Can we talk about Holmlid?

Quote from gameover

I have suspected this for a long time, but I finally found confirmation about this in the words of Holmlid in one of the papers published in the past (2014) that I happened to read by chance while looking for something else.

The transition of hydrogen to the ultra-dense state is highly exothermic and could explain some of the observations in LENR experiments that do not appear to involve any nuclear reaction.

This is what Mills says since about 20 years...

Quote from Alan Smith

I think we need to be very careful when discussing EM field effects on LENR since there is so much contradictory information (sometimes from the same source) on the topic. Since the prime source of an external magnetic field in most reactors is the heating element, perhaps we should consider the effect of this first.

Some use a double winded forth/back current heater coils where the fields cancel!
But to squeeze hydrogen into the particles You need the super-waves. I think You have to have intermitting cycles with load/heat production.

Quote from David Fojt

To Wyttenbach and Alan,
Nobody thought the reverse ?
first of all, H is loaded inside skin under 1 micron thickness then during unloading H could better rolling out on the Ni surface ..

@David: That was my and some others conclusion too, we drew after the mfpG5.3 experiment!

Unloading (best) enables the formation of inverse Ryberg matter.

Quote from eros

Do you have point any paper about radiation generated mental sympthoms?

eros: How are you? Just stumbled over one idea for an RF source: Can you measure anything around 4.46Ghz ?

Quote from gameover

Replying in the most appropriate thread.

This should be high on your list. A phase transition of hydrogen atoms from the gaseous state to Rydberg matter (which is not a gas) would cause a pressure decrease so it will be the easiest way to detect its formation. It is probably the same effect interpreted as an anomalously high hydrogen loading during other LENR experiments.

Why would Rydberg matter be created with plasma discharges? Rydberg matter is a phase of matter composed of collectively excited Rydberg atoms. Rydberg atoms are simply "highly excited atoms" that usually form when electrons recombine with atoms, for example after plasma discharges. Condensation to RM should not be easy just with glow discharges, but still possible.

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Spark discharge is fine for fuel preparation. It makes H(0) formation easier, and it loads H(0) with energy in mere minutes with amounts of energy that would take Holmlids laser weeks to do.

Glow discharge is described in the Rossi patent as the EMF stimulation mechanism that controls the online reaction.

Is Alan Smith mixing the two concepts together and confusing them? I suspect that Alan Smith beleive that fuel prep does not need to be performed even though Rossi's patent clearly defines fuel prep as producing 1 to 100 micron sintered particles derived from 5 micron nickel particle feedstock as a separate and distinct operation.

Quote from Wyttenbach

eros: How are you? Just stumbled over one idea for an RF source: Can you measure anything around 4.46Ghz ?

Not easilly, ofcourse can bend loop antenna and try shotkys rectify, but I think there is not high peaks because ED88T should show 0.1-8Ghz area and it dosn't show any high power level.
Usb-TV stick spectrometer say same. It show only hundreds of small spikes but not any high power peak in 22-1750Mhz area.

Have not run it some time because healt issues.. (after last time somebody started to talk me inside head, give orders/promises. Maybe One of the seven? )

Ancient data give some hint for use shield ~50cm thick paste made from clay, horse manure and hairs surrounded by steel cover (keep wet?, boron?, ironoxide?). It should conduct/build to earth for avoid broblems if I understand correct. (not tryed yet)
And there is also ancient rule that allow only "adaptions" so things need to bind already existing things, denying old is not allowed.

Quote from Alan Smith

eros Have you thought about making shielding from something like this? <a href="http://www.knauf.co.uk/literature/show/12/safeboard" class="externalURL" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">knauf.co.uk/literature/show/12/safeboard</a>

Barium (&calsium) sulphate, maybe. it can put class "earth" and if keep wet should conduct. However it lacs hematite, present in clays. If muons it may need iron to stop them. Or whatever it is. Powerfull One.

If my previous suggestion that the reaction could be ideally (in practice there may be some difficulties) reduced to the excitation of hydrogen atoms without the need for having any preprocessed powder or surface seemed too far-fetched, look at what Piantelli suggests in one of his patents for increasing the production of what he calls H- (that at this point I think it may be interpreted as some sort of dense hydrogen material rather than literally hydrogen anions):

Text from https://www.google.com/patents/EP2754156B1

Quote

[0014] Preferably, the step of generating new H- ions comprises a step of ionizing the hydrogen which is in contact with the clusters.

[0015] In particular, the step of ionizing the hydrogen can comprise a step of continuously or variably or discontinuously supplying an energy vector to the hydrogen, in order to assist the molecular dissociation of hydrogen and to cause a further formation of H- ions in addition to the H- ions that are formed by interaction between molecular hydrogen H2 and a cluster surface. This process occurs by involving the valence electrons of the transition metal, whose transfer from the transition metal to hydrogen is assisted by supplying an amount of energy.

[0016] Such energy vector can comprise a ionizing radiation of various nature and frequency. In particular, such ionizing radiation can be selected from the group consisting of:
• a radiofrequency, in particular microwaves;
• a high intensity light radiation, as the one that can be obtained from concentrated spot power lamp or from a laser system;
• a light radiation;
• a UV - radiation;
• an X - radiation;
• an a - radiation;
• a β - radiation;
• a γ - radiation;
• a combination of such radiations.

[0017] In addition, or in alternative, the energy vector can comprise supplying particle beams . For example, such particle beams can comprise particles selected from the group consisting of:
• protons,
• hyperons,
• mesons,
• leptons;
• accelerated ions of any element, preferably metal ions;
• a combination of such particles.

[0018] A step can also be provided of prearranging a radioactive material proximate to said primary material.

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Quote from gameover

How exothermic it is? Experimentally ultra-dense hydrogen (henceforth called H(0)) has been found to have a bond energy of 630 eV.

Let's assume for the moment that this number is true. I would like to draw out two implications, if they weren't already apparent.

(1) The ultra-dense hydrogen is, then, in a stable phase of matter, apart from the nuclear reactions that can be expected from tunneling at distances of picometers. At room temperature under normal circumstances, there's nothing that will appreciably break the aggregations apart, because 630 eV or more would be needed for this.

(2) Either (a) the force that binds the hydrogen in the clusters is not electromagnetic, nuclear, weak or gravitational, and we need a new fundamental interaction; or (b) we have something like R. Mills or DDL, where an electron allegedly goes into an orbit below the ground state; or (c)?

My bets are that (2)(a) is the case, and Homlid's theoretical interpretation of his experimental results is unphysical.

That is a hand-wavy argument by Holmlid and Olafsson. They are effectively arguing that the opposite of Coulomb repulsion applies in this case, and they summarily deal with the Heisenberg uncertainty problem. They give the impression of being far out of their depth, and I do not think they would be well received in a physics journal. But I will need to look more closely at the argument when I have time.

You do not need to reply to this if it's not an area you're sufficiently familiar with to argue. Hopefully someone who finds Holmlid and Olafsson's work compelling will help to clarify these questions (perhaps Olafsson, who is occasionally on this forum?). I am exactly pessimistic of getting anywhere productive with Holmlid himself. But this forum provides an opportunity for an educational exchange in those cases where people with relevant expertise are around to weigh in, so hopefully something can be clarified in the present context, if not by you, then perhaps someone else.

Regarding the implications of pressure drop in Ni-H systems, I am not convinced that my loading test data from GS5.2 demonstrate what Holmlid describes. Here's a useful paper on forced hydrogen loading in bulk Ni:
http://www2.lbl.gov/ritchie/Li…bine_H2_ActaMater2009.pdf

On pg.3 we see "a uniform hydrogen concentration could be attained in the 4 mm diameter tensile specimen in 120 h by charging at a minimum temperature of 150°C."
In table 2 (pg.4) we see that the loading ("charging") was done at up to 138 MPa, over 1000 bar pressure. That is clearly not feasible for the average LENR experimenter. But if we assume the penetration of H into the bulk scales linearly with pressure, we can estimate a rate of about 4 um/bar with 120 h of exposure at 150°C.

The AH50 Ni powder used in GS5.2 has an average particle size of around 5 um, and by the above estimate would complete to saturation at 1 bar in around 60 hours. This is an order of magnitude longer than the 5 hours observed in GS5.2, but that loading process shown by the pressure curve was clearly not linear with time. The paper has led me to consider using higher H2 pressure during the pre-processing of Ni powder, perhaps in a strong pressure vessel at ~30 bar.

http://sdphln.ucsd.edu/~jorge/hole.html

Hole superconductivity is at the bottom of H(0) formation. When a pair of protons get close enough together, they pair up(copper pairing) to reduce kinetic energy. Holmlid references this mechanism in his papers.

Hirsch is reference in Holmlid’s theory of D(0) deuterium as follows:

Neutral multi-MeV/u particles from laser-induced processes in ultra-dense deuterium D(0): accurate two-collector timing and magnetic analysis

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1508/1508.01332.pdf

“Two ultra-dense hydrogen materials have been proved to exist so far, ultra-dense deuterium D(0) [1,2] and ultra-dense protium p(0) [2,3]. They both exist in a few different forms with slightly different bond distances and densities. All these forms may be characterized as spin based Rydberg Matter (RM) [2]. This description is based on a theory developed by J.E. Hirsch [4].”

Hole superconductivity produces metalized hydrides when the Meissner effect expels electrons from the positively charged hole centric core of the hydride.

When hydrogen is sufficiently compressed, the distance between the nuclei is reduced enough for the hole pair to shed kinetic energy and form a copper pair. In this way a super atom is formed where the electrons and holes are separated by a small distance as per Holmlid and Mills. Hirsch explains it all in his many papers.

http://atom-ecology.russgeorge…/fleischmann-singularity/

The fleischmann singularity illustrtes the requirement of energy loading in the H(0) before the LENR reaction can take hold. The production of a LENR reactive fuel is a multi step process.

The fleischmann singularity shows how the process works.

First, ultra dense hydrogen is formed.

Quote

Martin noted that the measure of the density (fugacity) of the heavy hydrogen isotope deuterium electrochemically loaded into palladium surely exceeded that of metallic hydrogen. Indeed he mused to me the calculations based on his measurements put the density of that heavy hydrogen as being well beyond metallic and similar to the density of hydrogen inside the center of a star!

Second, the ultra dense hydrogen must be charged with energy until it reaches a level where mesons can be generated. The energy level has been measured by ionization of a photo emulsion to be in the multiple GeV range.

Quote

One long running experiment was with a largish cube of palladium, as I recall about a 1 cm cube. It had been sitting for a very long time, months, in the typical electrolysis bath of heavy water into which a bit of lithium had been introduced to help the electrolyte. It was one of those experiments that explorers often have on the ‘back of the bench’ to watch over a long time frame.

The conditions of the experiment were seemingly quite benign. A tiny amount of DC current amounting a 1 watt or so was being used to electrolyse the heavy water. Oxygen was being produced and bubbled up at the platinum anode and deuterium, heavy hydrogen, bubbled at the palladium cathode cube. Palladium being a sponge for hydrogen was also soaking up the deuterium and that palladium cathode may have been holding as many atoms of deuterium as there were palladium atoms. Surely those deuteriums were not uniformly distributed in the metal but rather concentrated in special locations. This was Fleischmann’s perfect recipe for cold fusion.

The type of transition metal is not the important factor. It is how the metal is surfaced that is important. The hydrogen is compressed into the nanocavities on the surface of the metal. The denser that those cavities are, the greater their number is per unit of surface area, the more effective is the metal at producing H(0), and the more H(0) can be formed. So a metal with the highest density of surface nanocavities provides the most H(0). The broken bonds of the walls of the nanocavity make the compression pressure that can be achieved 10X grater than a unfractured metal lattice.

A microparticle with a surface covered with 3 NM cavities is the best LENR catalyst no matter what the metal type is.

Quote from Eric

Let's assume for the moment that this number is true. I would like to draw out two implications, if they weren't already apparent.

(1) The ultra-dense hydrogen is, then, in a stable phase of matter, apart from the nuclear reactions that can be expected from tunneling at distances of picometers. At room temperature under normal circumstances, there's nothing that will appreciably break the aggregations apart, because 630 eV or more would be needed for this.

(2) Either (a) the force that binds the hydrogen in the clusters is not electromagnetic, nuclear, weak or gravitational, and we need a new fundamental interaction; or (b) we have something like R. Mills or DDL, where an electron allegedly goes into an orbit below the ground state; or (c)?

My bets are that (2)(a) is the case, and Homlid's theoretical interpretation of his experimental results is unphysical.

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Holmlid's ideas are great fun, but when examined they have various problems.

(1) (the big one) H(0) would be highly stable and seems relatively easy to generate. So why is it not detected more generally in Physics?
(2) Unusual electron bindings have very different characteristics from nuclear changes, for example they cannot cause transmutation. You need to argue that the H(0) or D(0) matter is dense enough that fusion can be more easily induced (possibly true). Anyway it is more complex.

Just a point about terminology. Holmlid calls his speculative new state of H or D (originally he had a neat mechanism which only worked for D - that he can row back from this makes the work less compelling) Rydberg matter. That is more by way of analogy than accuracy. As has been pointed out by others Rydberg matter is quite different, where near-vacuum interactions between electrons can form extremely low density stable forms of matter at very low temperatures. The hypothesis for H(0) is completely different and so anything you know about conventional Rydberg matter is not likely to apply to H(0) or D(0) and vice versa.

Holmlid can call his stuff what he wants, but the choice of words here is misleading. It also lends a spurious legitimacy to what is otherwise a highly speculative and not well substantiated idea.