I await the results with baited breath.
MFMP: Guess the scientist of new bulletproof experiment
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from: http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…y/#comment-2913579065</a>
georgehants • 7 hours ago
Morning to Bob Greenyer if watching.Bob do you have any update to your hoped for 100% demonstration, sorry to bother you but your announcement has me excited and waiting hopefully.Bob Greenyer • an hour ago (~16:10 PM 23, 2016 4:38 PM UTC +2)
will speak about it during ICCF20.It needs cooperation of a party and for their claims to be true. But it will be 100% conclusive that LENR is real if these pre-requisites are met.georgehants • 31 minutes ago
hanks Bob, fingers crossed. -
Quote from Eric Walker
[...] About replication: it may be that no replication is "needed" in some sense, but it will obviously be needed by any observers who wish to follow up on the result of the experiment if the outcome is a positive one. If this for some reason will not be possible, then we would have instead a magic show, and I think the experiment would be overall counterproductive. Since this will surely be pretty obvious to Bob Greenyer, I'm assuming there will be nothing preventing follow-up replications.
The only reason for replication to not be needed (although I would strongly reccomend that the experiment is replicated) that I can think of would be that the results are general to all working LENR experiments. Since it is about the claims of a certain respected party known to have published many papers and that the test would be about recent published work I suspect it may have to do with those of muon emission of Holmlid, published in 2015 with Sveinn Olafsson. They wrote that this emission could be inherent in LENR systems, or in other words that any working LENR device would show it if properly looked for. Since this effect can normally only be artificially reproduced in a high energy proton accelerator, if it can be demonstrated with a tabletop experiment at low or no input energy then it means that LENR exist without any doubt, and there would be no way to fake it, I believe.
Obviously I could be wrong or biased in my suggestion.
Quote from Abd ul-Rahman Lomax[...] On the positive side, this would almost certainly be palpable heat. The more heat from a certain weight of sealed container, the faster it passes the possibilities of chemistry.
If "it will also work at room temperature" I am not too sure that it will be about heat. -
The only reason for replication to not be needed (although I would strongly reccomend that the experiment is replicated) that I can think of would be that the results are general to all working LENR experiments.
I guess it depends upon the purpose of the demo. If the purpose of the demo is not to convince people of something, but is instead a kind of show-and-tell, then replication by skeptical members of the audience in need of convincing would not be a consideration. If the purpose is to convince people of a claim about LENR, then replication will be needed. That is the empirical method.I would not be surprised if the party in question is either Olafsson or Holmlid. If the demo purports to show muons, be ready for a healthy dose of skepticism that whatever is going off in the detector during the demo is actually muons.
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"The experiment would be a replication of the originators claims and so in itself be a replication"
Bob will replicate Holmlid. The experiment starts with a unactivated holmlid catalyst in a sealed cloud chamber. No vapor trails from charged sub-atomic particles are apparent.
Next, the laser shines through the glass and begins to activate the catalyst. After a time, charged particles begin to be seen coming off the catalyst. The cloud chamber might have a magnetic field that curves the charged particle. Then over time, charge particle production becomes self sustaining and neutral particles produced by fusion are seen in the tracts. These are produced by muon catalyzed fusion. The laser is stopped but the cloud chamber is white with vapor trails of charged particles.
Quote"the challenge is the apparatus has components that I suspect the originator would consider proprietary"
Holmlid will use his muon detector to detect muons as they penetrate the glass of the cloud chamber.
At first when the experiment begins there is not muons detected coming out of the transparent cloud chamber. But as the experiment progresses, the count of muons increase until it reaches a maximum when the cloud chamber is white with muon trials.
Quote"the ash will confirm the live experiment"
"[there] will be evidence in the ash"
"the ash will confirm the live experiment"Now that the catalyst has been activated, the "fuel" can now be partitioned and sent out to other interested scientists who can detect muon production and catalyzed fusion in their own labs. The activated fuel will remain active for months and can be energized and rejuvenated through the application of UV light in the labs of the interested scientists.
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Axil,
I would suggest that is probably wise to keep very open the possibility that the work to be demonstrated at Aarhus is not of Holmlid et al ...
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just sayin that this exitement brings new light to this coming winter and darkness!
I fully trust Mr. Greenyer, so I also fear the consequencies. Hoping for the best. -
Axil,
I would suggest that is probably wise to keep very open the possibility that the work to be demonstrated at Aarhus is not of Holmlid et al ...
We know that the demo will not be based on excess heat production. Who else shows LENR in other unusual and impossible to accept terms? Yes, it could be an electrical based overunity demo like the plasmatron by the fuel must be solid to be partitioned for distribution to other places for a like demo.
Holmlid has been writing papers since the 80s. That is a long time. An the most important characteristic of all, holmlid is open and is not developing a commercial product that is protected by NDA. There are not many of those kind of people around in the LENR community. In fact, Holmlid might be the only one.
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Logically speaking, that makes sense.
That is exactly the problem.
Given the MFMP track record with past announcements I fully expect logic and common sense to be defied.
Consider this: they stated that are going to replicate at Aahrus a somewhat obscure german patent that they hypothesize to be similar to a Rossi QuarkX: https://www.google.com/patents/DE102014014209A1
To me this would not make any sense in light of a planned successful demonstration from Holmlid et al.
You are spot on. Logic is not used much within the LENR community.
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To me this would not make any sense in light of a planned successful demonstration from Holmlid et al.
If you expect this stuff to make sense on a regular basis, you are interested in the wrong kind of research.
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Melvin Miles. The ash is simple helium. I liked this experiment because it went back to basics. Even the now politically incorrect moniker 'cold fusion' got back the respect it deserved, but lost, decades ago. It was truly a Pons and Fleischmann memorial project.
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Melvin Miles. The ash is simple helium. I liked this experiment because it went back to basics.
Nope. No can do. For the same reason in the old British army joke punchline . . .The sergeant says, "Sorry men, we have an exercise this weekend and everyone is confined to base. No liberty." One soldier says, "but sir, my wife is having a baby." Sgt.: "oh well in that case, you may go. Everyone else, fall in!" On Monday the soldier gets back and the sergeant asks, "Well?! What was it? A boy or girl?" Soldier, looking at him as if he were daft, "Sir! It takes months."
Bulk Pd experiments take months to set up, weeks to get going, and a long time to detect the helium. At least it took a long time with 1990s technology, and single-blind testing.
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Come on guys, as Abd says, it is "Cravens balls". First person that came across my mind when Bob floated this. I probably even thought of it before Abd.
Even the critics were confounded by Dennis's last act.
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It appears that MFMP is planning some sort of stunt that will "will prove inside 2 weeks the reality of LENR indisputably and live". I have collected information from that thread. Can you guess whose claims will be tested?
The discussion was held in the…
My guess, or at least one possibility which I think satisfies all of the descriptions given is Mitchell Swartz. He has published many articles in JCMNS, has done demonstrations (with Hagelstein) at MIT, has a company "Nanortech" (http://world.std.com/~mica/nanortech.html) with a COP of 80 (although very low power), and has given numerous talks on his work at ICCF meetings and is I believe scheduled to speak at ICCF20.
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The Craven Balls were fun. But Bob made pretty clear that this is not that. More "visual" is the mantra for this, whatever it may be.
IHFB,
Why are you telling me?...Abd is the one who came up with Dennis Cravens and his balls in the first place.
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Doubt it Shane.
I tickled that subject first.
Although Bobby G seems to have clearly performed an orchiectomy on the whole idea.
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While that would be interesting, I would be disappointed. We need LENR+ energy to solve the big problems of the world.
