My idea is that an out of control condition is perfectly what we want.
Do you wand to develop LENR as a new type of fireworks?
New article about Etiam Oy in Finnish technology magazine
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No chance of replicating De Bellis. 15Bar Hydrogen is a bit too much.
But consider this: if it's true that De Bellis and Rossi collaborated together at some point in the past (or took some ideas from each other), and if it's true both of them are actually using some sort of charging of the powders (as your Lugano anecdote of a few posts ago also tells, which means that a critical step has been omitted for real Lugano replications), then a high pressure maybe is not 100% necessary. I was pointing more at the general concepts instead of the specific details.
Do you wand to develop LENR as a new type of fireworks?
What better demonstration of LENR than a meltdown with no input energy?
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De Bellis and Rossi
They knew some of the same people at the same time. And De Bellis and Rossi lived in the same area- but how much direct collaboration there was is (at the moment) unknown.
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robwoudenberg,
If Pekka Soininen of Etiam Oy has not changed his mind his reactors should be based on the theory of Rydberg matter. I don't think he can change this without compromising his patent.
Speaking again of ultrasounds (also used by Etiam Oy) who has already read about neutron generators?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_generatorThey use a small vacuum chamber where deuterium ions are accelerated against a deuterium-loaded target, producing D-D fusion with neutron emission in the process. Could it not be that a similar process, while not supposed to be LENR, also happens in typical reactors containing hydrogenated metal powders, if they're subject to internal high voltage potentials (as could happen with piezo- or triboelectric effects induced by ultrasounds)?
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If Pekka Soininen of Etiam Oy has not changed his mind his reactors should be based on the theory of Rydberg matter. I don't think he can change this without compromising his patent.
According to his patent application atomic hydrogen is used as a step to produce Rydberg matter (in fact Rydberg hydrogen). See Fig. 19 of the application.
Meanwhile he might use new methods that he may have filed as new patent applicaton recently. We can only observe those 18 months after the date of filing.About your second remark: I have no clue.
My earlier remark refers to local relative high voltage as described in Pekka Soininnen's patent application. He suggests several solutions to provide this; piezo-, pyro- and/or magneto-electric materials. -
Without following this thread closely. Why is 15 bar of de Bellis considered a challenge? That's around 220 psi?
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According to his patent application atomic hydrogen is used as a step to produce Rydberg matter (in fact Rydberg hydrogen). See Fig. 19 of the application.
Meanwhile he might use new methods that he may have filed as new patent applicaton recently. We can only observe those 18 months after the date of filing.I see, thanks for the link. Sometimes I've read other people write about Rydberg matter production (I never payed too much attention to this theory however) and I recall that atomic hydrogen is needed for it. However what I'm also saying in the latest few posts is that other effects that Pekka Soininen could have not noticed may also occur.
QuoteAbout your second remark: I have no clue.
My earlier remark refers to local high voltage as described in Pekka Soininnen's patent application. He suggests several solutions to provide this; piezo-, pyro- and/or magneto-electric materials.Both De Bellis and Rossi (in a certain patent application) talk about a "neutron cloud" or that "neutrons are liberated" under certain conditions with a high voltage potential.
I think that in the highly dynamic environment of sonicated powder there could be conditions arising for electrons to be accelerated and knock out neutrons from hydrogenated particles as in portable neutron generators. But what would happen at the higher temperatures where LENR experiments typically occur?Without following this thread closely. Why is 15 bar of de Bellis considered a challenge? That's around 220 psi?
I think it is a challenge in high temperature experiments (Parkhomov replications), where the tensile strength of the ceramics tubes used decreases significantly. But for the experiments that have been proposed in this thread (using ultrasounds) it would not be necessary to use temperatures this high, maybe they would even be counterproductive.
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Without following this thread closely. Why is 15 bar of de Bellis considered a challenge? That's around 220 psi?
Containment at this pressure is a BIG problem. Hydrogen too is an escapologist. One needs more space and a serious heavy-duty reactor in a properly spark-proof environment to play in this region. I have run Hydrogenators (synthesizing rubbers) at 150Bar and 500C - they have steel walls 5cms+ thik- so not a question of fear, just a question of affordable equipment.
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Both De Bellis and Rossi (in a certain patent application) talk about a "neutron cloud" or that "neutrons are liberated" under certain conditions with a high voltage potential.
I think that in the highly dynamic environment of sonicated powder there could be conditions arising for electrons to be accelerated and knock out neutrons from hydrogenated particles as in portable neutron generators. But what would happen at the higher temperatures where LENR experiments typically occur?My focus is more on Holmlid rather than on Rossi or Bellis. Inverted Rydberg Hydrogen is relative unknown, but maybe key. Holmlid has shown that Inverted Rydberg matter can easily be split into high energy particles (e.g. protons that may alter into neutrons). I recall that Soininnen's patent application (e.g. page 8 ) also refers to one or more articles of Holmlid.
In fact, the presence of local high electrical fields can produce high energy protons from the hydrogen present, which in turn can cause the split of Inverted Rydberg hydrogen into high energy particles.
I'd like to see independant confirmation of the work of Holmlid though to be 100% convinced. -
robwoudenberg,
Personally I am looking more at common conditions among different experiments rather than fixating on a theory in particular. When I refer to the claims of Rossi or De Bellis about how neutrons are getting liberated in the environment (I can find the actual citations if you want), I can assure you I do it with a pinch of salt. It could be that the circumstances they are inducing are generating Rydberg matter, I don't know. That seems like an interesting theory that others here have already cited, so maybe it's worth studying in depth. I don't remember reading that Holmlid uses high voltage potentials however.
I still would like to point out that there can be conventional effects at play behind which LENR (excess heat and transmutation) could hide.
Speaking again of ultrasounds (successfully used by Etiam Oy in its Patent) I must note that there have also been claims of neutron from sonicated solid steel bars in inert environments that don't use hydrogen: http://www.iccf19.com/_system/…_poster/AP47_Petrucci.pdf
These researchers have their own theory (the so-called piezonuclear reactions) but nevertheless I think the results can be explained by the generation of high voltage potentials and discharges caused by stress-induced cracking in the material.
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Here's a fuller (if slightly earlier) description of the work done by Petrucci and co. including equipment diagrams and opertaing specs. Free download.
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Alan Smith,
Thanks for the link. The elemental analysis are interesting and remind more traditional LENR experiments. The authors exclude that the sonication could have caused the damages observed on the surface, at least directly.
In other works they (Cardone et al.) use certain quartz-rich rock samples that emit neutrons under compression-stress fracturing, which I'm still rather convinced is because of high voltage potential generation due piezoelectric effects (which Etiam Oy takes advantage of in its Patent), either directly or indirectly.
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They use a small vacuum chamber where deuterium ions are accelerated against a deuterium-loaded target, producing D-D fusion with neutron emission in the process.
I thought this (kind of) kinetic neutron spallation process has been patented a long time ago?
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Here's a fuller (if slightly earlier) description of the work done by Petrucci and co. including equipment diagrams and opertaing specs. Free download.
Hello Alain. Here a Russian paper with similar findings but it's electrolysis. They looked for monopoles.
https://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0101/0101089.pdf
Most actual with some theory: http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-391/aflb391m791.pdfan older one: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LochakGlowenergyn.pdf
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Hello Alain. Here a Russian paper with similar findings but it's electrolysis. They looked for monopoles.
https://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0101/0101089.pdf
Most actual with some theory: http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-391/aflb391m791.pdf
an older one: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LochakGlowenergyn.pdf
Here again, this experimental demonstration of monopole behavior demonstrates the importance of understanding duality in physics. The Service Plasmon Polariton (SPP) is a dual of the monopole, That is, the SPP quasiparticle produces the same effects that a monopole would produce if it existed as a fundamental particle. These dualities in effects that the SPP produces are also shared by other more complex composites of SPP quasiparticles in part comprise such as metalized hydrides and nanowires.
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Is there something new about it since 2016?
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Is there something new about it since 2016?
Last I heard about them, was when the IH (Industrial Heat)/Rossi court documents showed IH was interested in bidding for Etiam's IP. That would have been in 2015/2016 I believe.
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Is there something new about it since 2016?
Etiam Oy announced their closing in 2017. They also announced that their IP was sold to the highest bidder.
Announcement was on their etiam.fi site, which has been offline for years now.
