DTRA: Investigation of Nano Nuclear Reactions in Condensed Matter, Mosier Boss, L. Forsley, PK. McDaniel

  • Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) allowed the publication of a report by Mosier-Boss, P.A., L. Forsley, and P. McDaniel
    "Investigation of Nano Nuclear Reactions in Condensed Matter, Final Report. 2016," http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MosierBossinvestigat.pdf (PDF)


    It is quite big, and it will require deep analysis as it looks very rich...
    Section 3 is describing careful work with codeposition like Spawar did, CR39 analysisi, gamma/X analysis.
    Section 4 is more prospective, and section 5 refers to the mass of work already done.
    There are huge volume of references, each of which should be analysed.

  • As it has been highlighted in a different forum (Cobraf), in section 3.8.2 (page 78 in the document) the results of a different experiment than usual are reported. A palladium foil electrolitically loaded with deuterium in Li2SO4 electrolyte was taken out of the cell and placed between a copper block and a high explosive charge. When the charge was triggered a sudden neutron burst was generated, together with the production of a crater in the copper block. This only happened with a single foil sample, the only one that was charged with a Li2SO4 electrolyte and has not additional wires welded to measure the loading.


    It seems as if something ejected at ultra high velocity from the foil in this specific case and caused havoc on the Cu block.


    Most of all, this tells something more than usual about the nature the reaction.



  • A palladium foil electrolitically loaded with deuterium [...was] placed between a copper block and a high explosive charge. When the charge was triggered a sudden neutron burst was generated[...]

    Most of all, this tells something more than usual about the nature the reaction.


    And it even more substantiate the "hammer" which @me356 mentioned some time ago, with which he can trigger the reaction.

  • So maybe you could use instead ultrasounds?


    It has been noted in the same forum that one of the co-authors of the reports is Lawrence P.G. Forsley. Apparently he has been a collaborator of Pamela Mosier-Boss for a long time. He has a patent for yet another nuclear waste remediation system where in a certain embodiment deuterated metals are placed in a container and then subjected to ultrasounds. Interesing to note that the device is very similar to a Rossi "Dog Bone". David Fojt may also be pleased to see that his idea of placing magnetrons on both ends of an original Dog Bone tube maybe was not totally out of this world.


    https://patentscope.wipo.int/s…il.jsf?docId=WO2009108331



    See items 32 and 33. And also:


    Quote

    [023] An alternative embodiment results in a heavily deuterided actinide fuel element that is electrolytically loaded and then sealed against isotopic hydrogen desorption, requiring no further electrolytic loading. Said sealed loaded fuel element may then be pulsed by an external acoustic, thermal, radio-frequency or other source providing short duration impulses resulting in periodic actinide metal lattice deuteride loading excursions and consequent neutron generation. This embodiment may be operated independently of an electrolytic bath but with a thermal bath to remove the heat from said loaded fuel element fusion and fission processes.






    Giuseppe De Bellis, who has been suspected to have worked in the past with Rossi in other threads around here, also prescribes the usage of ultrasounds in his patent:


    https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2016026720&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCT+Biblio

  • So maybe you could use instead ultrasounds?


    Maybe. Maybe just one sort of "shock". EM pulse, temperature, magnetic, electrostatic, ultrasonic/sound, pressure change (this is in some way ultrasounds?).
    Maybe it is just important to get a "movement" into the usually static metal lattice. Temperature could be one type of movement.

  • As I wrote in a different thread (I believe) I personally think this is about forcing the movement and the squeezing of hydrogen inside the nanometric pores formed during high loading (which causes embrittlement) or during specific treatments for producing said pores.


    Palladium is one known material that deforms and embrittles during high loading but unfortunately in pure form it also cracks easily and does not hold structurally.
    So a material that inherently has such pores (avoiding prolonged loading times with random results) and that does not crack would be ideal.

  • What I like the most is that Axil predicted a connection between LENR and superconductivity. He is constantly throwing arround with a lot of wild speculations of underlying physical phenomena, but you definitly have to give him that :crazy: :thumbup:


    Also interesting is the end of the document where they speak about the interested people in LENR and the transition of the SPAWAR research to other govermentle agencies. This document summarizes the SPAWAR research which was active till 2013. So there are 3 years more of research on that topic.


  • Palladium is one known material that deforms and embrittles during high loading but unfortunately in pure form it also cracks easily and does not hold structurally.
    So a material that inherently has such pores (avoiding prolonged loading times with random results) and that does not crack would be ideal.


    Edmund Storms repetitively remind that Fleischman told PdAg alloy as in Pd hydrogen filters was the best, because of what you say, it behave better under hydrogen permeation. Best sampla are simply Pd gas filters like did Fralick.


    about the impression than any kind of impulsion is good, it is what appear clearly from the mass of experiments.

  • Hi all


    The key indicator from this is that the information that has just been declassified and made public is from no later than 2011/2012. So the section of the briefing that is made public is at least 5 years old. More up to date information remains undisclosed.


    So LENR is a subject of ongoing DOD research.


    Kind Regards walker



  • This experiment is fodder for a good deal of theoretical speculation that I shall now indulge in. This is also an experiment that Ed Storms would not be interested it.


    Where those actually neutrons that were detected or were they Exotic Neutral Particles? It could have been possible that the palladium contained a large amount of metalized hydrogen sheltered in the cracks (aka nanocavities) produced under high hydrogen loading. No, they were probably neutrons as I will explain below.


    When the palladium vaporized, the explosion could have liberated those metalized hydrogen nanoparticles and gave them a both high velocity and kinetic energy directed toward the copper block.


    Metalized hydrogen is protected by a magnetic coating produced by "Hole Superconductivity". This is the same monopole flux line shielding mechanism that enables the water crystal discovered by Mark LeClair to survive high energy impact with a substrate in high efficiency cavitation bubble collapse.


    This magnetic shield might have enabled the metalized hydrogen to erode the copper block in the same way that a cavitation jet erodes copper in cavitation bubble collapse.


    Another possible source of neutrons is hot fusion as seen in the cavitation experiments of LeClair. There could have been a hot fusion reaction generated at the interface between the metalized hydrogen and the copper surface. This copper surface should have been analyzed to see if there was any transmutation and/or activation radiation generated by the explosion and high speed projection of the metalized hydride into the copper as occurs in cavitation.


    In a collision between a metalized hydride and another substrate element or compound, even diamond, it is the substrate that gives way and is disrupted and not the metalized hydride. The surface of the metalized hydride can withstand supernova levels of energy, pressure, and temperature.


    A millerterized application of this experiment would be to coat a bullet with metalized hydride and use that bullet to penetrate armor to great depth. That impenetrable magnetic shield that LENR engenders has many uses. In the long term, such a shield could be more valuable that excess heat production.


    Another insight gleaned from this experiment is that the metalized hydride was stable for a considerable amount of time. After preparation, the palladium foil was transported to LANL and the compression experiment was setup. Now all that had to take a lot of time.

  • Is this paper not an official vindication of Fleischman&Pons by a US scientific agency? It is a strong indicator of what to expect September 22 in the white house hearing about LENR!


    Quote from SG at ECW: Look at the last page. It took about two years to get all of the signatures to release it. Just wow...

  • This experiment is fodder for a good deal of theoretical speculation that I shall now indulge in. This is also an experiment that Ed Storms would not be interested it.


    Where those actually neutrons that were detected or were they Exotic Neutral Particles? It could have been possible that the palladium contained a large amount of metalized hydrogen sheltered in the cracks (aka nanocavities) produced under high hydrogen loading. No, they were probably neutrons as I will explain below.


    A spike followed by a slowly decaying signal could be indicative of something that got neutron activated by a neutron burst. Unfortunately there is no way to make sense of the scale of the graph (time especially).


    Quote

    When the palladium vaporized, the explosion could have liberated those metalized hydrogen nanoparticles and gave them a both high velocity and kinetic energy directed toward the copper block.


    The energy seems to be greater than that of the explosion alone however (but the exact specifics are not known so this could be a wrong assumption).


    Quote

    Metalized hydrogen is protected by a magnetic coating produced by "Hole Superconductivity". This is the same monopole flux line shielding mechanism that enables the water crystal discovered by Mark LeClair to survive high energy impact with a substrate in high efficiency cavitation bubble collapse.


    This magnetic shield might have enabled the metalized hydrogen to erode the copper block in the same way that a cavitation jet erodes copper in cavitation bubble collapse.


    I don't know.


    But what would happen if one of such crystals meets another crystal??


    Quote

    A millerterized application of this experiment would be to coat a bullet with metalized hydride and use that bullet to penetrate armor to great depth. That impenetrable magnetic shield that LENR engenders has many uses. In the long term, such a shield could be more valuable that excess heat production.


    I suspect this has been already done long time ago.


    Quote

    Another insight gleaned from this experiment is that the metalized hydride was stable for a considerable amount of time. After preparation, the palladium foil was transported to LANL and the compression experiment was setup. Now all that had to take a lot of time.


    This is an interesting observation that is also corroborated by others. Whatever is formed and retained inside these materials seems to be stable against degradation outside the original environment.

  • This experiment is fodder for a good deal of theoretical speculation that I shall now indulge in.



    If you consider that experiment in the context of Edmund Storms approach, not only his Hydroton theory, but the meta theory that emerge from his negative (the "it cannot be else") analysis.


    As I understand his vision, the NAE, and hydroton is just one proposal, is a coherent object , insulated from outside, that involve many H/D/T nucleus and electrons, that on the way to p-e-p fusion produce moderate photons from the transitions on a thin energy levels structure.
    This mean that the NAE is showing a strange kind of nuclear+electronic isomeric state, at a very wide scale, which is clearly hard to swallow. Let us assume it is real, as any other proposal is not much more easy to swallow (Seeing how no theory capture support from other physicist, I come to that conclusion)


    One way to interpret the neutrons burst, the energetic particle burst, mostly observed when reaction is not so well happening (remember Letts laser, Scaramuzzi neutrons), when the system is in transition (shock, temperature change, pressure change), is that the NAE is violently "distracted" and disentangle brutally, being forced to condensate in a classical non entangled quantum state, far from the bottom state of the entangled NAE, probably in a locally excited state .


    anyway like @axil, it is pure speculation, and we need more experiments, not caring so much about theory, as Abd says.
    As Edmund says too, however, a theory is a guide to make experiments.
    This is why for me the hypothesis, the meta theory, that the NAE is an entangled object of big size, could be tested by trying to disrupt the supposed isolated nuclear+electronic wide range isomeric state.

  • Is this paper not an official vindication of Fleischman&Pons by a US scientific agency? It is a strong indicator of what to expect September 22 in the white house hearing about LENR!


    NARL already in 1993 knew the excact nature of the Fleischman Pons experiment! 23 years ago!


    This report (Mosier Boss) is just a summary of additional work done in the follow up of the 1993 proof. The famous explosion can be seen in a documentary video which has been on public broadcast since years...


    Conclusion; This report shows nothing more than they already in 1993 knew, but with more detail and better arguments!


    The crucial question is : What is the DOD hiding since 2005 ??? The year the intensified their anti LENR lobbying!

  • Very interesting results. Please note that the HE shock is not
    focalised. Imagine the results with a full convergent shock.


    It is not surprising that these result have been classified for
    years: an obvious use of this effect is a compact neutron initiator
    for weapons.


    At the center of a fissile pit, such an initiator will
    have two effects: first a strong neutron pulse, at the best time
    (maximum density of the pit), by a LENR assisted fusion, and a strong
    boosting effect after the nuclear detonation (by classical hot
    fusion)

  • The Lithium Bullet.

    A millerterized application of this experiment would be to coat a bullet with metalized hydride and use that bullet to penetrate armor to great depth. That impenetrable magnetic shield that LENR engenders has many uses. In the long term, such a shield could be more valuable that excess heat production.


    FWIW A while back and just for fun I packed some standard Parkhomov fuel mix (Nickel, Nano-lithium and LiAL H4) into a couple of hollow lead .22 slugs and fired them at a steel plate. An experiment performed just once before dark and once after sunset (to check for a spark/flash). Result - no more excitement caused than if I had packed the slug with talcum powder. This proves/disproves very little, except that experiments can be fun and a little bit useful. I was checking to see if a sudden heat/pressure wave would create an anomalous heat-burst. While not conclusive, examination of the target afterwards and my visual impression of the impact tends to confirm that nothing special happened. The slugs were not recovered in this instance since they ricochetted into the surrounding wilderness.

  • The Lithium Bullet.


    FWIW A while back and just for fun I packed some standard Parkhomov fuel mix (Nickel, Nano-lithium and LiAL H4) into a couple of hollow lead .22 slugs and fired them at a steel plate. An experiment performed just once before dark and once after sunset (to check for a spark/flash). Result - no more excitement caused than if I had packed the slug with talcum powder. This proves/disproves very little, except that experiments can be fun and a little bit useful. I was checking to see if a sudden heat/pressure wave would create an anomalous heat-burst. While not conclusive, examination of the target afterwards and my visual impression of the impact tends to confirm that nothing special happened. The slugs were not recovered in this instance since they ricochetted into the surrounding wilderness.


    It seems to me that your experimental procedure differed from the procedure that was used by government experimenters. The goal of the experiment is to compress metallic hydrides. your experiment has not shown a method to produce metalized lithium hydride.


    The high loading of lithium into palladium in the govenment experiment has generated metalized lithium hydride. In your experiment to stay true to what the government did, you need to process the lithium to first produce an active LENR reaction for a sufficiently long time period for the lithium to become loaded with energy. You can verify proper preparation by testing the lithium for superconductivity.


    After superconductivity has be achieved in the lithium of any other hydride, then you can load the 22 with that reaction ash and conduct the test.

  • Do I understand correctly that you simply compressed fresh powder into a .22 hollow point? Or did you do the same with powder that was already loaded in a closed reactor?


    Almost. Not a hollow point. I drilled a small hole in the rear face of a slug, put the fuel mix into it (about 50mg) and sealed the hole by pressing a very small ball bearing (stolen from a shower-door roller) into the hole. The idea being that when the slug hit the ball would slide further into the hole and confine and compress everything in the hole 'for an instant'. No reactors were involved, just fuel and slugs and a steel-plate target.


    ETA - for Axil. This was not any kind of replication attempt, but an original 'free-standing frolic' driven by my own curiosity.

  • Steven Krivit reports his findings around this DTRA report
    http://news.newenergytimes.net…-that-isnt-a-dtra-report/
    which as I understand is in fact Spawar work by Pamela Boss and L Forsley (not a surprise), and DTRA is just a sponsor who allowed publication after strong effort by the authors.

  • Steven Krivit reports his findings around this DTRA report
    news.newenergytimes.net/2016/0…-that-isnt-a-dtra-report/
    which as I understand is in fact Spawar work by Pamela Boss and L Forsley (not a surprise), and DTRA is just a sponsor who allowed publication after strong effort by the authors.



    Krivits being his usual aggressive, rude self. I do not know why anyone that is aware of his tactics even answers the phone when he calls. His conclusion that this was *not* a DTRA sponsored report is splitting hairs, and he reports it like it is some hot scoop...which it is not.

  • To be more positive,
    It seems not wrong but not really important anyway.
    DTRA funded this work and allowed for publication, while Spawar abandonned it.


    The new data is just that the work is not a work done inside DTRA, as a new lab, but old Spawar work published at last, after team dismantling.

  • AlainCo wrote:


    Krivits being his usual aggressive, rude self. I do not know why anyone that is aware of his tactics even answers the phone when he calls. His conclusion that this was *not* a DTRA sponsored report is splitting hairs, and he reports it like it is some hot scoop...which it is not.


    Krivit's report is indeed classic Krivit. Over half the story is about .... Steve Krivit, intrepid reporter, learning almost nothing, really, but making it look like something. Did DTRA write the report? No, of course not! It's explicitly attributed! It was apparently reviewed by DTRA (or by a process approved by DTRA) and approved for publication under the DTRA name.


    The first half of his report is useful, though it is being used to flog his book, which is propaganda about his "not-fusion" theory, which has become a conspiracy theory. Mosier-Boss does, apparently, still talk with him, perhaps because he has not -- yet -- attacked her work.


    The report largely focuses on evidence of nuclear reactions, but ignores the direct evidence that the main reaction in the FP Heat Effect is the heat/helium correlation. What does not seem to be noted is that the radiation results reported by SPAWAR are at very low levels, and thus not characteristics of the main reaction; instead, helium is. They, of course, do not report on that because it was not part of their experimental work.


    They do mention a correlation between electrolysis current and neutron detection. I have not reviewed that, but this could also be direct evidence that some sort of nuclear reaction is taking place. Correlation is a powerful tool. Electrolysis current should not affect neutron emission, unless there is a nuclear effect. So how reproducible was this? What's the data set? Etc.


    Low levels of neutrons, however, may reflect low levels of what is called "hot fusion," which may be caused by some other nuclear reaction. The evidence we have points to helium as the major ash, no other candidate has been identified and confirmed.


    Anomalous heat does correlate with electrolysis current; however, it is easy to imagine some systematic artifact for this, i.e., that calorimetry error correlates with current. However, helium correlates with anonymous heat. The correlation with current, though, does not explain HAD, "heat after death" which refers to continued anomalous heat after the electrolysis current is shut off. It would also not explain gas-loaded results, where there is no electrolysis involved.


    There is much material for study in the DTRA report. This was many years of work, often wel- enough-reported that independent confirmation should be possible, and Pam Boss is known to cooperate with replication attempts. This is real science, even if mistakes might be made here and there. Remarkably, even Robert Park acknowledged that this was real science.