Rossi vs IH: (Update: Sep. 9 20– James A. Bass now a Third Party in IH’s Counter Complaint)

  • This is where Rossi's supposedly great businessman mirage fades into a sea of sand.
    The whole arrangement is stupid. The Customer, asking to be invoiced is clearly weird.
    The Plant should have been leased to Leonardo, and solely the sale of energy been contracted with JMP. Why should JMP lease the Plant and a bunch of operators? They are only interested in the steam energy.
    Rossi is the representative in Florida for the Plant, and for IH in regards to Plant operations.
    Rossi/Leonardo should have been invoicing the customer on behalf of IH, based on energy output. The customer presumably can measure input, and complain if they do not agree with the output billings.
    The customer should have been paying the Plant operator, who then remits payments to IH based on the lease conditions of the Plant with IH.

  • Separately I must disagree with your characterization of Peter as “totally confused”. His words may be confusing, and his blog is confusing at times but he seems a humble and kind man.


    Gluck quoted this in his blog today. I gather he considers himself humble and kind. I wrote a response:


    Quote

    Do not flatter yourself. You are not humble or kind. You are a pain in the butt, and you have been for as long as I have known you. When I bought you computer equipment and gave you money years ago, you paid me back then with a kick in the butt. I learned to expect that from you. You talk as if you were humble, but in fact you are egotistical, and a damned ingrate.


    If anyone other than Rossi had told you that he has a machine that produces 1 MW but the room does not get hot, and he has a secret endothermic process that swallows up all the heat, you would say that's a ridiculous lie. You are an engineer; you know it is impossible. Yet because it is Rossi who tells you this, you slavishly believe it. You are disgrace to engineering.


    Gluck is not unusual in this regard. I have bought a lot of stuff for a lot of researchers over the years. Tens of thousands of dollars worth. Generally, when you do something good for a scientist or a programmer his response is to kick you in the ass and insult you in public. That's how they roll. The only exception I know are the people at MFMP. It does not bother me because I am not giving them the money for their own benefit. I am giving it to them to further the progress of cold fusion. Unfortunately, they often ask for the money for one experiment and then piss it away on some other unrelated experiment that I consider useless.


    That is also how scientists respond when you spend a week copy editing their paper and pointing out dozens of mistakes. A few of them have done that so often, I refuse to edit their work. (You can see who they are. Read the proceedings and look for fractured English.)

  • This is where Rossi's supposedly great businessman mirage fades into a sea of sand.
    The whole arrangement is stupid. The Customer, asking to be invoiced is clearly weird.


    And then "reasonable arrangements" were suggested. A ha ha! 8o Ahahahhahahahha.! :S


    This was another Rossi "masterpiece." Actually, I think Vaughn looked at this and thought, "Whatever, Andrea." The Terms Sheet (Exhibit 17) does not mention the issue of how power delivery is determined or billed. This is in the Counter-Complaint:


    Quote

    76. Industrial Heat would not have entered into the Term Sheet agreement had it known that JMP was not a real operating company, that JMP actually had no commercial use for the steam power generated by the Plant, or that JMP was created solely as a ruse to induce Industrial Heat to ship the Plant to Florida.
    77. JMP’s role in the scheme magnified when JMP started sending falsified invoices to Industrial Heat stating the amount of energy or steam JMP was purportedly receiving and using from the Plant during a given month. A selection of the invoices is attached hereto as Exhibit 18.


    That the customer requested an invoice protected IH from any claim of non-delivery of power.
    Exhibit 18 is hilarious. The letterhead for the first invoice request provided by Johnson, July 1, 2015, for the month of June, had, for letterhead:


    J.M. Products, Inc.
    "Advanced Derivatives of Johnson Matthew Platinum Sponges."


    Johnson is a mystery to me. He is Rossi's real estate attorney, apparently. My suspicion is that Rossi lied to him about what was going on, asked him to play a harmless charade, told him nothing about the $89 million GPT, just as he didn't tell IH about "GPT" in setting up the move to Doral. Those invoice requests are not necessarily "falsified." He simply reported what Rossi told him. This was based on whatever number of 250 kW Tigers were supposedly running. It is obviously not actual power as measured -- by anyone. My strong suspicion is that none of this matches up with the Penon Report.


    (However, to address a possible error: the GPT criteria did not require a Megawatt. The requirement was for COP. So, amusingly, Item 11 on the Terms Sheet talks about the "1 mW plant". As long as the input power was under 160 microwatts or so, this would satisfy the GPT. There are many examples of how insane the whole Agreement was. As well, I notice that Johnson billed at power times days, always the power being "750 KWh/h" or "1 MWh/h." That is a Rossi trope. It means 750 kW and 1 MW. Then the corresponding dollar rate is multiplied by 24 hours at the dollar rate for the nominal power. This is simply a confirmation that the figures came from Rossi, which is utterly no surprise. There is no clue that the customer had any means of measuring power and energy.)


    IH claims they did not suspect that the customer was fake. I find that somewhat plausible. By this time, the Plant was an expensive device for keeping a floor from blowing away in a tornado, and Rossi's masterpiece was attractive. Why look a gift horse in the mouth? No GPT was mentioned, and that is the fatal flaw, the glaring Achilles Heel, of the Rossi case. The only evidence that the Doral plant was a GPT is Rossi Says, so far. We have not seen the Penon correspondence Rossi mentions. At that point the Plant was already in Florida. It's the only place, I suspect, where Rossi might have slipped something by. However, I suspect that had "Guaranteed Performance Test" been mentioned, Darden would have exploded. As he said in 2015, he would accommodate eceentric inventors "within reason."


    I notice that the Terms Sheet explicitly rents, not the 250 KW Tigers actually used in the faux Test, and for power billing, but the original 1 MW Plant delivered in August, 2013. There were two plants installed. There is at least one photo where you can see the Tigers in the foreground, installed in a central shelving unit, and the old E-Cats in the background, installed on shelves to the outside.


    Rossi, the Movie, is going to be a comedy, the Keystone Cons.

  • I can't imagine a lawyer writing up those odd-looking invoices with weird use of language. More like cut and paste what was given to him, maybe.
    The requests for invoicing are so odd-looking and of such amateurish quality that I wonder if Johnson had ever seen them before they went into evidence.

  • I can't imagine a lawyer writing up those odd-looking invoices with weird use of language. More like cut and paste what was given to him, maybe.
    The requests for invoicing are so odd-looking and of such amateurish quality that I wonder if Johnson had ever seen them before they went into evidence.


    I'd think that Rossi wrote them and he just signed. Hmmm.... There are some signature anomalies, but, prolly Johnson.


    I hope IH did invoice, and JMP paid, because then the money trail will be, let's say, interesting. Johnson will be getting some pointed questions to answer, under oath.


    I predict Johnson bails. He has way too much to lose if he doesn't. We can notice he has his own attorney, shared with Fabiani. That may change, because their interests may diverge. Or they both bail. They might be able to walk away fairly intact if they do that without waiting much longer.

  • Hi all


    It interesting to note the memory failures of certain people when they spent many a post harping on about Mr Bass being a fiction.


    It is extremely funny watching them tie themselves in Gordian knots of explanation, empty threats and obfuscation :D :D :D


    Truth is much easier.


    Kind Regards walker

  • (tried to post this as a reply to an Abd post but I see there is no link to it
    The post I am wanting to reply to was posted about 20 hrs ago and starts
    off with a ref to a point from Shane D.)


    This is a very well worded and reasoned post. Classic Abd.


    Very clear and up-to-date assessment of the reality of the Rossi/IH situation.


    I do remind us all that it is a jury trial and as such, strange things happen in these in the US.
    The jury at best might be able to make sense of the contract details but it is clearly and logically
    obvious that the question of Rossi's LENR working as claimed by Rossi is beyond a jury and judge.
    In fact, that question 'seems to be' near impossible to get an answer to. And, the reasons for that
    can vary from a) it doesn't work, to 2) it might work, but Rossi's personality and his actions prevent
    him from letting anyone prove it.


    Thanks for taking the time and effort to put out such a rational and informative assessment.


    Doug Marker (DSM)

  • Quote from Rigel: “Separately I must disagree with your characterization of Peter as “totally confused”. His words may be confusing, and his blog is confusing at times but he seems a humble and kind man.”
    Gluck quoted this in his blog today. I…


    I responded to today's Gluck post at Peter Gluck, Blogger-Advocate for Rossi <-- link, et seq.

  • It interesting to note the memory failures of certain people when they spent many a post harping on about Mr Bass being a fiction.


    It is extremely funny watching them tie themselves in Gordian knots of explanation, empty threats and obfuscation


    I'm adding Walker to those I block, far too many useless posts with far too much hostile fantasy.


    If one reads the Second Amended Answer carefully, there is no sign that Bass has been found. Rather, IH simply decided to refer to this person, whoever he is, as James A. Bass ("Bass") instead of John Doe ("James A.. Bass"? They then say what they say about Bass's residence, for example, as being in Florida "on information and belief." This is almost meaningless. Bass has not appeared before the court, which probably indicates that he hasn't been found. I suspect that Johnson's attorney told IH that they did not know where he was. Hence the conditional subpoena to T-mobile.

  • Jed,


    I think maybe you and Peter should back off a bit, and introduce some civility to your feud. You both are insiders, respected in the field, therefore instrumental going forward, and as such should consider how onlookers view your words.

  • (tried to post this as a reply to an Abd post but I see there is no link to it
    The post I am wanting to reply to was posted about 20 hrs ago and starts off with a ref to a point from Shane D.)


    Perhaps it was this: Rossi vs IH: (Update: Sep. 9 20– James A. Bass now a Third Party in IH’s Counter Complaint) <--- link


    I found it by looking at my Profile and looking back the accumulated number of hours. The profile list shows the first line or so of the post.


    Quote

    This is a very well worded and reasoned post. Classic Abd.


    Thanks.


    Quote

    ... I do remind us all that it is a jury trial and as such, strange things happen in these in the US. The jury at best might be able to make sense of the contract details but it is clearly and logically obvious that the question of Rossi's LENR working as claimed by Rossi is beyond a jury and judge.


    In fact, that question 'seems to be' near impossible to get an answer to. And, the reasons for that can vary from a) it doesn't work, to 2) it might work, but Rossi's personality and his actions prevent him from letting anyone prove it.


    I agree with the assessment. One thought: I've been saying that the "hairdresser question" -- does it or doesn't it? -- would not get to a jury, but it might, in the countersuit against Penon. If they find Penon and he appears.


    Rossi doesn't get any money because it wasn't a GPT. But IH claims that Penon's work was fraudulent. That's about the actual performance of the Plant!


    As well, Fabiani and Johnson might supply more information, Fabiani especially. It is going to be fascinating to see their Answers.


    What has come out in Rossi v. Darden has amply confirmed, with strong evidence, what many suspected: Rossi cannot be trusted. He does not keep his agreements, and can clearly be deceptive.


    It's been suspected (by friends!) that he deliberately creates the impression of being a fraud. Consider that. If true, he is a fraud of some kind!


    If people want to support his experiments, fine, but far fewer are now hanging their hopes on him. If he can convince Hydro Fusion to fund him, after this mess, that's between him and them and they could never say they were not warned. If he is successful, that's great! Status quo, IH has a licence and would make so much money that they might toss him $89 million even if it isn't due for the technical reasons we have explored. Basically, that could be worked out. If he actually has a product! It simply is not IH's problem any more, unless Rossi pulls a rabbit out of that hat.

  • @IH Fanboy,
    Because all of Rossi's other friends have left him.
    ...................

    Andrea Rossi
    June 14, 2016 at 6:05 PM
    Toulmin:
    Hydrofusion always works in parallel with us.
    Nobody of the great Team that made the 1 year long test to the 1 MW
    E-Cat is working with me anymore. They were men of IH and, for obvious
    reasons, cannot work with us.
    But all of them are professionally very good.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Leonardo et al (Lawsuit): 71. On February 15, 2016, the Guaranteed Performance test was successfully concluded. ...(snip)...
    .......................

    Andrea Rossi
    February 17, 2016 at 7:44 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=60#comment-1152786
    Blanche:
    Wed Feb 17 2016, 07.43 a.m.
    1 MW E-Cat : charges substitution on course
    E-Cat X: in good standing, very promising
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    .........................


    IH et al (Exhibit 5) : INITIAL QUERIES FOR M. ENG. FABIO PENON AS TO MEASUREMENTS OF 1 MW PLANT (at 7861 NW 46th Street, Doral, Florida; February 16-17, 2016)
    M. Eng. Fabio Penon:
    I wanted to raise with you, and I was hoping you would address, several issues that
    surfaced during the time we were in Doral at the location of the 1 MW Plant. This is not an
    exhaustive list of the issues I identified or that we discussed, but they do represent some of the
    more glaring concerns that were identified.
    ...(snip)...
    4. System alterations on the night of February 16 or the morning of February 17.
    As reflected in the images shown in the last two exhibits, the system was altered after you
    and we left the location on February 16. The water level in the reservoir tank is clearly different
    as between (a) late in the afternoon of February 16, after you had instructed that the system be
    shut down, and (b) on the morning of February 17, when you continued to conduct your
    measurements and you collected your measurement equipment. See Exhibit D. Also, the pump
    water lines in the reactor compartment contained biofoul in the lines on the afternoon of
    February 16, but those lines were flushed sometime thereafter and were clean as of the morning
    of February 17. See Exhibit E. How can you opine as to your measurements of the system when
    the environment was altered during your measurement period?

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
    If he can convince Hydro Fusion to fund him, after this mess, that's between him and them and they could never say they were not warned.



    Right, so why is the IH camp sooooo concerned about Hydro Fusion supporting Rossi? Somehow I don't think it is for altruistic reasons.


    Who is the "IH camp," and who is "sooooo concerned"? I have no problem with Hydro Fusion supporting Rossi. I may think it foolish, but it is quite as I wrote, and what Hydro Fusion does is up to them and if there is a problem, it will be between their management and shareholders. Rossi v. Darden stands as a red flag for any investor considering working with Rossi, in addition to all the other past events, such as the Italian Licensee and others. There is some possibility that Rossi actually has an effect, but the evidence has become strong that he is concealing his "secret," if there is one, even with someone who had fully met his offer and spent up to $20 million or so to that end (certainly much more than $11.5 million that actually went to Rossi).


    So someone who wants to deal with Rossi may choose to demand clear and independent evidence before making any major investment, even in testing. If Rossi has a real effect, he could make that happen. So this is all fair.


    In dealing with children, this is called "natural consequences" and a wise parent learns to step out of the way, protecting children only from the most serious consequences. "Natural consequences" is also the recommendation for those dealing with addicts and others with mental or social disorders, protecting them only from major harm, while allowing them to see it coming, and protecting others from harm as well.


    Rossi's paranoia is a tragic affliction. Those who support his fears harm him. Caution and prudence, yes. But Rossi has moved far out of that territory. I just noticed a "supporter" for Peter Gluck:
    EGO OUT, SEP 21, 2016 LENR WHY I DISLIKE SHODDINESS?


    Quote

    HRavenSeptember 21, 2016 at 1:48 PM
    Dear Peter,


    I am from Berlin, Germany. I usually do not comment online but today I felt you might need some cheering up. Let me tell you that you have an important voice out there. I follow your blog almost every day. For me your words are often an inspiration and I am convinced your position regarding the IH/Rossi dispute is wise and rational. Please go on and let your light shine into the world. Don't waste to much energy with those corrupt people. They are not your league ;)


    Best
    H. Raven


    And there were more from "Anonymous" and Marc Ellenbroek. I'll probably add this to the Gluck thread.


    "Those corrupt people" is basically a group including one of the most long-term dedicated supporters of LENR (Jed Rothwell), and probably me, a relative newcomer, but I'll say I'm widely respected -- and have been published under peer review, with a major paper that has had an impact -- and there is a lot more about this visible to LENR community scientists and other people, mostly scientists, but some writers like me and Jed, who subscribe to the invitation-only CMNS mailing list.


    And then Gluck joins in and supports the attack on Industrial Heat, which is now the most visible, major funder of LENR research on the planet. He may think he is supporting LENR, but is attacking those who are actually doing the work, and who did not attack Rossi except in clear and necessary --legally required -- self-defense when sued.


    One of the worst things you can do for a friend is to confirm their fears as being based in reality without solidly grounding them in reality itself. So the man says to his friend, "My wife is driving me crazy." The "friend" says, "Yeah, women! You can't trust them!" Or the woman says to her friend, "I think my husband is cheating on me," and her friend says "Yeah, men are such snakes! They will always betray you if they have a chance."


    (By the way, the opposite advice can be dysfunctional as well. I was actually told "my wife is driving me crazy" by a sponsee, a successful and highly sophisticated psychotherapist, and my reply was "Larry, she can't be driving you crazy, you are already crazy." He laughed and then we were able to look at what was going on. Much later, he discovered that he was actually bipolar, but normally high-functioning, so undiagnosed. Lithium made a huge difference in his life. In a way, he actually was crazy! (I.e., he had a psychological disorder.) Once he accepted that, he could then handle it, and did.)


    As well, the "enablers" on his blog support his identification of lenr-forum as unsafe for good people, who will be, he thinks, hounded and harassed. In fact, lenr-forum is a relatively neutral forum, but simply relatively raw and mostly unmoderated. It is more reliably forum-neutral than e-catworld, which has a collective identity that is, by its very name, highly pro-Rossi. I'm on moderation there -- all my posts must be approved, which delays and tends to suppress conversation -- in spite of having, at this moment, 399 comments and only two that were deleted or rejected. I asked Acland for removal of moderation, because it is obviously a waste of time, anyone with that level of approval would normally be unmoderated. His response was polite: "Thank you for getting in touch. I will take your comments under consideration." Yeah, right. This would actually be a no-brainer, and easily reversible. Instead ... control is maintained. His blog, his right. I've been dealing with forum owners for thirty years. Wanting to maintain control is common. And it burns them out, eventually. Fora that expand and extend participation in management can much more easily survive. Vortex-l may eventually go down because of owner control issues.


    So Peter's paranoia, enabled by "supporters" -- I suspect the comment quoted here might actually have been Rossi, he does things like that, apparently. Or he has someone "on staff" to do things like this. It's possible, and it's funny that so many accuse IH or APCO of having "paid FUDders," when ... it is ridiculously unlikely. All the supposed "fanatics from Planet IH" are obviously volunteers. One, Dewey Weaver, is an IH insider, he's put money into IH, not the other way around. His insider comments have, so far, mostly been verified. None have been found to be deceptive. Jed Rothwell is accused of believing in IH fabrications, especially around the content of the Penon Report, but what Jed was reporting as confidentially received turns out to have been preliminary data from Penon, and Jed claimed it was from Rossi, not from IH. While he could have been fooled (i.e,. a confidential informant is an imposter), we now have everything Jed reported on, other than a bit less specificity, in Exhibit 5, as a description of preliminary Penon data. There is no contrary evidence. Peter is really upset by Jed's conclusions from the data, which are expressed as strong opinions, perhaps over-confident from my point of view, but well within reason. Jed has never lied, that I have seen.