ORBO OCUBE: Finally fraud revealed and they are done?

Hello once again.

I was researching the latest news, which tell, that McCarthy is replaced by another guy, and that Steorn is now begging somewhere else for money, also saying, that the development might take further 7 to 10 years.

So, what are Your news ? Do You know some other information sources ?

Hopefully another fraudulent su....r is revealed and will vanish forever.

I only know the one, Frank Acland seemed to have "tested", which seemed not to work, even with additionally sent parts.

That is one of the strangest things, no one else is commenting on his/her experience regarding an already received orbo.

I expected a huge community, which suddenly created a thread on reddit or somewhere else, which can easily be found
by google, where all the customers discuss about their results, tests, or even complain.

It looks like, there is not such community.

Therefore it might be logical to assume, that there were no more cubes/phones shipped, than that one, which Frank received, OR those
forums are inside the deep-web or I do not know, how to use google search engine.

If there are any other customers out there, I suppose, they are just played. That's my comment on this.

EDIT: Sorry, headline must be called "Were there any" ...

I wonder why the hell every weird science topic is brought here. It seems to be common. If one accepts one thing that is not accepted by the "mainstream," then, of course, all things rejected by the mainstream might be real. It's formula for utter insanity. The mainstream is usually right. Just not always!

We have a topic here that links to an Acland post on ECW: ECW Orbo Testing Week 8 — Orbo Cell Now Behaving According to Steorn’s Claims

The link there is now dead. Looks like Acland removed it. Actually, not. He renamed it or the link changed.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…ording-to-steorns-claims/

Frank never updated it with any final results or conclusions or new developments.

http://orbo.com/ has a headline: ORBO TECHNOLOGY - THE BATTERY IS DEAD

the Steorn website is "under construction." http://www.steorn.com/

The history of the Steorn site and the Orbo site have actively been concealed on archive.org. At least for a time, the Orbo site was redirected to a Facebook page, which has been taken down.

Looking for any information on Facebook, I was led to https://www.facebook.com/FreeEnergyTruth/

OMG. Pseudoskepticism is soooo tempting!!!! The latest post with "orbo" in it: https://www.facebook.com/FreeE…058026?match=b3Jibw%3D%3D

May 15 this year. https://www.twitch.tv/orboteam video of live test. Video removed.

Some recent news re Steorn: http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/ Quite an interesting story, and, yes a parallel is made in the most recent post between this situation and Rossi v. Darden. There are links there to Sean McCarthy pages. I have now wasted enough too much time on this today.

Most interested people recognized that Steorn was an obvious and blatant fraud and scam at least since their "demonstration" at the Kinetica Museum in or around 2006! When you read his writing, for example in the Moletrap Forum, Sean McCarthy appears as an obvious sociopathic narcissist and he may be an alcoholic as well. He is certainly a prolific and consistent liar, much like Rossi. Yet, he managed to wrangle more than $20 million from more or less ignorant more or less farmers in Ireland. I used to joke that the only thing those folks had intimate knowledge of was sheep. Once again, just as with Defkalion, Rossi and many more, the so-called pseudoskeptics were right 100% and from very early on.

Quote from Mary Yugo

Once again, just as with Defkalion, Rossi and many more, the so-called pseudoskeptics were right 100% and from very early on.

While there is such a thing as fringe pseudoskepticism, most identified pseudoskepticism takes mainstream opinion, or at least very popular opinion, as the held belief. Because the mainstream is usually right, at least right enough that following mainstream opinion isn't the worst choice to make, it is relatively safe and we should not be surprised if a pseudoskeptical view turns out to be confirmed.

But pseudoskepticism is never actually "scientific." Rather, it follows cargo cult science, appearing to support scientific views that are not actually established by genuine scientific process, but some sort of social process.

The exceptions can be doozies. One of the major skeptical authors is Gary Taubes. He went on to cover Bad Science with dietary issues, starting with salt, and moving on to fat in the diet. He exposes an information cascade that created a "consensus" that had a huge impact, possibly causing millions of premature deaths.

See Tiernan on the informational cascade involved: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/science/09tier.html

I developed prostate cancer, and consider it quite possible that this was the result of low-fat recommendations in the 1980s that led to long-term weight gain and, there are some indications, increased my risk for cancer. My doctor, then, whom I trusted and whom I still consider a great guy, was simply following the "consensus." Later, I had -- and have -- a more informed doctor who, while he told me the "standard of care" that would recommend statins for me, because of high cholesterol, also took me into his office and handed me a copy of a Diabetes text from the 1920s that was very explicit about low-carb, high fat diets for type two diabetes. That became heresy later.

The story, like that of cold fusion, is amazing. Bad Science, indeed. And we have seen debunkers going after low-carb diets as if they were simply a diet fad, instead of what was, previously, quite well-established as functional and effective. There are some debunkers who are genuine skeptics, but the very idea of "debunking" leans toward pseudoskepticism. It is a judgment of people as stupid idiots.

Even if some are, the attitude is arrogant and rigid, and is readily recognizable as such.

Hey, take a look at the discussion on http://ecat-fraud.com/

This site is like moletrap, which was formed as a reaction to the Steorn mishegas, though moletrap had some very knowledgeable participants, writing on moletrap was like speaking up in a bar filled with fanatics with an opposite opinion, though probably a bit safer, since they would not actually break a barstool over one's head. The cartoon main page for moletrap was created in response to my discussions there with Joshua Cude. I used those discussions to develop a more comprehensive understanding of skeptical objections, even though most objection there was pseudoskeptical. Cude is knowledgeable, probably an astrophysicist, though he has denied being the obvious obvious, and knows far more about cold fusion than most pseudoskeptics. His arguments are particularly dangerous if accepted uncritically. He is a pseudoskeptic because of his certainty and total focus on whatever makes cold fusion and cold fusion researchers look bad, with the other side being completely missing.

So, hey, moletrap: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/

Quote from Mary Yugo

Most interested people recognized that Steorn was an obvious and blatant fraud and scam at least since their "demonstration" at the Kinetica Museum in or around 2006! When you read his writing, for example in the Moletrap Forum, Sean McCarthy appears…

For sure he is an alc. The presentations, before the orbo release, were always in a bar. And on the pictures there were gay flags hang up all over the bar.
I also read this thing with 2006... so, we all are doing something wrong.

Let us create a goup. We promise some strange stuff. We go to some crowdfunding-forums and make big advertisement for our idea, whatever it may be.
A lot of "stupid believers" will spend money (this is no insult, this is, how some people just see those supporters).
We take the money, deliver nothing, apologize and are rich.

Seems to work in several examples(Rossi, spacewarpdynamics, rarenergia, some silly esoteric-satanic-religious-lucid-dream-tarot-stuff, ORBO)....
In nowadays it seems really easy to get richt pretty fast on the costs of crowdfunders.

But, for gods sake, I have a too big heart and, what a pitty, I cannot enjoy any success, if others had to suffer from it. That's perhaps my own probolem/weakness.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

I still think, that Steorn technology could work, particularly because many similar devices emerged during it and they all contain graphite in some form.

I looked at the link provided. This led me to this thingie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell and there is a video at

There is an estimate in this article of power consumption: http://motherboard.vice.com/re…ws-how?trk_source=popular

For a rough figure, the charging rate of the "clapper" is reported as about 1 nanoamp. The cycle rate is about 2 Hz, but that is not really relevant either. 1 nanoamp for about 1.5 million hours (175 years) is 1.5 mA-hours. Not at all impressive for a battery. However, the battery must be such as to have low self-discharge rate. So the Oxford Electric Bell is remarkable for two things: the longest-running "scientific experiment," it's been called. I would not exactly call this an experiment, it was a demonstration and curiosity device. The other is that it is possibly the longest-running battery being continuously used.

The battery composition is not known for sure, but there could be many possibilities. There is no indication of any strange effect here, it is just not what we normally expect from batteries!

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The Steorn Orbo project was just killed by poor implementation, based on cheap Chinese components without deeper experience in electronics and testing. Look at the problems Samsung is having. If the proper engineering is not done prior to a product being sold chances are there will be problems. It is just common sense.

Common sense? You would expect common sense from Steorn? "Cheap Chinese components" is totally crazy as an explanation, I'd call it a "cheap shot." This has, again, absolutely nothing to do with the Samsung problems, which, as far as I have seen so far, have not been clearly identified. "Cheap" is also not a decent explanation of the Samsung problem. There can be very rare events that escape ordinary testing, and this appears to have happened with these phones. It is not clearly known if the batteries were the problem. If an event is very rare, "proper engineering" may completely fail to identify it. It happens.

The behavior of the Steorn device appears to have been that it contained internal batteries, trickle charging a capacitor, or something like that. There is zero evidence that this thing actually generated any unusual power.

More than 10 years after announcement, and this was the best they could do? My own hypothesis, years back, was that this was all a device to sell consulting services on how to get a lot of attention with nothing. I wasted quite a bit of time watching Steorn videos that revealed nothing of actual interest, beyond their outrageous claims. They created that "jury" with great fanfare. The jury concluded, "nothing shown." But, hey, hope springs eternal. Just drink some more Guinness and continue unfazed. It's actually brilliant, in that way.

If Frank Acland actually bought one, well, it would just go to show. But if they offered it to him for free, for the publicity, hey, I'd have accepted! Why not? Fun!

However, I would then actually complete a report, I hope. Frank's half-assed job, never completed, really looks bad.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…ording-to-steorns-claims/

comment from Acland there, 8 days ago:

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The units I was sent did not work like they were supposed to. But I have seen some unusual activity in during testing which makes me think they still might have something.

Frank! They have "something!" Now, for extra points, what is it?

Maybe a little acetone and/or methyl ethyl ketone, mechanical abrasion and heat would find out.

The original Orbo effect was allegedly a magnetic anomaly that was harnessed by creating rotary motion that could then generate power. They never got these things to run for more than a little while until the battery ran down. So, now, they have no moving parts, claiming power generation. These guys are amazing geniuses! Two different world-shattering discoveries from the same people! Why aren't we throwing money at them? Maybe they can also cure cancer. Why not? All it takes is a little more Guinness and they can do anything!

And what does this have to do with LENR -- or in Acland's case, the E-cat? Is this Weird Fringe Central? What about those flying saucers and alien abductions?

Steorn's is just another in the long list of absolutely classical free energy scams. An initial announcement including claims that they have a working device and that it has been verified by several universities. No university comes forward and there is never an independent test. More claims, increasing, but the big demo they bring people from all the world for, doesn't work (Kinetica). The reason for the failure is idiotic (overheated bearings) and Steorn won't repeat the experiment (like Levi won't repeat his mass flow calorimetry experiment). Then there is the "bespoke calorimeter" nobody ever saw and the supposed results of that test which make no sense. At the same time, the self running Orbo (Waterways demo) that seems to require a huge NiCad battery and which goes off line regularly so it can be recharged. Finally, ever vanishing claims for power with increasing times, changing devices which also don't work and all the time they burn up $20 million. Could anything be more obviously a scam? Some people don't even believe it when Sean McCarthy all but tells them it's a scam. Not to mention that there is no theoretical path whatever for drawing power from magnets and that this issue has been researched ad nauseam for more than a century.

Only the very most exceedingly terminally gullible people can still think that Steorn ever had anything.

Honest and pure? That's hilarious! Ask his investors about that.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Why do you think so? The first unit of Ackland failed, just because it's Chinese power regulator burned and it shorted the Steorn battery. You have no idea, what are you talking about. I at least followed Ackland's discussion about it.

If you wonder, you must live on a different planet than I.

How do you know how the first unit failed? Acland did not remove the potting. I'm quite experienced with electronics and ordinary Chinese components are high-reliability. I visited China when I adopted my daughter, 14 years ago, and there were billboards all over the place advertising "ISO 9001." "Cheap shot" refers to playing on stereotypes about Chinese products, very old ones.

It is true that I did not read all the Acland posts. So, certainly I could have missed something important, but this claim is ridiculous. Steorn was giving excuse after excuse for failures, as they have for as long as I've been following them, which began in 2006, when I saw their teaser ads.

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To many other people claim similar devices, I would wait with void proclamations and labeling here. These guys have one advantage over you: they're doing real experiments, so that they can still find something unexpected. You don't.

"Similar devices" is a fantasy. This is common: something strange is claimed. Hey, someone else claims something strange! Even if it is a different strange, these get mashed together as if one confirms the other. I covered that 175-year-old battery. Nothing strange, actually, merely unusual.

I also looked at the Karpen pile. Fascinating what is going on there: all the reports treat a maintained voltage as if it were perpetual motion, sustained energy production. A voltage of 1 V is given, which has been staying the same for years. Well, duh! Any battery would do that, if it doesn't self-discharge. The question would be if current is being generated. No current, no power. If there is current, power is voltage multiplied by current. Energy is then power multiplied by time. Hence the calculation I made for that 175-year old experiment. Actually not much energy at all.

For the Karpen pile, nobody writing about it seems to have understood the real question. Not a good sign.

This simple fact seems to have escaped those who have written about this, including PESwiki.

Yes, Frank did some experiments. (That, in itself, good thing!) But he did not clearly report what he found. I did not see that he measured power output, then integrating it. He did not compare this with the hypothesis that internal battery power was the source, through an internal charging circuit. He just ended saying that he could not confirm the Steorn claims, but something strange was going on, so maybe they have something!

That conversion between "something strange" and a favorable conclusion is quite common with pseudoscience. Something unexplained is happening, therefore ghosts. Or new physics or, hey, even cold fusion. Not all cold fusion claims are well founded.

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Maybe because most of people are thinking like you.

Unlikely. I'm off the charts.

This is really obvious. Look at what Zephir AWT is implying. The reason why Steorn's miracle battery charger doesn't work is because they were underfunded because people are too stupid to see the amazing thing they have and throw money at them, so they had to buy cheap Chinese parts, maybe saving a few dollars. For a product selling for how much?

Yes, most people do follow the mainstream. In fact, that is the definition of "mainstream." What most people follow. Human beings have lasted a very long time doing this. The mainstream is usually more-or-less right. That's why it works. Sometimes it's wrong, and information cascades are created. But that is the exception, not the rule.

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They scream about "alien abductions" and similar ad ridicullo fallacies - but are they really interested about to find, what's going on? I'm sorta surprised, that such a people operate just at the LENR forum, which is considered doubtful from its very beginning. We have enough of ignorant lazy skeptics already.

I did not scream about alien abductions, rather I was suggesting that they would be off-topic here. What fallacy?

The point of what I wrote is that it does seem that this forum -- with some others -- tends to bring in all kinds of alt-fringe stuff, as if it was related. That, in fact, results in an impression that those who are following LENR are wacked-out fringe believers, which damages the field, and, yes, this actually happens. It probably happens because once one steps outside the mainstream on one topic, it more-or-less opens the door to more steps the outside.

I am interested in the pair of behavioral conditions, pseudoskepticism and blind belief. I am more offended by pseudoskepticism than by blind belief, because the former is a pretense that rejects the beliefs of others based on one's own beliefs, whereas genuine skepticism -- essential to science -- is skeptical in a different way, it does not accept without evidence. Everyone has beliefs, it is unavoidable, we could not live if skeptical of everything. The harms arise from attachments and arrogance and all that.

The major problem with Steorn is that the impossibility of their claims was far more obvious than anything around LENR or cold fusion. "Far more obvious" does not mean that they were wrong. It means that the contradiction with what we know about energy is deeper, more fundamental. It was quite well known to many scientists in 1989 that cold fusion wasn't actually impossible unless one restricted the definition of "fusion" to a known reaction. It was *still* not impossible, but simply far less likely. The rejection of cold fusion on impossibility arguments was based on an imagination of what the reaction was, which is an obvious logical fallacy.

With Steorn, one runs up against conservation of energy. While, again, absolute impossibility can't be asserted -- there could be some unanticipated condition we are overlooking -- there was nothing about the Steorn idea that made it reasonable to think, say, zero point energy was being tapped. And then I mentioned that this new device, while called Orbo, was using a very different approach. The original effect they claimed would not be operating. Hence they had, if honest and sober, discovered two astonishing phenomena. If the device was failing because of "cheap Chinese parts," the engineering failure here was monumental, not just some ordinary slip. Again, what is the critical component? If it is generating energy, not merely serving up stored energy slowly, this is world-shaking. So they promote it by selling a phone charger that doesn't work? Really?

Honestly, they do have something.

It's called cheek, or chutzpah, and it's actually quite a valuable commodity.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

The small Kinetica Orbo failed, but another 10 kW ones are already promoted.

So Zephir pointed to

And here is my conclusion and choice. The well-produced demonstration looks like one of two things: they have a revolutionary technology, that will change the world drastically, or this is a scam
If they actually have the product that works as they imply, these would have *immediate market* with certain very high-value applications. I wonder, what's their excuse?)

The probability of scam is too high for me to consider investing in it, and I simply don't have the resources, and I could not recommend this to anyone else. If this is real, it will become obvious in short order, and there is really nothing for me to do here, beyond deciding to block Zephir AWT as a generator of time-wasting opportunities for useless discussion. When I'm considering blocking a user, I look at contributions to see if there might be something I'm missing with regard to LENR, which is why I'm here. I looked. No.

I am not a debunker, devoting my time to debunking what others believe in. Sometimes some of what I do has that effect, but it is not my goal.

The discussion here was about Steorn, which Zephir AWT defended, citing the Infinity.sav generator as evidence as if it confirmed Steorn. The general field is "magnetic motors." The Infinity.sav demo video was light-years ahead of Steorn. If that device is for real, and doesn't just run down after a few more minutes, that prototype is a product that could immediately be sold for far more than production cost, and this would then snowball. What is their excuse for delay? I found no clue. The only person I found discussing this was ZephyrAWT. Their Press Releases page was empty. Their Facebook page was down.

I found this, though. It appears to be a generator operating from bouyancy.

It was presented as a "Gravity device based on fluid-air displacement." Few details, but it has every appearance of a classic perpetual-motion scam operating on very different principles. Geniuses! Right? (In fact, there is no claim there and the device may be converting compressed air to motion, the cylinders going down seem to be full of water, then at the bottom, the water is forced out, most of it, and the cylinders are then much lighter. There is no description of what is going on and the videos are not clear enough to see much. But these guys are producing really great videos in some ways! And that could be what they are selling. actually.