Hydrogen couln't be essential ?

Quote from Alan Smith

You aren't going to get a full SIMS/TOF from me - too expensive to undertake lightly.

I completely agree. There are much more useful reactions we should investigate. Do You really expect RF ? What frequency?

IMO the cold fusion should be hearable in audiospectrum as a noise. The occasional RF emissions are just a byproduct of localized thermal microexplosions and no deep theory is behind it.

If hydrogen is not required would not this mean that theories focusing on it are either wrong or incomplete? Which theories do not rule out anomalous results with gases different than hydrogen? Or to put it differently, which theories describe special (exotic) states of matter possibly involved with LENR that are not exclusive to hydrogen and its isotopes?

Quote from gameover

If hydrogen is not required would not this mean that theories focusing on it are either wrong or incomplete? Which theories do not rule out anomalous results with gases different than hydrogen? Or to put it differently, which theories describe special (exotic) states of matter possibly involved with LENR that are not exclusive to hydrogen and its isotopes?

Yury Bazhutov and John Fisher both propose theories where the role of deuterium is explained but is not essential.

If the Widom-Larsen model is correct and heavy electrons can form then they will be captured by other natural isotopes in addition to hydrogen (not necessarily gasses).

/* If hydrogen is not required would not this mean that theories focusing on it are either wrong or incomplete? */

IMO the LENR have only low-dimensional geometry of nuclear collisions in common - everything else can differ from reaction to reaction. The models involving hydrogen may be still relevant for particular systems, they just cannot be generalized so easily.

David Fojt,

You mention rare (noble) gases. I swear I recall reading very recently in a different blog about them being positively involved with heating anomalies during the recombination of small amounts oxygen and hydrogen over small metal particles, so not the typical LENR experiment.

http://link.springer.com/artic…s10450-012-9445-8#/page-1

Forgot to add this from the above link:

"The results revealed an important role of argon in increasing the intensity of atomic hydrogen-oxygen reactions to a level several times higher than the heat of water formation from molecular hydrogen and oxygen."

Quote from gameover

You mention rare (noble) gases.

R. Mills postulated a long time ago that Ar is catalyzing H* "LENR". He also wrote more tan 20 papers about it.

Most of them were published in the "international journal of hydrogen energy "! Some can be found on his homepage.

/* R. Mills postulated a long time ago that Ar is catalyzing H* "LENR". */

Really? My impression is, R. Mills always denied the LENR on behalf of his hydrino theory.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Really? My impression is, R. Mills always denied the LENR on behalf of his hydrino theory.

Therefor I used "" around LENR... What he thinks and what happens in reality are two different things...

But, may be there is a tiny sub-branch of LENR, just working with H*, somewhere deep out in space.

Nevertheless: The papers describe a path from H ->H*, catalysed by Ar, that cause a LENR reaction. Perls are perls, even if they a covered by horse manure...

Would Mills explain excess heat results or odd anomalies with H2+O2 recombination experiments in an inert atmosphere, or the combustion of small metal particles (as with thermite experiments) or carbon in air (as possibly with that other experiment I previously linked)? Isn't his theory mostly about hydrogen and hydrinos?

It seems to me that more generally speaking a common theme is the formation of strong chemical bonds under special conditions, which may include the presence of inert and nobel gases in the environment as Mills states, but also that it may not be just limited or related to the 2H->H2 reaction as in typical LENR experiments.

IMO we shouldn't extrapolate very much from primitive & short experiment, consisting of brief heating of piece of graphite on air. Authors admitted, that the graphite partially burned during it and that their method of heat measurement is not particularly exact. There is no question, that many transmutations don't involve the hydrogen and I even don't see any reason, why they should do. After all, the first transmutations observed (Wendt & Irion, Nagaoka) also didn't involve hydrogen.

Quote from gameover

If hydrogen is not required would not this mean that theories focusing on it are either wrong or incomplete? Which theories do not rule out anomalous results with gases different than hydrogen? Or to put it differently, which theories describe special (exotic) states of matter possibly involved with LENR that are not exclusive to hydrogen and its isotopes?

It's not necessary to assume that a single process is at work in LENR. Obviously for economy of explanation one would prefer that there be only one process. But I think the evidence points in the other direction — there are multiple processes at work. If this is true, the implication is that you can't necessarily rule out one LENR theory because it doesn't deal with the specific case you're looking at.

In addition to the LENR theories Hermes points to, my own hunch is that LENR involves inducing alpha decays, beta decays/EC and fissions in various isotopes (not necessarily heavy ones), and that deuterium and hydrogen may play catalytic roles but are not required. Whose theory is this? Not mine, I suppose. I am proceeding from this description from 1993 and assuming that the author's conclusion about modifying decay rates is too pessimistic (there is also this even earlier patent), and a lot of LENR researches such as Mizuno, Saavatimova, Cravens and others have reported seeing something like this. I am assuming no fusion of hydrogen or deuterium as a significant process.

Quote from gameover

Isn't his [Mills's] theory mostly about hydrogen and hydrinos?

Robin van Spaandonk on Vortex has discussed other shrinking atoms, e.g., lithium, in the context of Mills's theory, and this may go back to Mills himself.

Quote from gameover

If hydrogen is not required would not this mean that theories focusing on it are either wrong or incomplete? Which theories do not rule out anomalous results with gases different than hydrogen? Or to put it differently, which theories describe special (exotic) states of matter possibly involved with LENR that are not exclusive to hydrogen and its isotopes?

There are experiments that deal with electrical discharge that do not involve hydrogn that show transmutation. They are Proton21 and Ken Shoulders spark EV experiments.

The Papp engine used coulomb exposition of noble gases to separate charge.

There are also the resonant microwave experiments of Egely that can use just about anything, See "Red Sludge" in figure 3.

http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Nano-dust-Fusion.pdf

LENR is an electromagnetic phenomena involving charge separation and the production of monopole magnetism usually by spin waves on the surface of hydrides.

Cravens and Letts produce the reaction using SmCo5 magnet dust. This magnet type produces spin orientation in an asymptotic direction.

See
http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/NIWeekCravens.pdf

I have posited that the LENR effect is an extremely strong electromagnetic screening of both the strong and the weak force I call the GUT theory meaning Grand Unification theory where the forces of nature begin to converge when the Electromagnetic force grows strong.

I reference nanoplasmonic based experiments here to show how the confinement of electrons on the surface of gold nanoparticles: a nanoplasmonic mechanism can change the half-life of U232 from 69 years to 6 microseconds. It also causes thorium to fission without neutrons.(Muon fission)

See references:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Farxiv.org%2Fpdf%2F1112.6276&ei=nI6UUeG1Fq-N0QGypIAg&usg=AFQjCNFB59F1wkDv-NzeYg5TpnyZV1kpKQ&sig2=fhdWJ_enNKlLA4HboFBTUA&bvm=bv.46471029,d.dmQ

Experiments showing the same mechanism as listed below:

"Laser-induced synthesis and decay of Tritium under exposure of solid targets in heavy water"

http://arxiv.org/abs/1306.0830

Initiation of nuclear reactions under laser irradiation of Au nanoparticles in the presence of Thorium aqua ions

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0906/0906.4268.pdf

I am interested in how rapid if not almost instantaneous radioactive stabilization of radioactive isotopes occurs and only stable isotopes result from nuclear reactions caused by this nanoplasmonic based effect. I am impressed by the possible role of negative vacuum energy in this regard as described in the paper

“Effects of Vacuum Fluctuation Suppression on Atomic Decay Rates”.

At: http://arxiv.org/pdf/0907.1638v1.pdf

In explanation from these experiments, nano geometry of particles converts light energy from the laser into vortex motion of electrons/light hydrids(polaritons) in a nanoplasmonic “Dark Mode” soliton produced on the surface of the gold nanoparticles. Without the gold nanoparticles, laser light alone is ineffectual in producing these effects in this type of experiment.

By the way, Henry is downvoting all my posts these days because I must be saying something too compelling for him to bear. So sorry Henry and others, I won't stop the pursuit of truth.

Quote from Eric Walker

Robin van Spaandonk on Vortex has discussed other shrinking atoms, e.g., lithium, in the context of Mills's theory, and this may go back to Mills himself.

R. Mills says that the SunCell reaction is driven by the HOH molecule that I beleive in the water crystal patented by Mark LeClair.

http://www.blacklightpower.com…s/Cont_EUV_HOH-031215.pdf

Quote

Of the two possible catalysts, 3 H and HOH, the latter catalyst is more likely to be active in the H pinch plasma based on the behavior with oxide-coated electrodes and the consideration of the intensity profile of the multi-body reaction required during 3 H catalysis. The HOH catalyst was further shown to give EUV radiation of the same nature by igniting a solid fuel comprising a source of H and HOH catalyst by passing a low voltage, high current through the fuel to produce explosive plasma.

Mills also states that without oxygen in a special form, the SunCell does not fire off. These says to me that the reaction is based on water.

/* There are also the resonant microwave experiments of Egely that can use just about anything, See "Red Sludge" in figure 3.
egely.hu/letoltes/Nano-dust-Fusion.pdf */

It's well known that the annealed graphite becomes ferromagnetic - it cannot serve as an evidence of its transmutation into iron or whatever else element

Quote from Zephir_AWT

/* There are also the resonant microwave experiments of Egely that can use just about anything, See "Red Sludge" in figure 3.
egely.hu/letoltes/Nano-dust-Fusion.pdf */

It's well known that the annealed graphite becomes ferromagnetic - it cannot serve as an evidence of its transmutation into iron or whatever else element

You did not look at table 3 in the reference.

Table 3 is about red sludge not graphite. You really don't bother with details, do you?

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Table 3 is about red sludge not graphite. You really don't bother with details, do you?

I did not restrict the discussion to any one element. If you read that restriction, you are delusional.