Can we talk about Holmlid?

  • The D(0) clusters interact low-dimensionaly, i.e. they condense into form of strings rather than blobs in similar way, like the chains of magnetic dipoles magnetized beads. It would indicate, each cluster behaves like tiny superconducting magnet.

    To call it Rydberg matter is somewhat misnomer, because every superconductive ring should be called a Rydberg matter too. I'm intrigued, which role the KFeO2 (a quite boring compound) plays in their formation. Note that it's ferromagnetic by itself.

    I just hope, that Holmlid doesn't consider the ferrite particles evaporated by laser as some exotic form of matter...


    2ePLilm.gif

  • The D(0) clusters interact low-dimensionaly, i.e. they condense into form of strings rather than blobs in similar way, like the chains of magnetic dipoles magnetized beads. It would indicate, each cluster behaves like tiny superconducting magnet.

    To call it Rydberg matter is somewhat misnomer, because every superconductive ring should be called a Rydberg matter too.


    Now I see what you mean. Holmlid also calls Rydberg matter H(1). It's related with H(0), which can be considered a condensed form of Rydberg matter, but they're not the same thing. As far as I'm aware of, superfluidity and superconductivity was observed in the latter, but not the former. There's some information on the H(1) which you may find useful/interesting in this open access paper from 2002 (try searching in the text "clusters of RM are strong magnetic dipoles").


    The details on how H(1) can form H(0) and viceversa aren't clear to me. I'm not sure if Holmlid has described yet the exact dynamics.


    I'm intrigued, which role the KFeO2 (a quite boring compound) plays in their formation. Note that it's ferromagnetic by itself.


    KFeO2 is the active phase of potassium-iron oxide catalysts and incidentally also what allows Rydberg matter to easily form. There's a paper or two by Holmlid et al. on the subject, here's one (paywalled).


    I just hope, that Holmlid doesn't consider the ferrite particles evaporated by laser as some exotic form of matter...


    In several of the latest published papers he doesn't use the laser directly on the catalyst, so I don't think he's seeing ferrite particles.


    Either way, the most relevant claim for LENR experiments is the reported emission of elementary particles (e.g. muons) after making hydrogen gas flow through the catalyst, before laser irradiation. I feel that in trying to demonstrate that H(0) is unphysical many people are missing this point.

  • Quote

    incidentally also what allows Rydberg matter to easily form


    But why? I don't believe in incidents. Maybe the ionization energies and/or electron capture of potassium 40 plays some role here.
    BTW Randal Mills justifies in similar way his usage of silver catalyst in production of hydrino.

    The muons are energetic 2nd generation of matter, they form during processes involving charm/beauty quarks, antimatter or energy at least 100 MeV and their formation has no meaning there.

  • Random thought....


    Polariton "Lasers" at room temperature are possible using Gallium Nitride (not conducive to high concentrations of H or D).

    http://ns.umich.edu/new/releas…ams-using-250x-less-power


    Would a superlattice structure of doped Ni/W layers grown via chemical vapour deposition under high H atmosphere have what it takes to produce catalysed fusion (muon, polariton tunnelling whatever.....)


    Anyone with a spare lab and a few millions worth of kit lying around ?


    I cant patent this now but hey, it might not work either ......

  • But why? I don't believe in incidents. Maybe the ionization energies and/or electron capture of potassium 40 plays some role here.


    Holmlid et al. found that potassium atoms can easily get emitted (for example in a vacuum and/or upon heating) from KFeO2 directly in a Rydberg state. These Rydberg states of K can form Rydberg matter (which in turn leads to the formation of H Rydberg matter). At the same time, it's also been found that KFeO2 is the active phase in industrial potassium-iron oxide catalysts.


    In other words, there appears to be a correlation between catalytic activity and the ability of easily forming Rydberg states from desorbed atoms.

  • The details on how H(1) can form H(0) and viceversa aren't clear to me. I'm not sure if Holmlid has described yet the exact dynamics.


    I believe there's an energy balance accounting problem here, discussed somewhere earlier in this thread.


    Either way, the most relevant claim for LENR experiments is the reported emission of elementary particles (e.g. muons) after making hydrogen gas flow through the catalyst, before laser irradiation. I feel that in trying to demonstrate that H(0) is unphysical many people are missing this point.


    I've always taken interest in Holmlid's reports as a possible experimental phenomenon and would like to see followup work done by other teams to replicate. My difficulties have been that people have been too willing to accept his theoretical description along with this observations. It's often the case that an experimentalist will have a pet theory that guides his or her work, even as the theory itself is unphysical. It's important to separate the theoretical details from the experimental details of a body of experimental work, even if the researcher is unable for whatever reason to do this.

  • Eric Walker,

    You have such clear thoughts, I wish you were reviewing the Rossi data. I would like to know your opinion. Also I wish your were in our occasional electron discussions.

    Read the article that Alan posted. It (self bias) is the problem with doing all your own work. I can not see why Holmids institution does not have some grad students duplicate it.

  • Rigel, on the technical side of things, my impression of the Rossi data is that there are a number of specific details and purported details that (1) one must put in the time and effort needed to follow closely and have one's head wrapped around and (2) have the background in basic thermodynamics to be ready to quantitatively model. Neither of these things has been a priority for me, and I have greatly benefited from the analyses from THH, Paradignmoia, Jed, oldguy, sigmoidal, Bob, Alan Fletcher, Bob Higgins and others here and elsewhere. These are smart people who know their stuff, and I'm very happy to defer to these folks in matters of detail and just follow developments at a high level, watching for signs of bias or lack thereof. A similar thing can be said for their contributions on the legal side of things. (Not to take this thread too far off topic.)

  • Axil,

    I was only able to read the blurb as it wants a login. Did you read the papers? I would like to see the photos with a brief explaination if available.

    Also I notice you have the common sense and decency to stay out of the Rossi fight in the other thread. I am to weak to I'm afraid.

  • Axil,

    I was only able to read the blurb as it wants a login. Did you read the papers? I would like to see the photos with a brief explaination if available.

    Also I notice you have the common sense and decency to stay out of the Rossi fight in the other thread. I am to weak to I'm afraid.

    See:


    https://www.physics.wisc.edu/~tgwalker/105.Rydberg.pdf


    Entanglement of Two
    Atoms Using Rydberg
    Blockade
    Thad G.Walker and Mark Saffman


  • Axil,

    I read most of the paper (I noticed the Christoffell-symbol around sec 3.3 and I would not have been able to recognize it without your previous links why I follow you is to learn) so for now I stopped reading. I did it to ask you some questions. The paper was about using manipulating quantum information qubits using Ryberg states. Can you provide a link to this mechanism being used by Holmlid? I do not see the relation. But after reading so far, I get an idea on what the D-wave folks are up against. Maybe Holmlid will be what we follow in 2017. So a Holmlid link and why you think it relates please. I also have a feeling that this is going to lead to a discussion on muon detectors. Are you satisfied that he has valid detectors? And finally do you know of anyone reproducing his work, as it seems to be self referencing. -Thanks

  • Axil,

    I read most of the paper (I noticed the Christoffell-symbol around sec 3.3 and I would not have been able to recognize it without your previous links why I follow you is to learn) so for now I stopped reading. I did it to ask you some questions. The paper was about using manipulating quantum information qubits using Ryberg states. Can you provide a link to this mechanism being used by Holmlid? I do not see the relation. But after reading so far, I get an idea on what the D-wave folks are up against. Maybe Holmlid will be what we follow in 2017. So a Holmlid link and why you think it relates please. I also have a feeling that this is going to lead to a discussion on muon detectors. Are you satisfied that he has valid detectors? And finally do you know of anyone reproducing his work, as it seems to be self referencing. -Thanks

    https://booksc.unblocked.world/g/L.%20Holmlid


    This is a list of all of Holmlid's papers


    Look at


    Formation of long-lived Rydberg states of H2

    at K impregnated surfaces



    5. Conclusions

    The following conclusions can be drawn from

    the present study:


    1. Rydberg states of hydrogen molecules (H2)_ are

    formed by the interaction of hydrogen gas molecules

    with the catalyst sample.


    2. Rydberg clusters .H2._N are formed, with peak

    positions corresponding accurately to the magic

    numbers of planar RM clusters.


    3. The hydrogen Rydberg states .H2._

    and hydrogen molecular ions H.

    are formed with an excess

    kinetic energy of 0:2±0:8 eV, depending

    on the conditions of the experiment, especially

    the fluence of the fragmenting laser.


    Items 1 and 2 draw a relationship between the clustering of the Rydberg clusters in the catalyst(potasium) and the clustering in rydberg clustering in hydrogen.


    You will also see that holmlid has worked for decades in researching hydrogen clustering via catalysts. It is no wonder that producing sucessful H clustering requires years of experience.

  • AlainCo asked on E-CatWorld, referring to the muon detection system put in place by MFMP:


    Does it apply to Holmlid candidates muon ?

    Their analysis is adapted to cosmic muons of few GeV energy ?


    My reply (pending verification; in retrospect, I shouldn't have posted there in the first place) was:


    Holmlid's (et al.) analysis is suited for muons of much lower energy (10-100 MeV) that are emitted by his experiments.

    Cosmic muon detectors usually detect the ionization caused by the muons themselves as they pass through them, while Holmlid's detects the beta decay reactions caused by their capture.

  • In reference to my previous comment, in the end MFMP agreed upon my request (I used a different nickname on E-CatWorld) to add a silver metal plate (a 2.3mm thick, 38.6mm diameter commemorative 15 euro coin) on the front of the Geiger tube window of one of their detectors. This should increase the chances to see beta decay reactions from muon capture significantly; Russ George also apparently used silver foil with success some time back.




  • In reference to my previous comment, in the end MFMP agreed upon my request (I used a different nickname on E-CatWorld) to add a silver metal plate (a 2.3mm thick, 38.6mm diameter commemorative 15 euro coin) on the front of the Geiger tube window of one of their detectors. This should increase the chances to see beta decay reactions from muon capture significantly; Russ George also apparently used silver foil with success some time back.

    Your dialog with MFMP was spot on and very knowledgeable. IMHO, MFMP should build a drift tube that can detect charges particles such as the muon.


    Here is one design that looks good and might be built by an Amateur Scientist . Unlike the MFMP approach, It looks very sensitive. A digital counter might might be added to the design to count the high voltage discharges. A MFMP volunteer who is handy with their hands might build this for MFMP so that all types of charged particles can be detected in MFMP experiments.


    Amateur Scientist


  • Good find but would this one in particular actually be suitable for detecting muons directly? The video description states "Pure beta emitters, gamma emitters, and x-rays do not trigger this kind of detector."

  • axil

    I'm not an expert but after a very quick read to me that seems a relatively standard scintillation detector, only homemade.

    Holmlid's improvement for scintillation detectors is the addition of layers or plates of glass or metals to their front window (or in front of the photomultiplier, if detachable), which promotes the capture of slow muons potentially emitted by his reaction. This improvement can be applied to other common detectors, which MFMP already have.


    You've probably already read this paper:

    Muon detection studied by pulse-height energy analysis: Novel converter arrangements