Water injection saves fuel

Quote from axil

Bosch engineers turn to water injection for fuel-saving bonus

It's a simple thermodynamic trick engineers use since 80 years - nothing new - just enhanced cooling! No LENR..................

The problem with the metal fuel is almost all of the inefficiencies, energy input, energy wastage, and pollution is simply moved to the metal extraction and refiner end of the process. The case for storing energy in aluminum metal is old, and is at least a bit cleaner due to primarily being refined using hydro electric power. That is until you stop ignoring the billions of tons of waste materials the aluminum is extracted from, the mining equipment fuel use, and although mostly a one time cost, of the coal burned to make all the steel for the mineral processing, refining facilities, and giant excavating and hauling equipment.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

The case for storing energy in aluminum metal is old, and is at least a bit cleaner

Aluminium is a severe environmental danger and never should be used without retaining it!

@Wyttenbach,
Aluminum is the third most common element in the Earth's crust, at about 8%. Aluminum is ubiquitous.

@David Fojt,
If we can one day make a LENR reactor with various metals, then obviously the advantage will be for metals as fuel.

At present, the most efficient means of refining metals for redox reaction or other metal chemistry fuels is not very efficient at all. The main efficiency is that of scale, where the efficiency of one energy intensive refining or combination process is optimized. This can be far more efficient than thousands or millions of smaller, load-variable vehicles. In this way even burning coal to make electricity for battery powered cars is more efficient than using a small hydrocarbon fuelled hybrid engine to charge batteries in a car. (Although independent range is a fairly good reason to use this hybrid method, and therefore this is a trade-off).

Quote from axil

http://brilliantlightpower.com…s/papers/SunCellPaper.pdf
H2O-Based Solid Fuel Power Source Based on the Catalysis of H by HOH Catalyst

Unfortunately I have not managed to found anything related to the reported metallic nature of this HOH catalyst here.

It would be nice if you could copy&paste specific paragraphs also from other papers to source these statements.

Quote

I heard Mills describe HOH in this video, but I do not know where

http://brilliantlightpower.com/demonstration-days/

There are 7 videos here. I would not even know from where to start.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Aluminum is the third most common element in the Earth's crust, at about 8%. Aluminum is ubiquitous.

Most plants don't like aluminium, also micro-organisms. As long as the PH is high enough - ALU is bound - everything is OK. But today we highly proliferate acids (CO2 NO2,NO3 etc...)

@Wyttenbach,
A few days ago, I was at a river with a naturally acquired pH of 2. Aluminum wasn't even close to being on the nasty list in that water, comparatively. I would sooner eat a teaspoon of ground aluminum than a teaspoon of the lake bottom mud where that river goes into the lake.

In small air cooled airplane piston engines (<500 kW where turbines have the market), the engines run rich for takeoff and climb, then go lean after reaching cruise conditions. Pilots are taught to do this because of the needed additional engine cooling. Water injection would be better than rich fuel, but nobody wants to increase complexity or lower reliability of airplane engines.

The problem of water injection is that when it fails, things go bad either way.

The worst case is excess water flow, resulting in a hydraulic lock and destruction of the engine.
Alternately, If the water is not there when needed, then over heating damage and accelerated wear occurs.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

The worst case is excess water flow, resulting in a hydraulic lock and destruction of the engine.
Alternately, If the water is not there when needed, then over heating damage and accelerated wear occurs.

Water (and C02) is the usual end product of burning pertrol C_x-H_y. Why should this cause damage ??

This simple cool down technology (water injection) has been used for over 50 years and its "new" presentation nothing more than a media hipe!

@Wyttenbach,
The water, as you have mentioned and I agree fully, having some experience, is there for extra cooling, generally to prevent preignition, which is damaging to normal engines and often fatal to engines being operated near their mechanical limits.

However, until more recently, water injection was an add-on system to high performance engines. And the most common fail mode was leaking while stationary, partially filling a cylinder or two with water. One good crank of the starter, and bang! Bent rods, broken starter gears, flywheel teeth, pushrods, etc. Technology has improved significantly since I have been near an add-on system. The main benefit the of using extra fuel to cool an engine is that the reservoir is the same as for the normal operation, so it cannot be forgotten to get filled.

I recall people with 454 GM engines in trucks swapping the engine chip for one from a 305 taxi engine. The injector size was proportional to the engine size, and the computer could make up for minor differences in the fuel map, but the 454 engine dumped a Lot of extra fuel in at wide open throttle. This resulted in excessive carbon build ups in engines used by those with a "heavy foot". The 305 chip did not do the extra fuel-cool method, and resulted in better power and fuel economy when used for the 454 engine. But when used with a 454, the engine would run hotter, and damage to the engine could occur in extended full throttle use, like towing heavy loads up long inclines.

Quote from Dan21

Water injection would be better than rich fuel, but nobody wants to increase complexity or lower reliability of airplane engines.

Water injection was used with WWII fighter aircraft to give them an emergency power boost. It was around 20% above the maximum rating of the engine. Used longer than 5 minutes or so, it would quickly destroy the engine. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_emergency_power

I had forgotten about that example. More recently, DARPA used a version of this called MIPCC or Mass Injection Pre Compressor Cooling to be used to increase thrust at altitude of a turbojet engine. The main purpose was as an air-launching platform to loft an upper stage that deliver a small payload to low orbit. Here's a small contract summary. https://sbirsource.com/sbir/aw…mospheric-turbojet-engine Both water and liquid oxygen were to be injected with spray bars just ahead of the first compressor section.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

<a href="https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/User/1285-Wyttenbach/">@Wyttenbach</a>,
A few days ago, I was at a river with a naturally acquired pH of 2. Aluminum wasn't even close to being on the nasty list in that water, comparatively. I would sooner eat a teaspoon of ground aluminum than a teaspoon of the lake bottom mud…

I'm no chemist but on pH scale of 1 to 7, 2 seems like a rather strong acid. According to a quick google search, lemon juice has pH of 2. I can't imagine a whole river of something that acidic and what it would do to the immediate surroundings. Where is this river?

@JPL,
It is the surroundings that do this to the river, not so much the other way around. Multi-kilometer scale copper-iron sulphide gossans on either side of the river, the valley sides oversteepened by long ago melted glaciers. The river at the clearest is yellow, and is typically a silty, rusty orange. Streams of bright green, blue and orange spill down the yellow-orange slopes. The river pH is effectively neutralized at a lake, and there are millions of tons of copper and considerable amounts of gold (perhaps a million ounces) estimated to be in the lake mud. Plus a rather lengthy list of other metals. None of this has been mined, although there are plans to do so, maybe, once and if hundreds (perhaps thousands) of environmental issues have been addressed.

Different area, but similar sort of thing:

http://news.nationalpost.com/n…google_editors_picks=true