Flow meter used in 1-MW test

    20 days @ 1 Mwh/h, 24 hours /day
    11 days @ 750 kWhIh, 24 hours/day ( upon our request the power has been reduced due to
    our technical problems)


    It has nothing to do with the Widom Larsen theory ( which I fully respect ).
    1/3 of the mass that reacts that way ( the effect is much more complex), therefore extremely small amounts…
    reactions within the E-Cats are well known ( we just do not publish them for confidentiality issues)
    1 gram of matter ( indipendently from the atom it belongs to) is equal to 23 x 10^6 kWh, from the equation E = mc^2 ( Einstein).
    Lasers have a very low efficiency ( about 5%).
    our reactions are too slow to be applicable to a weapon ( luckily).
    in these days ( also today, even if it is Sunday) we are working on the hot cat
    also to compensate the loss of convective energy, mainly ( conuctive is poor)
    as if there was any necessity, that when the Snake ( or, better, the puppet Snake) writes,
    the Hot Cat ( that is so far a prototype under R&D, not a product yet) up to 1050 °C
    because I have been advised ( see the comment of Monti) that it has been misunderstood
    we consume chemical energy and produce nuclear energy ( E=mc^2)
    We are working with the Hot Cat ( the E-Cat at high temperature) since May 2012
    the E-Cat must give mechanical energy to an interface system ( to be defined) that can tranmit the mechanical energy
    The release of hydrogen is not Dangerous because the amount is minimal ( grams).
    making 2 separated apparatuses in the same house: mouse ( activator) and Cat.
    while a domestic plant can be bought and operated by persons that are not even supposed to read ( let alone study) the instructions manual.
    Some inspiration, much perspiration ( courtesy of Edison).
    Anyway that photo ( that has been published without our authorization, and we do not know how it has been leaked) is referred to a destructive test
    the Mouse runs 35 ( thirtyfive) % of the time, the E-Cat runs 65 % of the time.
    Activator has a COP that allows to produce energy equal or more ( even if slightly) to the energy consumed
    At last I know who paid for the ( high) expenses of the test
    some are clearly inviting to kill me ( if so, at last I will be able to rest, after working 16 hours per day!),
    Obviously I cannot take off the time ( 16 hours per day) that I have to dedicate to my work
    We have not time to lose with the imbeciles ( from the latin “imbacula”, not an offense)
    Other nuclear reactions need millions Celsius ( fusion) and emit radiations in the order of MeVs, we emit 50-100 keVs ( inside the reactor).
    a test that did not go well ” ( yes, is true: one year ago I made a test in Uppsala
    or like ” 13 years ago ( !!!) LTI made a contract
    an E-Cat module, entirely produced by our USA Partner in the new factory ( a magnificence), charged with the charge made by the Partner’s CEO
    It is more easy for a camel to pass through a needle eye than for an E-Cat be certified to be used on a balloon ( so far and for the next 20 years).
    All the comments reporting the names of our competitors ( any of them) are spammed.
    Here have named my process the “Rossi Effect” referring to the collective phenomenon ( whose mechanism has now been completely understood).
    I saw a book, a small book, with a blue cover, very anonimous to look at, with a title: ” Enrico Fermi: Particelle elementari” ( elementary particles).
    melting some Ni grains using a battery of 4 V as an energy source. I calculated ( miscalculated?) a COP 3.
    Universe is a wonderful and ( relatively) free nuclear laboratory
    In these very days ( also during Christmas) the Hot Cat is working in our USA factory
    The apparatus is made by two well separated components, the activator ( “mouse”) and the energy catalyzar ( “Cat”).
    engineers will design the final version of the control system for the new limits of the temperature of the high temperature E-Cats ( Hot Cats).
    Presently our E-Cat is working ( also right now, while I am writing this comment) at a temp of 1,100 Celsius, very stable.
    we have not been able to stop the raise of the temperature ( we arrived on purpose to that level, because we wanted to study this kind of situation).
    has calculated that the increase of temperature ( from 1 000 Celsius to 2,000 Celsius in about 10 seconds)
    you see in the photo ( after 1 second) becoming totally white-blue in the following 9 seconds
    and then an explosion and the ceramic inside ( which is a ceramic that melts at 2,000 Celsius) turned into a red, brilliant powder
    E-Cat is an energy generator ( Thermal and electric).
    the effect ( if real) is totally independent and insulated from the control box, which is external
    LOCAL Symmetries ( separately, at every point) can produce connection fields that generate Nature’s forces.
    And here is the answer to your titanically stupid statement ( I know, you are not the author of the titanic stupidity
    BASED ON THE KIRCHHOFF LAW ( ALSO CALLED KICHHOFF JUNCTION RULE) , WE CAN MAKE THE DEDUCTION THAT THE CURRENT
    Officially every reactor is listed by a matrix ( like EC 1, EC 2,…) but they preferred give real names, for fun
    So it is not rare hear some of the Team say “how’s going Mothersucker?” and the answer ( presently) “not bad”
    wherein are written the MWh he consumes per month ( the electricity source that feeds the plant has been insulated from other loads)
    the Customer is measuring independently the energy that arrives to his plant, both with gauges and ( more important) with the operation
    We lost the 25% of the production until 4 p.m. ( a couple of hours ago), when the reactor has been put again at work
    The new Hot Cat ( M.me Curie) will be put again in operation tomorrow morning
    he just wants to measure how much thermal energy we deliver ( he just reads his gauges) and at the end of each month he sends us a report

    • Official Post
    Quote from JedRothwell

    If scientists always dismissed claims with the preponderance of evidence against them, a large fraction of discoveries and breakthroughs in history would have been rejected. Many were rejected at first, some for years. So what you say is factually wrong, unscientific, and it would impede progress. Your mantra here is, in fact, the opposite of how science is supposed to work. When evidence conflicts, we do not hold a popularity contest. We look for new evidence, or we reserve judgement. We make no decision either way. You seem to be constitutionally incapable of doing that. You have some built-in urge to rush to judgement and jump to the first conclusion you can, especially a negative conclusion. You are the opposite of a skeptic in the true sense of the word "skeptic." You are desperate to believe.




    I will add that it is also opposite to Venture Capitalism and basically to entrepreneur spirit.


    Let us assume IH is exact in it's claims and they are sincere VC (my basic position, which like my former support to Rossi is reversible).


    It seems IH estimate the value of E-cat technology to 1Bn$ in their pocket, from how they valued their Serie A shares (5% capital at 50Mn$).
    First way is to consider they estimate it is the value of benefit estimated. This does not look huge, but this is a competitive market to be, and you cannot expect to make a monopoly and have unreasonable price.


    in that case investing 10Mn$ is rational if you estimate E-cat have 99% chance of failing one way or another. Sorry @Mary Yugo you cannot be a VC.
    With the data they had whan paying, (a short test, some meeting, knowledge of LENR science, Rossi's reputation that Mary & Wikipedia spread) they paid.


    Paying 100Mn$ would say you estimate there is less than 90% chance it fails miserably. fter reading the ERV report and considering the intermediate reports of their experts, they refused to pay.


    Now re reading the pricing of the share one can estimate that the pricing integrate already the risk. it is in fact more rational.
    When the A shares where priced, with E-cat and few other scientists in their portfolio, they estimated the valuation was 1Bn$.


    The market is related to energy market which is 7Tn$, and some estimate cost reduction will be x10, thus 700Tn$, but IH only own half of the planet (US China Russia), and E-cat only applies to industrial heat production at short term... let us say it is only 100Bn$ market they can access, with temporary monopoly for few years, until margin are low...


    investing 10Mn$ is reasonable if there is 99.99% chance E-cat fails miserably. with the few data they had few years ago, they paid.


    now investing 100Mn$ assume only 99.9% chance of failing miserably, and they did not pay.


    of course there is risk aversion which probably make people refuse to invest if there is no 10x margin between expectation and investment.


    note that a bit off-topic, this way of mind, even using the same math, is the opposite to usual finance behavior, and many risk-management behavior laymen used when crossing the road.
    Usually in finance you put huge amount of money at very improbable risk, to earn a tiny margin most of the time However those who decide to take those badly modeled risk (subprime, operational risk, CDS) often don't individually play with their own bones. they, like VC, only risk to lose what their personal invested, career and time, not the Tn$ owned by pensionner and other investors.
    When crossing the street, at least in France, most people behave that way, taking the risk to be killed definitively, or handicapped, just to win few seconds, they don't really need.


    VCs (and entrepreneurs of any kind) are in fact more rational than most of us. They take risk, but they take bounded risk, facing unbounded expectations. We mostly do the opposite when we think we are cautious.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    You are confused. First, that was Johnson, not Penon. Second, he is reporting megawatt-hours, not the flow rate. The flow rate might remain at 36,000 kg/day while megawatt-hours change. If megawatt hours increase, the temperature goes up.



    I guess the only one that's confused is You. The official statement (E18) of IH has been a shot in Your right foot...


    Just one hint. Heat/Steam have a direct linear dependence.


    But if You like it that much, You can continue to lie. But the damned Planet Rossi reported different things (27m3 steam for many days) - may be they are lying too.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Back off Wyttenbach, I am running out of green ink. No calling 'liar' to anyone here, please. It does the forum no good.


    Sorry: But it's so cheap and obvious. For me provable wrong FUD is the worst action to destroy a free worlds societity. IH has enterd in court a document (Exhibit 18) which clearly states, that they knew the flow was 27m3 for far more than 30 days.


    Thus can You please remove all post's which say something else??

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    Just one hint. Heat/Steam have a direct linear dependence.


    Steam can have varying amounts of enthalpy.


    In any case, Penon reported exactly 36,000 kg of water every day, and he reported nearly the same energy every day, including days when Rossi said in his blog that the machine was turned off. Quoting the I.H. Answer:


    Quote

    "Penon further knowingly relied on flawed or fabricated data collections in his supposed evaluation of the Plant’s performance. For example, Leonardo and Rossi have admitted (on their internet blog postings) that there were days when portions of the Plant were not operating, but Penon in his final report does not report any material decrease in output of the Plant on those days. Rather, he makes the (inexplicable) claim in his final report that on these days the Plant’s performance either did not change or somehow even increased."

    Quote from LENR Calender

    Is it correct to interpret that a reading of 36 means the flow was supposed to be between 36,000 and 36,999 kg?


    The meter is like an analogue odometer. So 36999 would be visually indistinguishable from 37000. In fact, it would say "36" or "37" and could be part way anywhere between.
    But it wouldn't even say "36" or "37", it would say on some random day about half way into the test "54029" or "54030", then the next day it would say "54065" or "54066", or anywhere in between.


    Did you not see the photo of the display?

    Quote from LENR Calender

    Is it correct to interpret that a reading of 36 means the flow was supposed to be between 36,000 and 36,999 kg?


    Yes, BUT, HOWEVER, a flow meter is not reset every day. So, suppose it was exactly 100,000 yesterday, and today 36,999 is added. It would read 136,000. Suppose the flow was incredibly precise and somehow it added the same amount tomorrow. That would be 173,998, which would show up as 173,000, an apparent increase of 37,000.


    In other words, unless the flow was precisely 36,000 to with a fraction of a liter per day, to within a second per day, from time to time you would see an increase of only 35,000, and later 37,000 to make for that. Also, you would have to read the meter at precisely the same time every day, including weekends and holidays. (All the data in the test was read manually, as far as I know. The flow meter is not electronic.)


    As I noted, when the time changes to daylight saving time, the total flow would be 1/24 smaller.


    Another obvious problem with both the flow and temperature reading is that they were recorded as normal, with ~1 MW of heat, even on days when Rossi reported the machine was shut down, as I noted above.

    Thanks for the responses.


    I would assume that the person reading the meter would write down the cumulative amount and time of reading, as opposed to making a calculation on the spot.


    Jed Rothwell and Paradigmnoia, you seem to have two different interpretations. I think Para might be correct, 173,998 would show up as 174 and not 173.


    But I agree with Jed, if the flow was actually constantly 36,050, after 15- 20 days you would have a 37 reading.

    What everyone seems to forget is that the meter is designed to pulse an electric signal every 100 m^3 (~100 L).
    So it should be making 360 pulses a day at 36 m^3 per day flow.
    So the uncertainty should be in 100 L increments, not 1000 L increments, if proper recording measures were performed.


    And then, one would have corroborating evidence of the meter readings. One electronic, the other visual. Each backing the other up.

    Quote from LENR Calender

    Jed Rothwell and Paradigmnoia, you seem to have two different interpretations. I think Para might be correct, 173,998 would show up as 174 and not 173.


    This is a old fashioned analog device. It don't roll over until it rolls. It is like an analog car odometer. When they show several nines the wheels slowly roll together. What a thrill!


    I ask you, where is the fun in watching a digital car odometer roll over from 9,999 to 10,000?


    I would imagine actual values such as 173,998 would come out all over the map, because it is not designed to measure them, the flow is too slow, and if we believe Penon, the pressure is too low. The meter will be reporting all kinds of strange stuff. Plus, as noted, the pipe was half full of water.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    that was Johnson, not Penon



    Well, Johnson may have signed the paper.


    It was his kid brother, Matthew. Known as Johnson Matthew. A real troublemaker! Exhibit 28 is a Summons to Henry W. Johnson telling him they are going sic the fees on him:


    "A lawsuit has been filed against defendant Industrial Heat, LLC et al., who as third-party plaintiff is making
    this claim against you to pay part or all of what the defendant may owe to the plaintiff Andrea Rossi, et al."


    He should pass this on to Matthew.

    Learn all about mechanical counters here. Water meter at about 2:00 .
    Note that only the second digit and up (from the right side of the counter, heading left), "click", due to the Geneva movement.
    The first digit rolls smoothly.


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    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    Learn all about mechanical counters here. Water meter at about 2:00


    That's wonderful! I think what you are saying is the second 9 from the left starts to move sometimes when rightmost one is at 8 or 9.


    I agree with the narrator that these are more interesting than LCD displays.


    Here's what looks really great: Nixie tube counters.

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