E-Catworld moderation process?

  • I just wrote a post for E-Catworld and saved it and this showed up: "Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by E-Cat World."


    I never encountered that before. This is the post:


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…ology/#comment-2837078219


    This is the content.

    Quote

    Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax Omega Z • 7 minutes agoHold on, this is waiting to be approved by E-Cat World.What happened in the Doral plant, I do not know, though evidence is beginning to appear. However, I can see and confirm what is happening in Rossi v. Darden, and on the blogs, and it is not uncommon to see claims like that above, that are preposterous, stated as if they were fact.
    "Only on the Blogs does anyone claim COP>50"


    From Rossi's Complaint:
    "71. On February 15, 2016, the Guaranteed Performance test was successfullyconcluded. The E-Cat Unit had successfully operated for more than three hundred fifty (350) days out of a four hundred (400) day period at a level substantially greater than the level achieved during the Validation Test. By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period."


    I wrote another post shortly before, no problem. Have some topics been subjected to moderation? Anyone know?


    Ah, I was wrong. That post is also "pending."
    https://disqus.com/home/discus…ology/#comment-2837067430


    I have moderated many forums. It has happened that I put a member on moderation. I always inform the member immediately, because damage can be done.


    Now, looking at my profile, I made another post, https://disqus.com/home/discus…ology/#comment-2837067430


    I notice that the comment number is the same as the one mentioned above. I did not save that content. Looks like it was deleted. It was in a different thread than the first. I had just seen it as pending a few minutes before.


    Quote

    Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax Ged 3 minutes ago
    Pending


    The MTD tested the situation of every claim that Rossi made being true, not the factual situation. Facts come out in the case and at some point, enough fact may exist to successfully make a Motion for Summary Judgment. The idea that the MTD made some sort of binding factual conclusion is not uncommon among those who have no understanding of what is going on, but with strong opinions held as fact. And, yes, if necessary fact remains in controversy, the jury will resolve it.


    That shows as Pending. A moment ago, the other two posts showed as Pending. They now are gone.


    Update: The post above is now live. The other two do not show in my Discus profile any more.


  • My understanding is that any post (maybe poster?) downvoted enough gets put into a moderation queue which is processed manually at some future time. While queued posts are invisible. It is a lousy system but of use to ECW because it prevents the sensitive souls there from being annoyed by posts they do not agree with.

  • There is a delay sometimes.


    Frank A might go over the posts before they go live, especially if the post is not through a direct Disqus account, but instead a guest name.
    It is so busy that I doubt he has much time to monitor them all, in real time.
    Sometimes words or peculiar combos of words get flagged for attention, also.
    I wouldn't read too much into it. Yet.

  • There is a delay sometimes.


    Frank A might go over the posts before they go live, especially if the post is not through a direct Disqus account, but instead a guest name.
    It is so busy that I doubt he has much time to monitor them all, in real time. Sometimes words or peculiar combos of words get flagged for attention, also. I wouldn't read too much into it. Yet.


    That's why I'm asking. Stuff Happens. However, this was through my Discus account, and the posts showed under my Profile. Of the three, two have disappeared, no longer shown as Pending.

  • That's why I'm asking. Stuff Happens. However, this was through my Discus account, and the posts showed under my Profile. Of the three, two have disappeared, no longer shown as Pending.


    Well, then maybe Frank is cracking down on the wild west there. It is "E-Cat World", after all.
    Giving the patron of the raison d'être of the site a hard time is probably only tolerable for so long over there.

  • Every post I ever made on E-Scat world had to wait for moderation...I figured that was the standard practice there. Either Frank or one of his moderators had/has a real problem with any remarks that were not pro-Rossi as they deleted many of my posts. Typically I would get attacked by 4 or 5 of the standard Rossi worshipers over there like Clovis or Engineer and would then not be allowed to respond, but instead have my post deleted. Frank would then say it was probably a Disqus error, but you could easily see it was intentional when you look at the post history. Then of course I got banned for bringing up points that were not pro-Rossi. I also got banned with another name on E-Scat world for being anti-Steorn. We all know that Frank and company were completely wrong about Steorn/Orbo now as well, that one just turned comical. I learned early on that you will get banned immediately if you troll or push the envelope on E-Scat, so I was actually pretty careful over there. I wonder what will become of E-Scat world if the E-Cat is shown to be a complete fraud.

  • I rarely post just sit in the wings reading but the odd time I do on there it always awaits moderation. I assume it's just how they run things. Maybe some accounts get marked as auto approve as others do post before mine appear. No big deal I suppose.

  • Looking over the E-Catworld comment guidelines.

    Quote

    E-Cat World is a site that takes LENR seriously, and accepts it as a valid field of research, and a potentially useful energy source. ECW is not a venue where LENR/cold fusion skeptics are given free rein, or a place to debate whether LENR/cold fusion is real. Here we assume here that LENR/cold fusion is a valid scientific phenomenon, an important topic, and one worthy of mature discussion.


    Reasonable as a site focus, and much criticism of the E-Cat was based on such "debate," or pseudoskepticism. It should be understood that assuming that LENR cold fusion is a "valid scientific phenomenon" would be an oxymoron if skepticism is not allowed, because valid scientific phenomena are rooted in experiment, and "LENR cold fusion" is an interpretation of results, no matter how well or how poorly established. However, E-Catworld is not a 'scientific forum." And the name makes it be about the E-cat (whereas lenr-forum.com has an obviously broader mission).


    The exclusion of skepticism is a problem. But, again, reasonable. Then, how is this enforced? The devil is in the details. Many sites build a community, but are actually controlled by a single individual. It's always dangerous, if that individual doesn't understand or accept trusteeship on behalf of a community, which then would require transparency.


    Quote

    This being the overall philosophy of the site, readers are invited to comment, but there are guidelines regarding comments, and moderation is used which can result in comments being deleted.


    With or without warning and measures to allow the user to recover their content? I have deleted mailing list posts, but those posts already went out to all email subscribers, they are always explained (I keep a deletion log on newvortex, it's a bit of a PITA, but it's worth it for the transparency. You can see that a post is deleted because of the gap in message numbers, so the log allows knowing why. And then if one wants a copy, just ask the moderator or anyone who has their own mailing list archive.


    A post deleted on a forum like ECW is gone, it may not be recoverable (but maybe the moderator can). If the post was in response, the person to whom the response was made might get a copy, or not, it depends on system timing. And a pending post would almost certainly not lead to a notification.


    Quote

    The following types of comments are subject to moderation:


    Comments that state openly or by implication that LENR/cold fusion/E-Cat is a fraud or hoax


    This made some sense years ago. At this point, there are open fraud claims by both Rossi and Industrial heat. And it is being discussed. I would, myself, continue to exclude unsupported fraud claims. However, what about claims that Industrial Heat, a major supporter of cold fusion research, has defrauded Woodford and Rossi and is lying before the Court in Florida?


    This rule shows a collapse of LENR and cold fusion with Rossi. The general with the specific.


    Quote

    Comments of a deriding or mocking nature


    Roundly and widely ignored. And now Rossi is being quoted making comments of a deriding and mocking nature. E-Catworld is not prepared to handle controversy, and this is not uncommon with sites and structures established by individuals as distinct from communities that set up dispute resolution process. It's the old "benevolent dictator" model of social organization. How's it working, folks?


    Quote

    Personal attacks on other commentors and/or other persons


    Now, I don't actually know if the comments have been deleted, but there certainly have been many comments accusing me and Jed Rothwell and others of being "Paid APCO FUD-bots," which is quite personal. I haven't gone back to see if they are still there. Maybe Frank deleted them, but they obviously were not "pending," and the main offender, whose claims are then repeated by others, was very active. Again, there is no transparency. One of the functions of transparency is to assure a community as to the fairness of site management.


    Quote

    Comments by those who continually make off-topic comments

    This can be highly subjective, just to note a problem. Off-topic according to whom? Historically, I saw a mailing list moderator essentially ash-can the list by putting me on moderator for off-topic posts. When he first proposed to do that, other lest members defended my posts as very much on-topic. So next time he didn't propose, he just put me on moderatation, and then, realizing that this required him to actualy read all my stuff -- which he mostly did not understand -- he banned. Me. I joined another list and supported the organization behind it, which thrived. That original list collapsed to almost zero traffic. Later, that moderator resigned and my best internet friend became moderator and I was unbanned. But the list is almost dead, having been replaced by two other lists and a formal non-profit organization.


    "Off topic" is best handled by more sophisticated moderation that keeps threads on topic, and that sets up social threads, rather than by deletion. Deletion would be reserved for truly offensive material, spam, etc.


    Quote

    Comments that could be considered defamatory, slanderous or libelous


    Routine on E-Cat world.


    Quote

    Comments that are excessively obnoxious


    Ordinarily obnoxious is okay? There is a lost performative. According to whom? (The open secret: obnoxious is liked in on-line fora, as long as it is obnoxious on the right side.)


    Quote

    Comments that include profanity


    I.e., no authentic, real-world conversation. Again, the devil is in the details. Again, the process by which the site is "cleaned up" is important. Deletion is a crude tool. Adults can handle profanity, particularly if edits are presenved and transparent. I.e., if, as with Wikipedia, the full edit history is visible (excluding "revision deletion" which hides illegal or sometimes content considered grossly offensive, or sometimes RevDel is used for a personal agenda, without necessity, which is off-label and not supported by the community, because transparency is considered a high value.


    Quote

    Needlessly repetitive comments


    And if an error is repeated, is pointing it out as an error "repetitive"? (Yes, it can be, but, again, would the response be deleted and not the occasion for it?)


    Quote

    Comments arguing for or against political ideologies, parties, or candidates


    This is relatively obvious, because those should be off-topic. However, suppose a candidate supports LENR? If that is factually reported, is that "arguing for" the candidate?


    Quote

    Comments arguing for or against religious beliefs or practices


    This, again, should be obvious and is not much violated, though it has been violated, and recently. Not sure if that was done on E-catworld, I saw it here.

  • I used to post somewhat frequently on ECW. I did so under a guest account, however for a couple of years, my posts seemed to go through without moderation. Then I made a few "questioning" posts about Rossi. I made a post that listed 10 quotes of Rossi about customers, plants that were sold and factories. I put the ECW link to every quote on them. I ended my post with something like "I do not know what to think anymore as none of the above seem to be true"


    The moderator responded that my post was repetitive and to review the forum rules of which a link was provided. Every post after that automatically went into moderation. Even when posting as a guest, you have to give your email address, so I assumed my email was now placed in a moderation list and nothing I posted would automatically go as did before. I assumed that if you were a "Rossi fan" and on a white list, your posts automatically went through. If you were too questioning or critical, you got moderated. This is what I assumed was happening, I cannot say for certain that Frank runs it that way.


    I do not blame Frank for wanting to keep the site from becoming ecat.com. That site became a virulent place. I believe he wants to keep ECW a relative "positive place". However ECW has let the pendulum pretty much swing the other way. It is the church of Rossi now. If you ask too many hard questions, you will get excommunicated. You can blast "anti-rossi" supporters as much as you want (as long as you keep it clean and not too flagrant) and you can repeat "pro-Rossi" propaganda as much as you want without any consequence at all. (Sifferkol and Engineer 48 are rock stars there) Just do not post many non-supportive posts, whether fact based or not. You will get your wrist slapped and eventually excommunicated.

  • There was no complaint or notice from a moderator, that I saw. So I put up three posts that showed up in my Discus account as pending. Two disappeared, one eventually showed. I had not noticed any "pending" notices before. I just put up another brief post. "Pending." While it is not impossible that I simply did not notice the moderation before, I don't think so. So I've been put on moderation.


    I'm concluding that I'm better off, not adding content to what will be a dying forum. Few there understand the lawsuit. So what?


    The plot thickens. The first post, which I though was deleted, was not, it was accepted. However, my profile posts are sorted weirdly. It was below, off-screen. But now, looking down, I see a deleted post, it was in response to:
    https://disqus.com/home/discus…_11th/#comment-2834688907

    Quote

    Michael W Wolf Steve Savage • 2 days ago
    And you wonder why skeptics have no credibility. This is a big joke to them, Libeling people, slandering, defaming, and not one that I know of ever takes it back, they just go somewhere else and begin the same drivel.


    My response, deleted, was:


    Okay, a bit edgy, but the 'tude from Michael Wolf is endemic on ECW. The discussion was of a parody comment about JM Cowmical Products by Steve Savage, so the Michael Wolf comment was actually attacking Savage as a "skeptic."
    https://disqus.com/home/discus…_11th/#comment-2834688907


    I don't see any other removed comments than that. I'm guessing, then, that Discus saves removed comments so that the user can access them.


    What I don't know is if the more egregious comments I've seen on ECW have been removed. Maybe they have.


    Meanwhile, we need a more professional look here. Part of the pilot program:




  • I personally tested this to see if it was a Disqus issue when my posts were systematically being deleted...it was absolutely not. It was obvious from the history and content that they were being deleted by moderators...also they were not just disappering the way you see with Discus issues, it showed they were being blocked by a moderator. On numerous occasions I was attacked by numerous users on there (you among them more than once Engineer..but more often the sheep like Sufferkill or Clovis or someone like that) for any statements that were not pro-Rossi. At one point a moderator was deleting posts of mine over and over all day just to make a point, and then when I got agitated and wrote one directly to the moderator...it magically went through instantly to mock me. This of course DID happen...many E-Scat users mocked and attacked me for complaining, all which again magically was not moderated down. Don't pretend you do not know that Frank used to throttle us skeptics to a point that we had no voice. Also when looking at my post history right up to when I was banned on E-Scat world, there is no reason I should have been banned. Engineer, unfortunately Rossi has you fooled so deeply that you cannot see reality, especially now that he has offered you some sort of job or position you mentioned recently.

  • Hi Stephen,


    I don't attack anybody. What I may do is to present another viewpoint than yours, debate the data but never attack the poster.


    With your claimed deleted posts, did you ever take that issue up with Frank?


    BTW even today I had a few of my posts appear when posted but upon a refresh, they are gone. Sometime they come back, sometime they never reappear and are eaten by the cloud.


    Rossi has not offered me a job or position, what he will do is work with me as a nonexclusive agent that guides the customers I find through the Leonardo purchase process, then work with Leonardo and the client's engineer's to plan and do the install and commissioning process. No money comes by way until the client's engineers sign off and accept the plant.
    .
    My clients are heavy steam users and their plant people eat steam engineering for breakfast.


    Before my 1st install, my engineering team & myself will be trained to install & maintain ECats.


    Nothing new here, my interests were disclosed a long time ago.
    .


  • I remember vividly that you were one of those that attacked me on more than one occasion and I was not allowed to respond. Your attacks were not necessarily deeply personal, but attacks nonetheless that I was never allowed to respond to. Yes I did take the issue up with Frank, and I was lied to even after showing proof from my post history...he stuck to it being disqus errors even after I proved it wrong. I have moderated many forums over the years..everything from phpbb to disqus, I know full well how all of it works.


    Let's not play games and dance around you working for Rossi. "No money comes by way until the client's engineers sign off and accept the plant." You are working for Rossi at that point...if even just as a contractor. If he pays you for your work as an agent to customers, you are working for him. Deep conflict of interest when considering your perspectives now that we know you are working for Rossi. Sorry.


  • I think this is an excellent situation. Engineer48 seems to be quite enthused about the eCat and the prospects of putting them into action. From his posts that I have read, he seems at least fairly comfortable with Rossi. (If this is too assuming, please correct me, I do not mean to be). What we need now to do, is encourage Engineer48 in his endeavors to work with Rossi as soon as possible to get a plant into a true customer. I am 100% positive that there are many corporations out there that will jump at the chance to publicly announce with great fanfare that they are doing all that is possible to help with Global Warming and that they are pioneers in the area of cold fusion! They would use it as a marketing device, just as Elon Musk does.


    Rossi himself stated that there were a huge number of companies wanting to purchase the eCat, I am positive that many would not require NDA's! Perhaps Mr. Rossi can enlist you to work with this list to prepare the purchase agreements?


    "... We already have a huge portfolio of “pioneers” from all the world ready to buy the E-Cats "
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/05/15/latest-e-cat-updates/



    What type of time frame do you foresee to have any customer start the actual purchase process? The issuing of a PO for example. I believe it has been about 6 months since you first posted that you had a customer. (Time flies and I have not searched for the exact date, so please excuse me if that timing is incorrect)


    Rossi stated that the 1 year test company purchased (3) more units. I would think that perhaps you would have some information from them to pass on to your clients about how well the plant performed. A satisfied customer is the greatest selling tool one can have. I would think Rossi would put the two companies in contact with each other. I would think good progress has been made in this project? Any updates?


    Sincerely,


  • My client's pays me. I expect my team will deliver much more of value to the client than the ECat.


    I debate the issue, I don't attack unless you consider having your opinion questioned is an attack?


    As far as I know, I have never had posts deleted, disappeared by Disqus yes but not deleted my someone.
    .

  • Hi Bob,


    Have pending orders with Leonardo, in time order, for:


    5 x 10kW domestic reactors


    10 x 1MW low temp reactors fir a customer who have delayed the process due to the legal activity


    5 x 50kW QuarkX reactors for my Remote Area plant that is self powered


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…ystem-concept-engineer48/


    2 x 1MW reactors for local commercial heat customers


    Hoping for my team & myself to be trained during the Leonardo install of their next few US reactors


    Where possible, will keep the forums informed.

  • My client's pays me. I expect my team will deliver much more of value to the client than the ECat.


    I debate the issue, I don't attack unless you consider having your opinion questioned is an attack?


    As far as I know, I have never had posts deleted, disappeared by Disqus yes but not deleted my someone.
    .


    The situations I am speaking of were more or less a group banter usually consisting of myself or myself and one other person arguing a point against a large group of Rossi supporters, which is common on E-Scat World. On numerous occasions MANY of my posts were deleted (actually said deleted in my history) right in the middle of the banter while those on the Rossi side were allowed to continue with even personal attacks (yours were not very personal from my recollection). The first one or two times I experienced this, I wrote it off..but then I experienced a definitely distinct pattern of being silenced.


    If you are being paid by your clients rather than by Rossi for consulation/leads etc, then I do retract my statement as I misunderstood thinking Rossi was to compensate you. My apologizes on that.

  • @E48,
    For the most part you are right. As I mentioned above.
    Frank will, and does, moderate.
    However, these deleted posts leave a "This post has been deleted" or something similar in their place so the thread doesn't break.
    I have also seen posts appear, then change to a "this post is being moderated. See comment" (where you can click on the see comment). Then disappear, then reappear.


  • Moderators set up the triggers for requiring moderation. Key words are possible, and a user may be set to require moderation. That has obviously happened to me. That could possibly be automatic based on these or thoset criteria, user votes ("reputation"), etc., but ultimately the site owner is responsible. Key would be the appearance in the profile. Pending posts should show in the profile, also removed posts.


    If there are software problems, they should be disclosed so that users can compensate (for example, keeping a copy of posts, if they care).

  • Hoping for my team & myself to be trained during the Leonardo install of their next few US reactors



    Engineer,


    Out of curiosity, have you ever met anyone from Leonardo other than Rossi? I know he says Leonardo has 33 employees, but I have never been able to find any "brick and mortar" under the Leonardo banner, and the only website is through Hydrofusions "ecat.com".


    We know literally nothing of Leonardo after all these years, and anything you might add would be helpful.

  • Quote

    I do not blame Frank for wanting to keep the site from becoming ecat.com. That site became a virulent place.


    You mean ecatnews.com which was initially heavily censored until the owner, pseudonym "Paul Story" realized Rossi never had anything. Then he allowed unfettered discourse for both believers (like that moron Greenwin) and skeptics. Virulent? I doubt it. It was just an open debate. Story did remove posts and posters who made no contributions except nonsense and insults... and those who impersonated others... like Greenwin.


    Ecatnews.com is now closed because Story got tired of moderating it once Rossi bit the dust.

  • You mean ecatnews.com which was initially heavily censored until the owner, pseudonym "Paul Story" realized Rossi never had anything. Then he allowed unfettered discourse for both believers (like that moron Greenwin) and skeptics. Virulent? I doubt it. It was just an open debate. Story did remove posts and posters who made no contributions except nonsense and insults... and those who impersonated others... like Greenwin.


    Ecatnews.com is now closed because Story got tired of moderating it once Rossi bit the dust.


    Yes, my mistake. I meant ecatnews.com not ecat.com. Thank you for the correction.
    Paul indeed, initially tried much like Frank, to keep the place a "reasonable" forum. I believed he allowed more "questioning" that Frank does but that may be only my perspective.
    Paul stopped moderating it a couple of years ago and left the site open. It became very nasty with no real purpose other that the two "sides" to sling mud and insult each other.


    I believe you are correct in that the site now no longer accepts posts but Paul stopped moderating it a few years back.


  • Thank you for your response. As I am curious could you offer the following :
    1) Are any of your customers willing to be "public"?
    2) Have you had any conversations with Rossi other than email. I.E. formal talks regarding terms, time lines and contract specifics?
    3) If yes to #2, has contract talks included any performance verification methods? I am not asking about payment terms but specific
    methods of how performance would be measured before payment is rendered? I.E. no ERV, but your own people etc.?
    4) Has any estimated time frame been given to you on training at upcoming installations so you can plan travel, room and board and
    other contingencies?
    5) Do you have a milestone and "target date" set that if serious progress has not been made, you must write off the venture as implausible?
    6) Lastly and perhaps most difficult to answer, in the past 3 months, what has transpired that has given you the most confidence
    that any contracts or PO's with Leonardo Corp. will be realized?


    Thank you for your willingness to discuss this. I am truly interested to hear of your experiences. I must admit that I am not overly
    optimistic about the potential for success in your venture. I genuinely do want you to be successful and hope that success is seen
    in the relative near future! It will be a big boost to LENR and really big to Rossi. However it is a double edge sword as well. If another
    6 months goes by and there is no movement from the current status, if the QuarkX has "evolved" to the QuarkZ etc. etc., I would have to
    think that the possibility of a likely venture would be severely diminished and this would be another blemish on the Rossi story.


    Sincerely,
    Bob

  • As far as I know, I have never had posts deleted, disappeared by Disqus yes but not deleted my someone.


    This is not based on a search, just on my impressions. I find Engineer48 collaborate and cooperative, and not vituperative. Yes, I think he's naive in some ways, but that's his privilege


    Assuming he is telling the truth -- which is always where I start -- he is a Rossi "insider," having direct communication with Rossi, which makes his participation valuable, just as Dewey Weaver was the only true IH insider writing anywhere.


    Jed Rothwell apparently has some level of inside information -- as he has for years, because people trust him and tell him things -- but it's sketchy and sometimes quite incomplete. I have the tiniest amount, mostly it makes no difference at all. Recently some people in the field have been deciding to trust me with confidential information. I respect those requests, and it's become more important for me, as to my own work, to understand more broadly what is going on.