Rossi v. Darden developments - Part 1

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    He has never conducted a successful enterprise.


    I have heard he successfully developed Diesel engines that run on biofuel, and later sold that enterprise for a lot of money. I do not know the details.


    Quote from Mary Yugo

    As for the experiments or tests he conducted that Jed finds inconclusive, they are only inconclusive because Rossi failed to provide adequate data to evaluate them properly.


    The tests I refer to were conducted by other people. In two cases Rossi never visited the test sites as far as I know. I also refer to the first Levi test. Levi claims that Rossi did not participate.

    Quote from oldguy

    yes, it does seem like Rossi is greedy and wants money no matter how much it costs the field


    Funny how my sense is diametrically the opposite: that Rossi is seeking investment solely to advance LENR+, working 16 hour days, and in the twilight of his life. IH, on the other hand, seems like they are in it for the money.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    Funny how my sense is diametrically the opposite: that Rossi is seeking investment solely to advance LENR+, working 16 hour days, and in the twilight of his life.


    This is propaganda from Rossi. His own data and the facts shown in Exhibit 5 prove this is not true. He was not working 16 hours a day. He set up a 20 kW electric heater with a radiator in an empty room, and a fake corporation, in an inept effort to defraud I.H. for $89 million. He was not working 16 hours a day. There was no work to be done on the thing. People who visited saw no work being done. The data is obviously fake, copied from one day to the next for weeks, so he did not even bother to read the instruments once a day. He sat on his butt for months typing nonsense in his website.


    Those are facts shown by Rossi's own data and by the physical evidence in the warehouse. Rossi has given you no evidence to the contrary, and no proof whatever for any of his claims, so you should not believe him. But you will!


    Also, "LENR+" does not exist. It is figment of Peter Gluck's imagination. Real data from real experiments show that Pd-D works better than Ni-H. Ni-H may not work at all. The evidence for it is weak, at best. Most of the claims for it are wrong.

    Bingo. You admit that it is Darden that is listed as owner and not the company Cherokee?????


    I would not doubt that Darden is the owner of Cherokee but that is not the same as Cherokee owning
    IH.


    That would be like saying because Bill Gates owns company X that Microsoft owns company X.

    Quote from oldguy

    In all likelihood, Rossi's patent disclosure failed to meet the legal requirements to allow others skilled in the art to see large COP's as
    he claimed. Again he was required by patent laws to full disclose his best embodiment.


    This is not exactly a "legal" requirement. If the patent fails to allow others skilled in the art, the patent is invalid. That means Rossi made a mistake. It is legally okay to make a mistake in a patent. You cannot be charged with breaking any law or regulation; you are just wrong.


    If it was not a mistake, I suppose that means he deliberately wasted a lot of money getting a patent he knew would be invalid. That would be crazy, not illegal.

    Quote from Rends

    Are you serious? Tom Darden and John Mazzarino are owners of Cherokee!


    Yes, and they are the owners of I.H., but that does not mean Cherokee owns I.H., or vice versa. As pointed out above, if Bill Gates owns a small company in Atlanta (let us say), that does not mean Microsoft owns that company. It means he has ownership positions in more than one company.


    I own a house and a car. The house does not own the car.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    I'll be the first to admit that the available evidence is so far inconclusive.


    Wrong. The data in Exhibit 5 is conclusive. You do not believe it. You think it is a lie. Even assuming you are right and it is a lie, a lie is not the same as "inconclusive."


    The data in Exhibit 5 is exactly the same as Penon's data, and the same as what Rossi described in his interview with Mats Lewan, so I am sure it is truthful.


    Perhaps even you can see that if we assume Exhibit 5 is truthful, then Rossi's claims must be wrong. (Perhaps you do not see this, because you lack technical knowledge.)

    Quote from oldguy

    It is a legal requirement to have a valid patent.
    If you don't meet the requirement the patent can be found invalid.


    I would not call that a "legal requirement" in the sense that you break the law if you fail to meet it. You are breaking of a law of nature, which is not quite the same thing. There is no penalty for filing or being awarded patents that -- it turns out later -- don't work. If someone challenges the patent it will be revoked. But who would bother to challenge a non-working patent? What would be the point? No one wants to replicate a mistake, or try to sell an invention that does not work.

    Quote

    I have heard he successfully developed Diesel engines that run on biofuel, and later sold that enterprise for a lot of money. I do not know the details.


    I have heard that Papp successfully developed fuelless engines and a supersonic submarine. The devil is entirely in the details. In any scam, what you don't get will get you. Maybe someone knows the name of the company and what's happened to it? And where and how the engines are sold? If it even happened, I suspect it was yet another investor scam.


    As for Levi, are you referring to the experiment with liquid coolant and mass flow calorimetry which Krivit challenged correctly for being uncalibrated? The one in which Levi refused to provide details? The one which he failed to repeat even when asked to by no less than Brian Josephson (Josephson said Levi didn't even reply to the email). And I do have those details because I was directly involved in asking Josephson to contact Levi. Anyway, is that the test you are talking about?

    Quote from oldguy

    You assert that IH "have certainly not stolen Rossi technology".
    That leads to a paradox .


    I will simply ask? If they have stolen useful technology- WHERE IS IT?


    Why would a company formed to develop LENR just sit on technology when they could…


    First, I would like to say that the following is CONJECTURE and nothing more. I am NOT stating it is definately the case. We have no hard evidence that I.H. has ever been able to reproduce the Rossi Effect (or for that matter that they have not).


    Right now there is a rapidly growing renewable energy industry spreading around the globe. Solar power systems are being adopted at an ever accelerating rate. In addition, wind and other forms of renewable energy are also growing quickly. Already, billions of dollars have been thrown into these industries and governments are providing billions of dollars in subsidies. Cherokee has connections to these industries in addition to more traditional ones. A powerful LENR technology, such as the E-Cat, emerging right now would throw all of these industries into chaos. This is simply because a dense and portable source of power that operates regardless of time of day or weather conditions does not currently exist. Yes, there are ideas about miniaturizing fission based reactors into systems that could fit into shipping containers. But they are basically non-starters for the most part, because of the use of radioactive elements. The E-Cat represents the first completely safe nuclear technology that could be scaled up or scaled down for any application. When I say "safe" I do not mean there is zero chance of some type of accident (turkey fryers burn down houses every year), but there is zero chance of a Fukushima type meltdown with devastating environmental consequences that could threaten human life.


    I'm certain without any doubt in my mind that Industrial Heat wants to bring LENR technology into the marketplace. Anyone who doubts this is deluded. However, the issue is *how* they want to bring it into the marketplace. Do they want to start mass producing a wide variety of products suitable for every market (from individual homes to industrial plants) and disrupt a dozen different industries (whom they themselves may possibly be heavily invested in or at least many of their close contacts and allies) or do they want to gradually introduce the technology to the world in a slow and controlled manner?


    To be blunt, the first and simplest application for the technology would be lowering the emissions from the dirtiest coal burning power plants in China. I'm not opposed to this at all -- if it is the start of a much broader rapid implementation of the technology at every level of civilization. However, the disruption this could produce might be something IH and many other industries and the powerful ultra-wealthy elites of the world wouldn't like one bit. So in this case, IH would keep their allies and themselves much happier by using all kinds of excuses to keep the introduction of the technology limited to a few power plants. They could bring up all sorts of arguably misleading claims such as the possible "dangers" of LENR, the embryonic state of the technology, the lack of understanding of how it works at the nuclear level, and even make statements about possible weaponization. The result would be a slow introduction of LENR to the world that would give established industries *DECADES* to adapt and ready themselves.


    In this scenario, IH could still make billions of dollars in profits. Meanwhile, their investments or the investments of their allies in other renewable energy industries would be protected.


    Of course if someone doesn't think the E-Cat technology works (not talking about the specific test at Doral) then this makes no sense at all. But if you think that the E-Cat technology has already been proven by third parties to produce excess heat at or above 1000 watts per gram of fuel, it becomes plausible.


    Then again, IH could have honestly never generated excess heat from the IP Rossi transferred to them. I find this unlikely -- unless they performed a short series of tests and gave up -- but it is possible. We just don't have enough information. In this case, they wouldn't be sitting on any LENR technology. They would be trying to develop it in the first place or buy it from inventors.


    All I can say is that if IH didn't perform an extended replication project to produce excess heat from Rossi's IP, it is a crying shame.

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    I have heard he successfully developed Diesel engines that run on biofuel, and later sold that enterprise for a lot of money. I do not know the details.



    I have heard that Papp successfully developed fuelless engines and a supersonic submarine. The devil is entirely in the details.


    I do not know the details, but I know that Rossi got millions, and the Diesel engines are actually being manufactured and sold. That is quite different from Papp's submarine.


    You have a bad habit of saying A might resemble B, therefore it does resemble B, because I say so.

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