Can we talk about Holmlid?
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In the latest paper Mesons from Laser-Induced Processes in Ultra-Dense Hydrogen H(0) (open access), written by Holmlid, which I happened to read recently more carefully, it's interestingly suggested that other works from different authors are also about Ultra-dense hydrogen. He's citing them in support of his findings. Excerpt:
QuoteResults on ultra-dense hydrogen from other groups exist. A superconductive hydrogen state consisting of very high-density hydrogen clusters in voids (Schottky defects) in palladium crystals has been studied experimentally by Lipson et al. [24]. This effect was attributed to Bose-Einstein condensation [25] or a Casimir effect [26]. Such ultra-dense hydrogen clusters may give increased fusion gains from suitably prepared targets [27]. The close relation between these hydrogen clusters and ultra-dense hydrogen H(0) has been pointed out [28].
On a closer look it appears that these are mainly from Pd LENR work by George Miley et al. Have a look at the related references:
QuoteDisplay More[24] Lipson A, Heuser BJ, Castano C, Miley G, Lyakhov B, Mitin A. Transport and magnetic anomalies below 70 K in a hydrogen-cycled Pd foil with a thermally grown oxide. Phys. Rev. B 2005;72:212507
[25] Miley GH, Hora H, Philberth K, Lipson A, Shrestha PL. in Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions and New Energy Technologies Source Book, eds. Marwan J. and Krivit S. B., Vol. 2, p. 235–252 (American Chemical Society/Oxford University Press, Washington DC, 2009)
[26] Hora H, Miley GH. Maruhn-Greiner maximum of uranium fission for confirmation of low energy nuclear reactions LENR via a compound nucleus with double magic numbers. J. Fusion Energ. 2007;26:349
[27] Yang X, Miley GH, Flippo KA. Hora H, Energy enhancement for deuteron beam fast ignition of a precompressed inertial confinement fusion target. Phys. Plasmas 2011;18:032703
[28] Holmlid L, Hora H, Miley G, Yang X. Ultrahigh-density deuterium of Rydberg matter clusters for inertial confinement fusion targets. Laser Part. Beams 2009;27:529This shouldn't a surprise for those who have read his papers, but perhaps it might be for others that don't see any apparent relation between Holmlid's work and LENR experiments from other authors. Basically, Holmlid is writing here that they're related each other.
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This shouldn't a surprise for those who have read his papers, but perhaps it might be for others that don't see any apparent relation between Holmlid's work and LENR experiments from other authors. Basically, Holmlid is writing here that they're related each other.
I totally agree with this and I would not be surprised if in near future will be proved that Rydberg Hydrogen (as an intermediate) and UDH/UDD are the essential fuels for most of the effects.
The only exceptions are the experiments that have been claimed to have COP > 1.0 that have crossed by desk are those of Dr. Tadahiko Mizuno
He uses nano-structured pure Nickel and Hydrogen/Deuterium in a very pure environment.
But maybe the Hydrogen plasma used in his experiments created Rydberg Hydrogen/UDH/UDD as well for just enough time.
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Rydberg hydrogen is the name for excited hydrogen atoms, which can also form in a plasma, or more in general when ions and electrons recombine. My understanding from Holmlid's work is that if a large enough amount of Rydberg atoms can form, Rydberg matter (a metastable phase of matter composed of Rydberg atoms) can also form, but also that its formation needs a surface for these collectively excited atoms to "condense" on in order to succesfully complete. The formation of Rydberg atoms and matter catalyzes also that of other gases and molecules (e.g. hydrogen). Hydrogen RM eventually spontaneously transitions to the ultra-dense form also responsible for most LENR anomalies.
The Fe2O3-K catalysts used by Holmlid (or more in general, certain alkali-doped metal oxides) have the unique property of directly emitting from their surface K ions and Rydberg K. This can be defined for all intents an purposes a K plasma that catalyzes the formation of excited states and Rydberg matter of hydrogen atoms adsorbed on the surface of the catalyst and in its close vicinity.
Given the process that is understood to be occurring with Holmlid's experiments, I don't think that plasma-based LENR is a completely different unrelated subject. If anything there might actually be more in common that it seems at first. -
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Rydberg hydrogen is the name for excited hydrogen atoms, which can also form in a plasma
The Rydberg matter which prof. Holmlid is talking about are atoms with circular orbitals similar to hydrino or Bohr model of atoms. They result from careful excitation of atoms in such a way, the electrons will remain on the verge of full ionization.
The formation of such an atoms has been described multiple-times, they just require rather complex magnetic traps devices and precisely tuned masers (i.e. sources of microwave spectrum, where these atoms absorb) for to prepare them in high yield.
These atoms are characteristics by their large size (hundreds of nanometers), because the electrons revolve the atom nuclei at very large distance like planets in solar system. Because they're propagating slowly, their wave character is suppresed and
these electrons really revolve rather like particle (followed with its pilot wake wave of vacuum), rather than wave undulating across whole atom.
These properties may look exotic for someone, but they all follow from classical quantum mechanics and therefore it's nothing very strange about it from this perspective.
Therefore what I don't understand is, why such atoms should form very compact and dense stable matter, while they're expanded and very fragile instead and such an atoms shouldn't form with crude experiments with laser beams.
One clue may be just in the fact, the electrons within these atoms are poorly delocalized, so that these atoms exhibit very strong EM momentum. From this reason they should radiate strongly into outside and being prone into fast decay.
But the same behavior could lead into strong cohesion of atoms due to London dispersive forces. Therefore it's possible, that these atoms are present inside the ball lightning, which are often conspicuous by their orange or red color.
Due to low energy of electron transitions within Rydberg atoms, these atoms should also radiate close to infrared spectrum rather than with black body spectrum.
But even after then both density, both stability of Rydberg matter is nothing spectacular (the ball lightning decay fast ) so the Holmlid experiments would require additional physics for their full explanation.
One clue may follow from dense aether model, in which the entanglement is of scalar wave shielding nature and the low-dimensional artifacts should get entangled stronger.
From nature of Rydberg atoms follows, their electron encircle them along circular paths rather than spheres, these atoms therefore tends to be very flat. Also the dipole forces mentioned above would get enhanced at the plane of electron rotation.
Another possibility is, the Rydberg orbitals of these atoms are intertwined into form of Boromean rings or similar artifacts, which would increase their stability and density even more.Such an atoms would get entangled within flat lattice, which could be therefore more dense and compact, than the normal entanglement allows.
This is the only possible option - because the Rydberg atoms are otherwise sparser, than the normal atoms - so that they shouldn't form very dense form of matter. -
The Rydberg matter which prof. Holmlid is talking about are atoms with circular orbitals similar to hydrino or Bohr model of atoms. They result from careful excitation of atoms in such a way, the electrons will remain on the verge of full ionization.
The formation of such an atoms has been described multiple-times, they just require rather complex magnetic traps devices and precisely tuned masers (i.e. sources of microwave spectrum, where these atoms absorb) for to prepare them in high yield.
This is true, but it doesn't seem that in his case this excitation occurs in a very careful manner; the formation of circular Rydberg states here seems to automatically happen as a result of a large production of low-l Rydberg atoms. InConditions for forming Rydberg matter - condensation of Rydberg states in the gas phase versus at surfaces (paywalled) Holmlid explains:
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The l-quantum number generally increases the distance of electron from center of atom, i.e. it's excitation energy number. The problem here it, the more distant electron gets from proton, the less stable its path gets, because the steps between ionization energy levels decrease with distance. Another problem is, such an electrons becomes more susceptible to spontaneous interaction with charge of another electrons or atom nuclei, because it gets localized and atom gains magnetic momentum. Therefore the Rydberg atoms of higher quantum numbers aren't able of stable life without supporting microwave field and the practical attempts for Rydberg atom preparation always consist of equilibrium between pumping of atoms inside well tuned and stable microwave field cavity and their spontaneous de-excitation.
The collision with neighboring atoms and ions have no hardwired mechanism for increasing of l-number and distance of electrons from atom nuclei - as these collisions may result into acceleration of de-excitation as easily. On the contrary, in serious, i.e. well controlled experiment the successful preparation of Rydberg states requires their purification, i.e. the fast separation of atoms in lower quantum numbers, which serve as a quenchers of Rydberg states by their removal from Rydberg condensate with magnetic trap. Therefore I can see no apparent mechanism for spontaneous stabilization of Rydberg atoms with surrounding matter, once the supporting microwave field gets disabled. If these observations are real, then there must be some additional physical trick or mechanism, which I'm not aware of in this moment.
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For me the recipe for successful formation of Rydberg condensate must be exactly the opposite: i.e. the simultaneous excitation of many atoms at the same energy level and quantum number, so that they can remain entangled mutually in such a way, the energy levels for their mutual interaction remain all the time lower, than the steps between energy levels of ionization energy of individual atoms. Every atom at different energy level would act like the poison of Rydberg state and it would destabilize such a condensate in wide neighborhood of it. Which leads into isothermal excitation of very cold boson condensate established from its very beginning. Actually the existing mainstream experiments mostly utilize similar strategy based on careful excitation of well cooled boson condensates with chirped microwave pulses of gradually decreasing frequency. Such a chirped pulses could be established inside the plasmoids formed with laser pulses, which would behave like the fast expanding resonators.
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The l-quantum number generally increases the distance of electron from center of atom, i.e. it's excitation energy number. The problem here it, the more distant electron gets from proton, the less stable its path gets, because the steps between ionization energy levels decrease with distance. Another problem is, such an electrons becomes more susceptible to spontaneous interaction with charge of another electrons or atom nuclei, because it gets localized and atom gains magnetic momentum. Therefore the Rydberg atoms of higher quantum numbers aren't able of stable life without supporting microwave field and the practical attempts for Rydberg atom preparation always consist of equilibrium between pumping of atoms inside well tuned and stable microwave field cavity and their spontaneous de-excitation.
I think you might be mistaking principal quantum number n, which defines the excitation or the distance of the electron from the nucleus, with the quantum number l, which defines the shape of the orbit of the electron.
As far as I know the lifetime of low-l Rydberg states tends to be quite short, but it scales with the principal quantum number n as n3. The lifetime of circular states scales with n5, so for Rydberg states with a large n with a quick calculation you can see it can be several order of magnitude larger than non-circular states. Here's a source citing this. The diameter of Rydberg atoms also scales with n2, so interaction between Rydberg states is more likely to occur than other ones.
The collision with neighboring atoms and ions have no hardwired mechanism for increasing of l-number and distance of electrons from atom nuclei - as these collisions may result into acceleration of de-excitation as easily.
There might not be hardwired mechanisms but papers from other authors where this phenomenon is observed are cited. I haven't read them in depth but I'm inclined to trust what the abstracts seem to hint. Here are links to the cited papers (references 36-38). Your mileage may vary:
http://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.468936
https://journals.aps.org/pra/a…/10.1103/PhysRevA.47.3913
https://journals.aps.org/prl/a….1103/PhysRevLett.86.3993
For me the recipe for successful formation of Rydberg condensate must be exactly the opposite: i.e. the simultaneous excitation of many atoms at the same energy level and quantum number, so that they can remain entangled mutually in such a way, the energy levels for their mutual interaction energy level remain all the time lower, than the steps between energy levels of ionization energy of individual atoms - which leads into isothermal excitation of very cold boson condensate from its very beginning. Every atom at different energy level would act like the poison of Rydberg state and it would destabilize such a condensate in wide neighborhood of it. Actually the existing experiments utilize similar strategy with excitation of boson condensates with chirped of microwave pulses of gradually decreasing frequency.
This doesn't seem to be too different from what Holmlid also writes. Rydberg matter formation is more likely to occur if the Rydberg atoms from which it's to be formed have the same excitation state; this is also in the same paper I cited in the previous post. This condition is according to him more likely to be fulfilled on the surfaces from where Rydberg states form in his case.
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I think you might be mistaking principal quantum number n, which defines the excitation or the distance
Yes, that's correct. The l-quantum number increases the number of nodes of quantum wave at the perimeter of quantum wave, not diameter of it. But until the constant of Coulomb force doesn't change, it requires to increase the diameter of electron orbital accordingly.
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This very interesting document from phys.org where UV light/Rhodium Nanocubes is used to trigger a purely chemical reaction rather reminded me of Holmlid.'s work. The interesting thing here is that the specific desired reaction is more readily achieved at room temperature using a UV light trigger, than at elevated temperatures. From a purely chemical point of view, very interesting.
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Yes, the principle is in simple photoreduction of water or another oxides. It's worth to note, that iron oxides similar to these ones used by Holmlid are also photoactive
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I feel this has to do more with nanoplasmonics than Holmlid's work.
Here constant UV light is converted into electrons by the nanoparticles, which affect the chemical reactions involved with them.In Holmlid's case laser pulses serve mainly to violently disrupt the ultra-dense hydrogen layer (also on flat surfaces), which exists before the laser is used.
If there's a correlation with Holmlid's work it might be through Etiam Oy. In their patent they suggest that local electric fields are greatly enhanced at sharp edges and nanotips, and such fields are both able to ionize hydrogen atoms in contact with it and forming Rydberg hydrogen, as well as "destabilize" Rydberg matter and inverted Rydberg matter (now known as ultra-dense hydrogen), depending on their strength. Visible and IR photons may also form surface plasmon polaritons that proceed along those features, reportedly improving the reaction by enhancing the local electric field strength.
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I posted an observation along these lines in another thread; here's the underlying reasoning.
In the paper Phase transition temperatures of 405-725 K in superfluid ultra-dense hydrogen clusters on metal surfaces by Holmlid and Kotzias (open access), there are these interesting statements:
QuoteDue to the large difference in scale between the ultra-dense material and the carrier surface (typically 2 pm instead of 200 pm for the carrier), many novel effects may be possible. It means for example that an entire chain cluster H2N may fit in between two metal atoms on the surface, and that diffusion of small clusters into the surface may be fast.
One cannot really appreciate the implications of this until it's visualized with a diagram. After doing so it's apparent that if small clusters of ultra-dense material could diffuse rapidly into the bulk as the excerpt above seems to suggest, this would result in an enormous amount of hydrogen being loaded, compared to what would be normally possible with regular Hydrogen even at an H/Me atomic ratio of 1. If potentially hundreds of times more hydrogen atoms than metallic atoms could fit between atoms in the lattice, the density of the metal could increase macroscopically and this could be used as an indirect proof of the existence of ultra-dense hydrogen.
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Imagine what would happen when a section of the lattice would be saturated with UDH or UDD and next the temperature would be increased rapidly or another trigger occurs to discomfort UDH / UDD.
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This also goes back quite a few years- this is deuterium fusion...but using pyroelectric chrystal triggers. And peer-reviewed!
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I suspect that one would have to handle such sample with care. Ultra-dense deuterium has been already shown to produce muon emission spontaneously (on its own), without any trigger. However it's not clear if the same would happen with ultra-dense protium without some sort of trigger as Holmlid hasn't checked spontaneous emission with it yet. If not, p(0) would be safer to store and transport than D(0).
As a side note, if the diffusion of ultra-dense hydrogen clusters mentioned in my previous comment is actually able to occur deep into the bulk, it would be possible to arrange a reactor made just for the purpose of "loading" it into materials that aren't catalysts/active on their own (for example plain foils, wires, bars or even coarse powder).
You're referring to the Etiam Oy patent, correct? They also suggest the possible usage of Pyroelectric crystals for their reaction.
The difference with paper by Naranjo et al. is that the latter aren't showing break-even fusion nor producing Rydberg matter (intentionally, at least), "only" a way to achieve fusion conventionally with a compact device.
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Regarding a recent article on "Starts with a bang" : Recent Claims Invalid: Emergent Gravity Might Deliver A Universe Without Dark Matter (Synopsis)
Axil states:
QuoteDisplay MoreThe growing acceptance of Erik Verlinde’s work indicates to me a turning away from the particle based paradigm that has fixated physics and cosmology for so long. It is being more widely recognized that quantum entanglement forms the basis of reality and that the nature of space/time emerges from it. Like gravity, even the other previously considered fundamental forces of nature emerge from the properties of entanglement. This includes not only gravity but also the strong and weak forces which will be found to also emerge from entanglement.
By manipulating entanglement, engineering may open up new vistas of nuclear force control. The field that is emerging to do this engineering is called Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).
Bye bye supersymmetry.
Denier replies:
Quoteaxil wrote:
The field that is emerging to do this engineering is called Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).
I’m not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that emergent force is a scam like Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)? Are you saying the physicists investigating those lines of inquiry are like the LENR con-artists trying to steal money from the gullible? Can you clarify how you think those theorists to be thieves like those pushing LENR? I’m just not seeing it.
Axil then states:
QuoteDisplay More@Denier
Yes, sadly human nature is so weak and despicable and what you say holds truth, and yet there are some noble exceptions whose magnanimous souls and angelic nature love truth for its own sake and show unselfish altruism if encouraged. The outputs of LENR are mostly strange matter mesons, pion and muons. Excess heat is not always produced by the LENR reaction.
Leif Holmlid, one of those pure and rare souls who has devoted his life to science and the pursuit of truth will attempt to show subatomic particle production this summer by placing a miniaturized version of his experiment inside a full scale particle detector in an attempt to document how a chemical catalyst can produce subatomic particle emissions. One of his associates who is working on downsizing his experiment told me about this effort to be attempted this summer.
I have discounted LENR as a viable and egalitarian energy technology. This unregulated and widespread common usage of the LENR reaction seems to be the dream and objective of all LENR developers. But at the end of the day, I doubt that this dream will come to pass.
Rossi, Industrial Heat, their big moneyed hangers on, and all the other LENR developers will be heartsick when they realize that they will need to dance to the tune of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and the electric utility industry, all their best efforts and monumental investments will have come to naught. Their dreams of unlimited wealth like riches, beyond the dreams of avarice will be sundered into dust.
On the other hand, the impact on science will be great when LENR theory is well understood and this new found understanding will drive science in new and revolutionary directions far and away in importance beyond any significance that LENR based energy production will catalyze. But the research of Holmlid will capture most of those scientific discoveries more readily than any LENR based reactor will. Like its kissing cousin – nuclear engineering, it is now apparent that LENR cannot meet the aspirational goals of over unity energy production, such as simple, uncomplicated, direct, home based, unregulated and widespread common usage.
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As a side note, if the diffusion of ultra-dense hydrogen clusters mentioned in my previous comment is actually able to occur deep into the bulk, it would be possible to arrange a reactor made just for the purpose of "loading" it into materials that aren't catalysts/active on their own (for example plain foils, wires, bars or even coarse powder).
Looking to Rossi, although not taken seriously anymore, and even Soininen, recommending Nickel powder that seems to be optimized when particle size is in the range of 5 um, there would be a limited penetration depth possible.
Personally I strongly think that penetration of UDH is an absolute must in the case of using Nickel powder (Rossi, Soininen).The preparation will require very specific measures though. Hydrogen atoms or even Hydrogen Rydberg matter would also like to penetrate Nickel lattices.
A mix of Hydrogen Rydberg, Hydrogen atoms and UDH within the Nickel lattices may not be desirable to obtain fusion alike effects after triggering.
In my view UHD would be produced and penetrate under low temperature and low gas pressure ("Holmlid conditions"). Hydrogen atoms prefer high temperature and high gas pressure. These characteristics could help in preparing what is desired.
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Quote from Axil
Leif Holmlid, one of those pure and rare souls who has devoted his life to science and the pursuit of truth will attempt to show subatomic particle production this summer by placing a miniaturized version of his experiment inside a full scale particle detector in an attempt to document how a chemical catalyst can produce subatomic particle emissions. One of his associates who is working on downsizing his experiment told me about this effort to be attempted this summer.
I have been indeed told by Sveinn Ólafsson that he's working on a portable apparatus which could be used to quickly demonstrate the effect in different laboratories (so that they won't have to set up experiments from the ground up every time), but from what I understand reports about this work aren't going to be prepared in the short term. Even if they manage to get an experiment running by this summer, it would probably be wise to not expect news about it in the same period.
