So he was their contracted employee.
My guess is that he was an independent contractor hired by Leonardo/IH 50/50 (and that goes along with what others have said). I would be surprised if Penon was an employee of either company.
Flow meter used in 1-MW test
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Are you suggesting that the rust stain was produced by flowing water?
The stain was left in the pipe because the pipe was not full. It was like a ring in a dirty bathtub. It showed the high water mark.Murray indicates they looked at the stains on the flowmeter itself:
"The visible iron stain waterline marks on the static vanes indicate that the pipe was not continuously full of liquid, as required by the manufacturer’s specifications, but rather had a substantial portion free of liquid."
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IHFB,
You may be right. This is the only thing I see about their relationship:
"Not surprisingly, since the day he left Florida in February 2016, Penon has refused to discuss his measurements, his measurement plan and design, or his report with Counter-Plaintiffs (though he has requested that Counter-Plaintiffs pay him for his work)"
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Didn't you recently say that we now have access to all of the information that you had access to?
I did not mean that in the literal sense. I meant you can recreate a close facsimile of the data with just 3 numbers, two of them the same for every day:Flow rate: 36,000 kg (same every day)
Pressure 0.0 bar (same every day)
Temperature: 102 deg C, plus or minus 2 or 3 deg C.Make a table with dates on the Y axis, and fill in the three columns with those numbers. Bingo, you will see what I saw. You can use a random number generator for the temperature, or you can just do what Penon did when he got tired of stuffing fake data into the table. He repeated the temperatures for several days in a row.
Also, the reservoir temperature is 60 deg C, recorded once.
For no particular reason, Penon subtracted 10% from the flow rate, making it 32,400 kg, every day. Do that if you like.
Look at that table, and you will see as much as I saw. The actual values do not matter. Your simulated data will be as valid as Penon's. As I.H. explained in their Answer:
"Penon further knowingly relied on flawed or fabricated data collections in his supposed evaluation of the Plant’s performance. For example, Leonardo and Rossi have admitted (on their internet blog postings) that there were days when portions of the Plant were not operating, but Penon in his final report does not report any material decrease in output of the Plant on those days. Rather, he makes the (inexplicable) claim in his final report that on these days the Plant’s performance either did not change or somehow even increased."
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The stain was left in the pipe because the pipe was not full. It was like a ring in a dirty bathtub. It showed the high water mark.
Murray indicates they looked at the stains on the flowmeter itself:
"The visible iron stain waterline marks on the static vanes indicate that the pipe was not continuously full of liquid, as required by the manufacturer’s specifications, but rather had a substantial portion free of liquid."
So you do believe the corrosion stain was formed by flowing water?
Like I've said before, I'm no plumber. But I'm pretty sure constantly flowing water doesn't form rust lines. Standing water would, which means that at some point, there was probably standing water.
After about a 1 minute search, I started finding references supporting my hunch. Here is one, for example:
"An efficient circulation is also a means of preventing rusting, as it hinders the formation of air bubbles on the shell, which if they remain clinging to it, cause rusting."
https://books.google.com/books?id=HYpVAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA4-PA17&lpg=RA4-PA17&dq=can+constant+water+flow+prevent+rust+in+pipes?&source=bl&ots=nFiFfix8oX&sig=wqtOjtie-Ttjx-JB2Fs5hTlmiac&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCssGP77fOAhVX6WMKHXixAyY4ChDoAQg7MAc#v=onepage&q=can constant water flow prevent rust in pipes%3F&f=false
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So you do believe the corrosion stain was formed by flowing water?
I believe stains are left on the top of flowing water, and other discoloration is below the waterline. This is often seen after a flood, for example. You can tell how high the flood waters reached by the stains left on rocks and walls.Like I've said before, I'm no plumber. But I'm pretty sure constantly flowing water doesn't form rust lines.
I believe you are wrong. I am not a plumber either, nor am I an expert in flowing water, iron stains, etc. But here is something I do know. The people at I.H. are wealthy. Very wealthy. Billionaires. Rossi is threatening them with a lawsuit. If he succeeds, he will take $267 million from them. That is a lot of money, so they will do whatever it takes to win. That includes hiring plumbers, experts in flowing water, iron stains, flow meters and other subjects. As many as they need. I am sure they will hire the best there are, from leading institutions. They will not leave this to chance. They will leave no stone unturned.So, even though you are not a plumber, and I am not a plumber, you can be sure that I.H. will find all the expert plumbers they need, and if there can be a scientifically grounded case showing the pipe was not full, they will make it. It will be irrefutable. Backed by the best experts in the world.
Rossi was a damn fool filing a lawsuit against these people.
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@ Jed
Yes, the battle of the plumbers! I can't wait! Seriously, though, it could just as easily been caused by standing water at some point.
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Yes, the battle of the plumbers! I can't wait! Seriously, though, it could just as easily been caused by standing water at some point.
Seriously? Seriously, the experts evaluating this and advising the lawyers on what to say know WAY more about this than you do, I do, or Penon and Rossi do. They did not include this document by accident, happenstance, or without careful consideration.I.H. has hardly begun to make their case. They will crush Rossi, Penon, Johnson and even the imaginary Mr. James A. Bass.
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I.H. has hardly begun to make their case. They will crush Rossi, Penon, Johnson and even the imaginary Mr. James A. Bass.
Maybe so. And then what? Save the world from LENR+?
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Maybe so. And then what? Save the world from LENR+?
If you are implying that Rossi's results are real, and they constitute something called LENR+, you are mistaken. I.H. may save the world from being defrauded by Rossi again. Although I have heard he is in Sweden, and he has already begun swindling a new group of marks. -
I.H. may save the world from being defrauded by Rossi again. Although I have heard he is in Sweden, and he has already begun swindling a new group of marks.
As much as I'd love to think that IH sympathizers have bleeding hearts for Hydro Fusion, and want to save them from themselves, I kind of doubt that to be the case.
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IHFB:
QuoteAs much as I'd love to think that IH sympathizers have bleeding hearts for Hydro Fusion, and want to save them from themselves, I kind of doubt that to be the case.
IH sympathisers appear to be the guys who care passionately about LENR science and would like the $50M (or whatever) IH war-chest to be spent as billed on serious LENR research rather than given to Rossi and frittered away on Rossi "magnificence" of zero scientific value.
Surely you can understand that motivation?
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Is this a water meter here? (2011 photo)
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Rossi "magnificence" of zero scientific value.
Even if Rossi is a bust, I don't think he has provided an experience of 'zero value' - even if all he has achieved is waking up a few bankers to the potential value of LENR. Another positive (for me) is the upsurge in interest in LENR in a broader community of people which has created several successful forums (judged by survival) and many more science related blogs. Even the debates about the mechanics of possible trickery are educational and instructive - at times. So not all bad.
@Paradigmnoia -yes that is a water-meter (unless it is a clack-valve of unusual shape). You get a badge for spotting that.
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I have suggested the creation of loopback steam as a way to imitate a megawatt reactor.
Look at the E-cat 1 MW foto. There You may see a pump in front of each core. These pumps dont like steam. The idea of a steam backflow is nut's. As we know, but mister IH inspector could not conclude.., the steam flow was condensation driven. So after condensation there is rarly any steam.
The stain was left in the pipe because the pipe was not full. It was like a ring in a dirty bathtub. It showed the high water mark.
Stain usually happens after long standig water. And it will no go away for ever! THUS: If after a test the water was partially removed, then there is stain...
Flow rate: 36,000 kg (same every day)
JED: According to IH Penon, for many days, reported 0.75 MW equal 27m3 steam. Was he lieing about this 27m3 steam flow... Or is IH lieing about this? Or are You lieing...
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Look at the E-cat 1 MW foto. There You may see a pump in front of each core. These pumps dont like steam. The idea of a steam backflow is nut's. As we know, but mister IH inspector could not conclude.., the steam flow was condensation driven. So after condensation there is rarly any steam.
Stain usually happens after long standig water. And it will no go away for ever! THUS: If after a test the water was partially removed, then there is stain...
JED: According to IH Penon, for many days, reported 0.75 MW equal 27m3 steam. Was he lieing about this 27m3 steam flow... Or is IH lieing about this? Or are You lieing...
You can easily have stains or water marks in pipes and or equipment from short or long standing water. Pipe material, elements and components of the fluid and heat all play a large part of the characteristics of the stain/watermark. Even flowing water in the right circumstances can create water marks. You are completely wrong in assuming that only 'long standi(n)g water' creates water marks. Also "lieing" is not a word.
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IHFB:
IH sympathisers appear to be the guys who care passionately about LENR science and would like the $50M (or whatever) IH war-chest to be spent as billed on serious LENR research rather than given to Rossi and frittered away on Rossi "magnificence" of zero scientific value.
Surely you can understand that motivation?
Rossi's scientific value is to force science to accept LENR as a real phenomena through commercial product deployment.
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Is this a water meter here? (2011 photo)
That meter would be hard to read. It should be installed low to make reading easy,
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Have you looked at the AirBus patents? Where did that tech come from? You can be certain that Defkalion did not give AirBus that reactor design. If Defkalion has "nothing", why has those patent application been made?
......Vandenberghe wrote to New Energy Times that “Airbus Group has signed a letter of intent” to work with his company. In recent weeks, AirBus group has just updated their 2013 patent application copying the Defkalion reactor design. That design had to have come from Gamberale...who said Defkalion had nothing.
......Thank you for your reply.
So to my understanding, you are stating that Airbus is the IP Thief? Very interesting. That the design that they patented is a copy of the Defkalion Hyperion taken by Gamberale. I have not read / reviewed the Airbus patent and thus have no opinions if it is a copy of the Defkalion Hyperion. Perhaps others more informed than I can confirm or offer facts of a dissenting view.I still do not understand why Defkalion dropped out of site. If Airbus patented their stolen IP, would it not have been as easy to hire Defkalion to develop the Hyperion along side of Airbus? Or is it a given that all "large corporations" are "inherently evil" and steal versus working along side inventors? I suppose some may. None of this would have prevented Defkalion from continuing their own business however.
Perhaps it is "cosmic comeuppance"! Rossi, who many believe tells nothing but the truth, clearly states it was Defkalion who stole HIS IP. So does that take Airbus off the hook? They stole something that was not Defkalion's anyway! Is stealing from a crook a crime?
(Good humor people!)I do not know. All the claims of working devices, yet I still cannot buy one yet!
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That meter would be hard to read. It should be installed low to make reading easy,
Agreed. It also should monitor flow in all three pipes.
It sure moves around a lot too, from photo to photo.
I'm not sure what it is doing there. Could be just used as a handy pipe union.
