Nevalinna on Cobraf : Yeong E Kim funded by Industrial Heat and Cumberland & Western Resources

    • Official Post

    on cobraf, Nevalinna spotted a funding of Yeong E Kim by Industrial Heat
    https://www.purdue.edu/researc…rds/pdf/May2016Awards.pdf

    Kim, Yeong E; physics, from Industrial Heat LLC, $469,327, “Low-Energy Nuclear Reaction Research (LENRR).”


    and by Cumberland & Western Resources


    http://www.purdue.edu/research…-data/research-awards.php

    Yeong E. Kim, from Cumberland & Western Resources, Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, $2,488,596

  • If he follows the bread crumb trail left on this forum by Me356, which is absolutely amazing if you following it from start to finish, he could perform some outstanding tests in a very short time period with all that cash. Heck, for $400,000, he could leap frog beyond Rossi in short order if he was willing to openly disclose his work, discuss findings, and rapidly improve upon it via continual non-stop testing. The E-Cat tech could be verified in short order.


    I just hope IH hasn't advised him to muck around with deuterium-palldium electrolytic systems.

  • Billionaire behind Loveland project - BizWest
    <http://bizwest.com/billionaire-behind-loveland-project/>


    It’s not easy to keep a low profile once you’ve made your first billion, but Brad M. Kelley has been better at avoiding the limelight than most billionaires.


    Kelley is the moneyman behind Cumberland & Western Resources, the Kentucky company that won (and paid $5 million for) the rights to redevelop Loveland’s former Agilent Technologies plant, which is now being called the Rocky Mountain Center for Innovation and Technology.


    Unlike most of his billionaire brethren, Kelley has taken anonymity to a near art form. Cumberland & Western has no website touting its successes. Not only did company vice president Bill Murphree turn down the Business Report’s request for an interview with Kelley, but he strongly suggested that writing about Kelley might have negative consequences for Cumberland & Western’s interest in doing business in Northern Colorado.


    ...

  • If he follows the bread crumb trail left on this forum by Me356, which is absolutely amazing if you following it from start to finish, he could perform some outstanding tests in a very short time period with all that cash. Heck, for $400,000, he could leap frog beyond Rossi in short order if he was willing to openly disclose his work, discuss findings, and rapidly improve upon it via continual non-stop testing. The E-Cat tech could be verified in short order.


    I just hope IH hasn't advised him to muck around with deuterium-palldium electrolytic systems.


    Kim is a theoretical physicist, not an experimentalist. There are two physicists with cold fusion theories involving Bose-Einstein Condensates. Kim has been writing about this for years, so what this is showing is that IH and others are supporting theorists. I'm not sure that's where I'd go first, the big problem with cold fusion theory is that there are too many with not enough data to clearly discriminate between them.


    (Akito Takahashi has also long studied Bose-Einstein Condensates and LENR, and is also an experimentalist, finding a standard 3-body fusion rate elevated 10^26 over naive expectation in palladium deuteride bombarded by deuterons. That was not LENR, perhaps, but showed that classical, over-simplified, predictions were far off.)


    Any cold fusion theory that focuses on what is not well-established (i.e., NiH reactions) and ignores what is far better known (PdD) and, within PdD, electrolytic systems, would be unlikely to find the mechanism.


    With PdD the ash is known, so at least we know what the reaction actually does (based on the preponderance of the evidence, for sure, with work under way to confirm this with increased precision), i.e., it converts deuterium to helium. Kim knows that. With NiH, there has been no correlation between heat and any specific product or class of products. The state of the NiH field is primitive.


    Peter Gluck is treating the reporting of fact about this as if it were an attempt to "kill LENR+." No, it's just being honest and practical. Nobody is trying to stop NiH research, and it is included in that major Texas Tech/ENEA project well funded by Gates. If the Rossi Effect were real and verifiable, the high-power output would make exploration of ash relatively easy, and thus there could be far more focus on NiH.


    Unfortunately, the Rossi results, if they exist at all, have likely been greatly exaggerated. And that work has never been accessible to confirmation; what is sometimes presented as confirmation is very weak, and the equivalent of Miles, who found the heat/helium correlation in 1991, confirmed many times over the years -- with true confirmation, not merely something "similar," -- does not yet exist for NiH.


    Overall, the funding of Kim shows dedication on the part of those who funded, to pure research. Kim is not likely to be generating anything like a product. This is science.

    Edited once, last by Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax ().

    • Official Post

    Dr. Kim has a storied history in both the commercial, and academic aspects of LENR...DGT/Cyclone Engines, and of course his theories respectively. Good to see IH investing in him. They (IH) are good at vetting their investments, so their commitment to him somewhat negates his association with DGT. I always wondered what happened to the Cyclone Engine collaboration?


    I used to follow Nevanlinna on Cobraf, but the translations were just too difficult to decipher/understand, so I gave up on the site. He does seem to find things no one else does. Always another angle not seen elsewhere. Too bad he does not bring his talents here.

  • I'm going to attempt to articulate a very complicated topic into simple terms. For the record, I'm not saying I understand all the precise metallurgical details.


    In my opinion, the fundamental basis of most LENR is the production of extremely high pressures in isolated voids, defects, or cavities inside of the nickel lattice. These high pressures, for some reason or another, produce LENR effects. Microcavities and other features on the surface may be important, but the hydrogen pressure does NOT increase dramatically there upon thermal shocking or "triggering." Instead, these surface cavities are areas of higher hydrogen loading. The hydrogen permeates through the nickel and fills INTERIOR voids in which desorption is NOT a rapid process. In these interior sites, triggering produces very high pressures because the hydrogen literally cannot migrate out of the lattice fast enough.


    In a nutshell, the fact hydrogen does not absorb into nickel as rapidly as palladium makes it the better choice. This is because if it is very easy for hydrogen to migrate through the lattice into interior defects, it will be easy for the hydrogen to migrate out. This means the pressures induced will usually be lower in palladium. Basically, if it takes you very little effort to load hydrogen into a metal lattice, you're going to get relatively little heat out upon triggering. Nickel is in a sweet spot for LENR: it absorbs/desorbs hydrogen (not talking about adsorption here) at a rate that isn't too slow or too fast. Also, due to the tensile strength of nickel (compared to lets say aluminum) the cavities can survive higher pressures at higher temperatures.


    My guess is that in most metals, LENR works by this same concept. In Rossi's first patents he mentions copper can be interchanged with nickel. My guess is that this same mechanism would work inside of copper cavities, but that getting the hydrogen into the copper is very difficult (making loading almost impractical all together) and the lower melting temperature of copper compared to nickel reduces the working temperatures capable of being achieved.


    Nickel is the superior LENR element, IMO.

  • /* Nickel is the superior LENR element, IMO. */


    At high temperatures maybe, but at low temperatures the Nickel-Palladium combinations provided most reliable effects (Craven, Patterson and others..), particularly because palladium absorbs hydrogen way faster and in greater extent.

  • Zephir,


    Faster absorption of hydrogen doesn't specifically mean a combination of elements is better for LENR. Actually, faster absorption could mean easier desorption which could reduce the maximum pressures capable of being produced inside internal voids, defects, and cavities. Palladium does absorb and desorb hydrogen *very* easily and at room temperature and to huge amounts. However, you don't need massive amounts of hydrogen absorption for LENR. You only need to reach a certain level of loading. If you can achieve that certain level very quickly, your final result may be poor because as soon as you attempt to thermal shock the loaded material all of the hydrogen may migrate out too rapidly. Basically, nickel is a great material because even though it takes MORE effort to get hydrogen loaded into the lattice, the hydrogen does not desorb extremely rapidly. This allows a higher level of nuclear reactions being produced.


    Again, this is a trade off. Some lower level of excess heat may be easily achieved with shorter loading times when using palladium. But the final excess heat may be less due to the rapid migration of hydrogen out of the critical cavities/dislocations/voids during thermal shocking.


    What I do find interesting (although I do not like the idea of using Pd at all due to its high cost) is peppering an oxide free, cleaned nickel particle with dozens or hundreds of much smaller palladium particles that can act as reverse spillover catalysts. The palladium adsorbs the hydrogen, breaks it down into atomic hydrogen, and then allows it to "spill over" onto the nickel substrate. Rossi utilized this in his earliest of systems. But again, I don't think the use of palladium is required to achieve sufficient loading in nickel. Primarily, what's required is PRACTICE and EXPERIENCE. Me356 learned how to load hydrogen into his nickel wire and powder with no problem. Other replicators can learn to do the same.

  • /* However, you don't need massive amounts of hydrogen absorption for LENR */


    Negative Actually the low saturation of hydrogen was the primary reason of premature failure of Fleischmann/Pons replications, as Hagelstein/McKubre demonstrated clearly. My recommendation: read more, think less, write even less - or you will increase noise/signal ratio here...



    /* I don't think the use of palladium is required to achieve sufficient loading in nickel.*/


    Of course not, Cellani/Piantelli started with plain nickel wires. But at low temperatures the speed of hydrogen saturation remains low, Cellani had to wait whole weeks for onset of LENR. Palladium shortens this time significantly as it dissolves hydrogen fast and well. This is well known effect as so-called phase-transfer catalysis from classical chemistry after all. I even suspect, that palladium is inert with respect to cold fusion: all this LENR runs at the foreign atoms in its lattice. This could explain failures of many replicators, once they did try pure palladium samples for the sake of "better reproducibility" - the reproducibility of their experiments decreased instead. With increasing temperature the ability of palladium to absorb hydrogen decreases faster, than at the case of nickel, so that for high temperature LENR the palladium would be probably useless.


    /*Rossi utilized this in his earliest of systems*/


    Do you have some info about it (link)? Rossi is notoriously secretive regarding the composition of his catalyst - I would be surprised, if he would publish it explicitly.


    /* Me356 learned how to load hydrogen into his nickel wire and powder with no problem */


    How he learned it? He reported success only after he implanted the hydrogen with corona discharge beneath the surface of nickel - and he remained silent from this moment. If I remember well, his experiments with LiAlH4 were as negative as the attempts of another Parkhomov replicators. This is also one of reasons, why I didn't recommend this mixture for you.

  • In palladium you are correct. But nickel high loading across the entire nickel powder particle is probably low. The high loading that needs to take place is near the surface of the nickel particle. It's very tough to get hydrogen to fully diffuse into bulk nickel even at the temperatures and pressures produced by Parkhomov and Songsheng. Most likely, overall their loading was low, but at the surface it was higher.


    And your statement about Me356 is totally false. He was able to produce a COP of around 1.5 to 3 with just nickel and hydrogen supplied from a tank -- no exotic coronal discharge whatsoever. I've read through every single post he's ever made on this forum, twice. He was able to produce high levels of excess heat with nickel and hydrogen, nickel and LiAlH4 (although he warned that this could be tricky without gaining the proper experience from repeated testing), and then later he began work on his more exotic glow discharge systems.


    I'd like to say that I admit I should try to be even more precise in my language. When we talk about high or low loading of hydrogen, we need to specify if we are talking about throughout the entire particle or in certain regions. So, for the record, my opinion is that with NiH LENR you need high loading near the surface of the nickel powder, but utilizing hundreds of bars of pressure to push hydrogen throughout the ENTIRE particle is probably not required. Songsheng utilized a maximum of around five for six bars of hydrogen pressure, and Parkhomov probably only achieved a similar level of pressure due to the leakiness of his sealing method. These levels of pressures and temperatures are not going to produce 90% to 100% loading throughout the entire nickel particle.


    EDIT: Look at his posts again. He had success with LiAlH4 and nickel! He specified that it can produce excess heat. However, it's just tricky because of a number of different issues such as waiting for pressures to drop. He suggested using a hydrogen generator or hydrogen tank instead. However, most replicators probably would rather work with LiAlH4 due to convenience.

    Edited 2 times, last by THEDEBATEISUSELESS ().

  • /* I've read through every single post he's ever made on this forum, twice */


    OK, you may be right with it, but I still don't see any clue for LENR from me356 posts about LENR with hydrogen. His experiments were rather qualitative and not convicing for me.



    /* He suggested using a hydrogen generator or hydrogen tank instead. However, most replicators probably would rather work with LiAlH4 due to convenience. */


    This is not just about the way, in which hydrogen is added to the mixture, but also about the presence of lithium, which is IMO the key difference here. We know, that deuterium can fuse with lithium without presence of any other catalyst even under low voltage discharge conditions. The nickel is not required for fusion at all, after then. The lithium was also mentioned in Piantelli patent, so that Rossi did use it too (being probably advised with Focardi in this matter). Maybe the nickel is actually inert for cold fusion in the same way, like the palladium - it just provides lattice effects for dissolved hydrogen and supporting layer for lithium. The first claims of Rossi, that the nickel converts itself into a copper during LENR were dismissed with Rossi himself as a bogus.

  • The problem is that he never revealed data for probably 98% of the tests he conducted. According to Bob Greenyer, he's the kind of person who will work all day, come home, and then test all evening. He is similar to Rossi in that he will perform many series of tests over a short period of time. The difference is, I think, Me356 has a slightly more "modern" understanding of data collection.


    I wish Me356 would reveal more data from his later tests.


    ---


    Nickel is not inert. Just nickel and hydrogen is sufficient to produce excess heat. Now, I'll totally admit that the the mechanism for this excess heat is not fully understood. Piantelli found all sorts of transmutation products on his nickel rods that had been, "active." Also, he saw particle emissions that he thinks were ejected protons. I think these emissions from whatever nuclear process is taking place with only nickel and hydrogen (either H-H fusion or Ni-H fusion or some other reaction) then interacts with the lithium to produce a secondary nuclear process that produces far more energy than the first. This is why Me356 claimed that the addition of lithium was a shortcut to even higher levels of excess heat. He claimed to be able to place a small bit of lithium into an active reactor (probably he could see it because of using a sapphire tube) centimeters away from the nickel and seeing it glow brilliantly. When the same lithium chunk was surrounded by powder, he claimed it looked like it was almost floating, suspended in the powder. He said even trace amounts of vaporized lithium could boost the output of his cells enormously.


    Basically, I think there is a reaction that only requires nickel and hydrogen which can then produce emissions that somehow stimulate further reactions with lithium that is supported on the surface of the nickel particle.

    Edited once, last by THEDEBATEISUSELESS ().

  • I used to follow Nevanlinna on Cobraf, but the translations were just too difficult to decipher/understand, so I gave up on the site.


    No wonder, as he does it on purpose, by using a somewhat archaic style and by nicknaming in a very personal way the protagonists of the Rossi saga (Rossi being "Quinlan" - from Orson Welles's "Touch of Evil"- more often than not). He is an interesting character indeed, beyond his investigating skills. And he does enjoy a good laugh when referenced by ECW folks who appreciate his findings but systematically fail to understand his comments.

  • Negative Actually the low saturation of hydrogen was the primary reason of premature failure of Fleischmann/Pons replications, as Hagelstein/McKubre demonstrated clearly. My recommendation: read more, think less, write even less - or you will increase noise/signal ratio here...


    @Zephir: The new picture is slightly different: According to Storms (actual ICCF20) there is no need for a Palladium high load to sustain the LENR reaction.


    But: An initial high load is needed to completely stress (transform) the lattice. That's where the early replicators failed.

  • Kim was roundly and thoroughly bamboozled by Defkalion and Hadjichristos. He has no business asking for grants in LENR as he clearly has no judgement in this field. And none should have been given. A sad waste of money. Actually, it's shocking. I wonder if the grantors know the history. If they do, they're morons. If they don't, they should have researched Kim better.


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2013…efkalion-nickel-hydrogen/

  • /* According to Storms (actual ICCF20) there is no need for a Palladium high load to sustain the LENR reaction. */


    Yes, this is what follows from above curve too. The high load kills the reaction often by uncontrolled runaway and overheating.

  • /* According to Storms (actual ICCF20) there is no need for a Palladium high load to sustain the LENR reaction. */


    Yes, this is what follows from above curve too. The high load kills the reaction often by uncontrolled runaway and overheating.


    Hmmm...from Shanahan, Thermochimica Acta, 441 (2006) 210–214


    "However, the field is still plagued by the assumption that bulk loading level (in reference to Pd) is a key parameter. So far, no one has reported that Pt can be made to form a bulk hydride, so clearly this is not a key parameter."


    and from Shanahan, Thermochimica Acta, 428 (2005) 207–212
    "Obviously, since Pt does not form hydrides, bulk loading is not the relevant number."


    This is "obvious" from the original report of Storms' work on Pt from ICCF8 (2000), which I reanalyzed in my 2002 publication, which I wrote in 2000. I guess it takes Ed (and others) awhile to catch on...

  • /* since Pt does not form hydrides, bulk loading is not the relevant number */


    I don't understand such a logics. Actually, just the lack of well defined hydrides opens the way for increasing yield of LENR with increasing partial pressure of hydrogen within lattice, as its concentration may rise for ever. Once the material forms defined hydride, then the excessive hydrogen will get consumed by formation of hydride and its saturation curve will stall...


    There is another, less apparent limit for saturation load: the metal lattice of palladium - which is otherwise able to dissolve lotta hydrogen - loses its strength and expands, once the palladium dissolves too much hydrogen. This expansion can be observed by naked eye and it may lead into destruction (tear off) of palladium membranes in hydrogen generators. The further increasing of hydrogen will therefore not lead into increase of partial pressure of hydrogen within lattice.


    BTW The (over)doping of superconductors with holes has similar effect: above certain concentration of holes the critical themperature doesn't increase - but it decreases again (and the pseudogap phase gets formed)... Just in this case it's the mutually repulsive electrons instead of protons, what expands the material lattice.



  • The very high hydrogen loading level teaches a lesson to the LENR experimenters in that it is the NUMBER of cavities in the lattice that is important and not an interaction between the palladium and the hydrogen.


    A nickel microparticle with a maximum cavity count is the best type of lattice to use in LENR experiments.


  • Shanahan became obsessed about that paper, which is about platinum, not palladium. I have written about this elsewhere here. As an isolated report, the Storms' work on platinum is largely irrelevant. Storms does claim that palladium is not necessary, that NAE can form in other materials, but that remains to be established clearly. There is anecdotal evidence, only.


    Shanahan was correct in that "bulk loading" would not be relevant to platinum results. However, he is here making it appear that this was more general, that he anticipated what is not being mentioned in his paper. He did not, unless his paper confused the platinum results with the palladium results. From his CCS theory, it is all artifact, and if that is correct, he would still, then, have the correlation with loading in palladium to explain.


    Storms does explain the correlation, or it can easily be supplied. Storms' theory has the effect take place in cracks at the surface of the palladium, and the particular kind of cracking that is effective is caused by stress to the material from loading. His theory would predict then that other methods of forming the required cracks or similar structures of the required dimensions (they are "nanocracks," very small) could produce heat without the high loading.


    His actual experimental result was that he set up a reaction with high loading, generating the heat, and he maintained the electrolyte temperature with a heater, then shutting off the electrolytic current. His measurements continued to show anomalous heat, with no decline, even though with the current shut off, loading declined. This continued for hours, I forget how long. This, if confirmed, would indicate that the actual reaction does not depend on loading, but on palladium structure and the availability of enough deuterium as fuel, and apparently much lower loading is enough.


    (Maintaining the environmental temperature of a reaction is not clearly "input power." We don't think of the room temperature as a power input. He was maintaining with thermostatic control an elevated temperature in the electrolyte, that's the difference. This is environmental temperature for the cathode. I have suggested similar approaches for working with nickel hydride. XP would up as a decline in input power necessary to maintain the constant elevated temperature, and this works as long as the XP is not great enough to take the temperature out of control range. In theory, one could then cool the cell.)

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