Unanswered Questions for Industrial Heat - 89 Million at time of agreement ??

    Quote from Alan Smith

    So I take it you now think Jed's hypothesis that Rossi's antics would cause all funding for LENR research to dry up is far from proven.


    Do not exaggerate. I never said that. I said that Rossi's problems will affect other researchers. I never said taht "all funding" will dry up. I was aware of the Texas Tech. initiative, for example.


    Quote from Alan Smith

    Rossi stirred up interest and dislodged some money from behind the sofa cushions. I wonder what Jed thinks about it now? He may say.


    I know for a fact that offers of research money has been withdrawn because of Rossi, and that some deep-pocket investors are now hesitating. I don't blame them; I would hesitate too. Rossi initially stirred up interest and increased the number of people attending ICCF conferences, but the number has now dropped again. All of the potential investors vanished.


    Overall, I think he has had a severely negative impact.

    • Official Post

    Thanks Jed. Good to know how things stand. However, I think that ICCF had a low turnout this year because (in these straightened time) of the cost. I went to Padua because it was easy and cheap. I know it all depends where you start from, but for anyone in Europe ior the USA the dual-center long haul flights to China and Japan alone were very expensive, and maybe because of your diligent librarianship people this year thought 'we'll save money, stay home, and read it on LENR-CANR for free!'


    ETA - having already been to Japan twice this year, I'm not sure my arse could stand another 12 hours on a 777, even in premium economy.

    The world is now awash in capital looking for a home. That is why we have bubbles, such as the dot-com and housing bubbles. There are not enough investment opportunities. There is so much money sloshing around, some banks in Germany have negative interest rates. You deposit 100,000 euros and they charge you 400 euros per year just to keep the money. They pay you nothing. Under these circumstances, if Rossi's claims were true, and they were demonstrated to the satisfaction of most scientists and engineers, I.H. could secure billions of dollars practically overnight, with favorable terms (low interest or a small fraction of their stock). They would pull in money from Mars and the Moon. They would pull in enough to distort the tides.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    However, I think that ICCF had a low turnout this year because (in these straightened time) of the cost.


    To the serious investors the airfare is a minor expense. They have millions of dollars burning a hole in their pockets. They have been sniffing around cold fusion for a long time, but most of them do not have the knowledge or the guts to commit. I know about such people because I have talked to them at ICCF conferences, and they ask me for information from time to time. I do not know much about them.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:


    So I take it you now think Jed's hypothesis that Rossi's antics would cause all funding for LENR research to dry up is far from proven. Rossi stirred up interest and dislodged some money from behind the sofa cushions. I wonder what Jed thinks about it now? He may say.


    Alan, you don't understand what people write, you form an idea in your head that is your interpretation, then you repeat this as if it were fact.


    I never thought that Rossi caused "all funding to dry up." I stated that his claims damaged funding, but even worse, dampened enthusiasm for research into other approaches, and also led many newcomers into a wild-goose chase for irreproducible results. With the file-drawer effect from such massive efforts, it's hard to say how to interpret the NiH findings we have, but NiH existed as known reports before Rossi, and investigating NiH was always a very legitimate possibility. But looking at reports of kilowatts, what do you make of a few watts? Success? In the old context, yes, actually quite good, assuming the calorimetry is sound and results well above noise. In the new one, well, better luck next time!


    Rossi did stir up interest, but the only big money that went to it connected with Rossi was through Industrial Heat, directly with Rossi. The point I have made is that Industrial Heat needed to find out, because investing serious money in other approaches was foolish if Rossi was about to blow all that out of the water. So they took the risk of losing their entire investment in him, up to about $20 million. This was, among other things, a hedge, and they still have the hedge, just in case Rossi comes up with a Wabbit.


    Talk about "proven" shows a blind approach. This was testimony and personal assessment, from me, based on my following discussions on the private CMNS list for years. Jed also follows that list and has followed the field for a very long time. If you want to demean the testimony of those with experience, carry on, but you are only fooling yourself and not anyone else who counts.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:


    And so do you, except at much greater length and with far less wit.


    Well, as to length, I actually quote what I'm responding to and provide explanations and examples and sources. It definitely takes more words. I had a specific reference in mind when I wrote what you quoted. As you presented it, out of context, it is pure personal conflict. And phooey on you, too!


    As to wit, who needs wit? I prefer fact, as distinct from possibly clever sound bites, or stupid ones.


    When brevity is called for, I create it, such as with my Current Science paper, and I write polemic as needed for decision-making. This is a discussion forum, so ... I discuss, as well as reporting what I find in research. And you?

    Quote from Malcolm Lear

    I'd certainly question that AR was in that warehouse for a year. I believe he claims that he did the night shift?? Odd that the timings of his postings on the JONP do not support that.


    Of course he wasn't. It is a figure of speech. What did he do when he was there? How about post on JONP?


    If he was there. Rossi is not a reliable source for much of anything. My reference was to what he claimed, and behind this was an assumption, for the purpose of discussion, that the reactor actually works.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    @Abd - I looked up the definition of 'discussion' in my OED. It mentioned the exchange of ideas and opinions etc, but I couldn't find where it said ' In any discussion it is a given that Abd is always right and everybody else is wrong'. That's a serious failing, I shall write to the compilers at once.


    Get right on that! Funny, they get troll right:


    Quote

    Noun. A person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post:



    Verb: Make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.


    And none of it had to do with the actual topic here. But the posts were brief!

    Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    I never thought that Rossi caused "all funding to dry up." I stated that his claims damaged funding, but even worse, dampened enthusiasm for research into other approaches, and also led many newcomers into a wild-goose chase for irreproducible results.


    The only real damage I see, stems from the fact, that highly business (profit) oriented Investment fonds like Cherokee, with no knowledge of the LENR field are attracted, - with the help of some home taught supporters -, which claim to have knowledge...
    Result: The Rossi mess...


    If the first thing, IH asks for giving money, is a non disclosure letter, then they will never get their money back. LENR is still in a basic research phase and hitting the grail would be mere luck.
    Thus the result of IH money is killing communication and a slow down of the world wide research!


    Only open communication can bring us leap frog step ahead.

Subscribe to our newsletter

It's sent once a month, you can unsubscribe at anytime!

View archive of previous newsletters

* indicates required

Your email address will be used to send you email newsletters only. See our Privacy Policy for more information.

Our Partners

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
Want to Advertise or Sponsor LENR Forum?
CLICK HERE to contact us.