to run the IH account. He wrote the FUD press release in March. This is what these guys do. He is not curious. He has a goal, which is partly to bill IH but mostly to work according the the Apco network (politicians and bankers) agenda. Remember, this happened shortly after the first quarterly ERV and shortly before the DoD Murray inception. It makes perfect sense.

Quote from "Renzzzzzie"

In my opinion,

Yes Renzzzzzzie, that is your XXXXXXX "opinion", nothing else.

It appears necessary to drive a stake through the heart of this beast. This part of the story I have not seen explained before.

Quote from sifferkoll

Well then, why did Darden sign the 2nd amendment? (if he was not going to honor it).

He honored it. Rossi did not follow it. Read the effing record! Rossi lied about the reason for moving the Plant to Florida. Most likely, the "customer" was completely fake. However, suppose the customer was not fake. What happened, then, to the supposed urgent need of the customer for a megawatt of power? No, you actually said it, Torkel: the purpose of the move was to set up the GPT. But Rossi did not tell them that and did not get their agreement to it. He did not follow the terms of the Second Amendment. Instead, he created an excuse that allowed him to set up something that looked like the GPT, so he could then, with a straight face, in court, claim it was the GPT. It's not going to work.

Quote

"Abdulla" wrote:

????

That might be true in the part of the world you honor. I dont know.

Apparently Sifferkoll has never read the original Agreement carefully, instead everything is only understood through his shit-colored glasses.

The original Agreement provided for delivery of the Unit to Industrial Heat, with the GPT 400 days to begin immediately on delivery, requiring performance on 350 days out of 400.
See Exhibit B attached to the original Complaint, section 5.

When that was written, Rossi was not thinking about logistics, obviously. He had never set up an installation like that.

For whatever reason, this did not work! The Second Amendment is actually undated -- another crazy omission -- but it was clearly written to be executed in October, 2013. The delivery of the Unit to IH was "In or around August 2013. "(One would think the actual date was known, since it was important!) By the time of the Second Amendment, the time was expiring for the test and may already have expired (i.e., there was a possible delay of 50 days maximum.)

Quote

But from where I come from it is absolutely clear that the 2nd amendment, signed by Darden and Rossi, was about the GPT and nothing else.[.quote]
It was. So?

At this point, without the Second Amendment, Rossi was screwed. The GPT had become (or was becoming shortly) impossible. Imputing that motive to Darden is pure paranoid speculation. Rossi needed that Amendment or he was screwed. IH wanted his cooperation in getting the IP to work. Besides, that was merely an error in writing the Agreement, and the substance would allow postponement, and, in fact, as long as Rossi wanted! It appears that it was Rossi who delayed the test, not Darden and IH. IH was protected by the requirement for the written agreement of all parties to the starting date. Rossi probably used that to delay the test, in fact. IH, at least according to Dewey, was ready to go ahead at their facility, it was Rossi who refused.

[quote]You trying to justify these malicious actions by IH/Darden makes me wanna puke.

What "malicious action"? Allowing Rossi to do what he wanted to do? Agreeing to postpone the GPT to a time to be determined? Allowing the plant to be used for a fake "customer"? Trusting Rossi's friends Fabiani and Penon? Not exploding when Rossi refused IH representative admission to their own plant?

And holding Rossi to account for his promises? Malicious? Yeah, in Sifferkoll's world, anyone "establishment" is malicious, responsible for all the evils of the world, and if they hold anyone to account, they are horrible, unworthy of the oxygen they use. And if anyone points out Sifferkoll's insanity, they are obviously on the APCO payroll.

Yeah, right.

Go ahead, puke. Puke a lot, you have swallowed a lot.

Quote from "Renzzzzz"

You are really on the defense the last day or so lol...gee I wonder why.

Well, I guess you wish that to be the truth. To me it's more of an inspirational thing. This CounterFUD doc is as I said a goldmine of info to dig. Hard to keep the eyes away, agree on that. The FUD engines are somewhat hypnotic...

Quote from IH Fanboy

Now, IH have alleged that Rossi outright told them it was Johnson Matthey. But there is no evidence provided to go along with that assertion.

In an Answer, just as in a Complaint, it is enough to make the assertion. If necessary. At trial, those who heard Rossi or Johnson say this will testify, under oath, as to what they heard, and they can be cross-examined. This is relevant in the cross-complaint against Johnson, only. If there are conflicting accounts, the jury will decide where to place weight. In a civil case, "proof" is not necessary, the issue is the preponderance of the evidence.

So ... consider this: Johnson and Rossi are asked if they said that. Suppose they say something like, "No, we said nothing of the kind." Well, then, suppose it turns out that the office in Raleigh is bugged. All conversations are recorded, and ... they pull out the tape, which is entered into evidence. Look, if you are ever testifying in court, it's a really bad idea to commit perjury, even if you think, "They will never know, they can't prove it!" It can convert some relatively small loss into a major crime. "It's the cover-up, stupid!"

Rossi succeeded as long as he did because he was able to avoid being called to account. He could just stonewall, walk away from an agreement, lie with impunity, and most of it wasn't actionable. Until he signed that Agreement and accepted the money from IH. And this continued for four years because IH actually was an angel investor, willing to go to extraordinary lengths to accommodate an eccentric investor.

But not to accommodate a fraud

Advice: don't fuck with angels. Bad karma.

Quote from "Abdulla"

It appears necessary to drive a stake through the heart of this beast.
... bla bla bla ...
And if anyone points out Sifferkoll's insanity, they are obviously on the APCO payroll.Yeah, right.Go ahead, puke. Puke a lot, you have swallowed a lot.

Wow! Now we are getting down to business... "stake through the heart" and another psychiatric diagnosis from the hip ... that is so nice of you... Suits your profile I guess. Nice. Really nice.

And no, Darden did not honor his signature on the 2nd amendment. He blatantly deny its existence in the counterFUD. He is a douchebag, and so are you (as you proved once more above)