ISCMNS: 12th International Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen Loaded Metals 2017 - near Asti, Italy - 5-9 June 2017

Quote from Longview

Is it safe to dismiss "magnetic" in view of the possibility of such rapid motion of an electrostatic charge pair (net neutral but with nucleus in between) or net negative charge 1-, this is, perhaps as a triplet-- H minus itself in some quasi inner orbital?

On principle, I think it's rarely safe to dismiss any proposal out of hand, and so I always leave a little wiggle room for the possibility that my assumptions are bad. In this case I would be quite surprised to learn that there is an exotic electron-proton species that is burrowed in the electron cloud of an iron atom against the strong mutual Coulomb repulsion felt between the proton and the nucleus, and via magnetic attraction no less. And that this system forms a bound state stable enough for an iron atom to masquerade as cobalt. For that to happen the electrons in the H- ion must remain bound to the proton, against the dissociative agency of the electron cloud, which normally strips electrons from hydrogen atoms when, for example, they electrochemically migrate into a metal lattice. And note that even with the two electrons in the H- ion, only a small solid angle is subtended by the bound electrons to screen the positive 1e charge of the proton.

I guess there are stranger things that have happened. But I would not put any money on this particular bet. I would seek out another explanation.

Quote from Alan Smith

Emilia, Contessa di Castiliglione

Is she the femme fatale and mistress of Napoleon III who has been dead for 118 years? She's looking good for someone that age!

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This was an excellent conference, both in the quality of presentation and also the informal discussions

I see, old chaps just need the feeling, they still matter in some community..:-) I can understand it - but I don't need such a feeling for my work personally. Try to imagine, how the world would look like, if every profession (lawyers, programmers, street cleaners) would organize such a conferences. Why these people don't need any conferences for their effective work and the scientists just do? Because they're not payed for their own money - that's the whole secret of conferences.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Why these people don't need any conferences for their effective work and the scientists just do? Because they're not payed for their own money - that's the whole secret of conference

Zephir_AWT : This is only half (or even less) the truth: In fact half of the people were private/independent researchers and most of the rest could easily find a more enjoyable way to dispense their money.

May be you attended once different types of conferences...

For me the only advantage of conferences are its proceedings, i.e. the concentrated source of LENR research articles, which you can download and study as a single file. Most of people at the conferences have nothing to say anyway: with respect to work of Alan or Bob Greenyer - did they found something interesting if not substantial for cold fusion during their life? They may play role of social catalyst in some areas, but the original source of LENR information and the driving force of progress are the reports of succesfull experiments - nothing else. After all, like in all other areas of scientific research.

Quote from Eric Walker

And note that even with the two electrons in the H- ion, only a small solid angle is subtended by the bound electrons to screen the positive 1e charge of the proton.

Whither goest orbitals? Physical explanations of chemistry phenomena are often challenging. Physical explanations at the level of catalytic function even more so. I appreciate that you, Eric Walker, are bringing your expertise to these issues. As many here and elsewhere have suggested, good testable hypotheses that correlate either to conventions in say physical chemistry, or to quantum mechanical and/or condensed matter theories are needed.....

Of course that may only be true for "CF", if there are demonstrable and perhaps energetically useful nuclear events initiated and/or catalyzed by say 100 eV (or far less) inputs.

With respect to Jacques Dufour's presentation, which I have not yet read or viewed: NMR, shows us that above an effective curie temperature, a ferromagnetic nucleus (for example, a piece of steel at 1000 C, or iron in hemoglobin of dried RBCs, or an iron chelate in solution) can easily be oriented in a strong magnetic field. Further an electron or proton can easily be guided by a rather modest electrostatic field, with quite different dynamics for each depending on oscillations in field strength. Outer orbitals can easily be disrupted by external electrostatic fields, certainly so in many metals, especially the alkali metals (periodic column 1A, H, Li, Na, K..) and alkaline "earths" (Be, Mg, Ca...). I suspect that inner orbitals can also readily be "bent" and "stretched".... but more importantly can be pulled into a fixed relative position vis a vis any magnetic nuclear axis. Particularly for some transition metals, where chemistry has been very substantially altered by magnetic and electrostatic interactions, IIRC.

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Quote from Longview

I appreciate that you, Eric Walker, are bringing your expertise to these issues.

I have no expertise to bring to these issues. I just like to argue.

Quote from Longview

NMR, shows us that above a curie temperature, a ferromagnetic nucleus can easily be oriented in a strong magnetic field.

NMR also highlights the difficulty. The magnetic field involved in reorienting an iron atom is surely many orders of magnitude smaller than a magnetic field required to keep a proton in close enough proximity to a nucleus with 26 protons to make it seem like cobalt. (Note that the magnetic moment of a proton is a small thing.) It is always important to get a sense of the orders of magnitude involved. If they're close, then who knows. If they're very different, one should be skeptical.

The mutual orientation of atom orbitals and atom nuclei could also explain the prominent sensitivity of many LENRs to external magnetic field - only in mutualy collinear arrangement/orientation of orbitals is what allows effective shielding of paired electrons. We already discussed it in thread about Valeé generator.

Sorry if my expression was unclear: While such nuclei certainly have considerable magnetic susceptibility---- Eric's point appears correctly to be that a proton immersed in a sea of electrons has no electrostatic susceptibility, it is certainly Faraday screened in any conductor.

But a finer point may have been missed:

Quote from Eric Walker

(Note that the magnetic moment of a proton is a small thing.)

Longview elaborates this: the magnetic moment of an extra nuclear protonic orbital is surely not a small thing. I advise those following this issue to read my initial post, and the full text following the introductory sentence below:

Quote from Longview

I have not yet been able to access the half century old works on "protonic orbitals" by P.L. Goodfriend. Perhaps there is something in that work that might shed some light on this work reported by Jacques Dufour.

If someone can bring up P.L. Goodfriend's "protonic orbital" full text articles, it might shed more light on Dufour's ideas. I recall the citation(s) were directing to a Bunsen chemical journal out of Europe in perhaps the late 1940s and 50s--. [My local research library appears to be missing the cited volume(s)].

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Try to imagine, how the world would look like, if every profession (lawyers, programmers, street cleaners) would organize such a conferences.

In the U.S. they all do. There are conferences for every profession, and every political party, cause, religion and hobby. Alexis de Tocqueville noted this. Programmers have live conferences constantly, even though no other profession is on line so intensively. The Street Cleaner's Association holds regular meetings. See:

http://www.powersweeping.org/

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Most of people at the conferences have nothing to say anyway: with respect to work of Alan or Bob Greenyer - did they found something interesting if not substantial for cold fusion during their life?

Zephir_AWT : Klimow (with Dubinko) did a through replication (COP 2-12) of Mills work using a different setup. Talking face to face to people that do cutting edge research is way more interesting than listening to forum noise.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

The mutual orientation of atom orbitals and atom nuclei could also explain the prominent sensitivity of many LENRs to external magnetic field - only in mutualy collinear arrangement/orientation of orbitals is what allows effective shielding of paired electrons.

The synchronization of the spin axes is the key to the LENR effect. Without this no LENR happens! It' easy to proove in the Lipinski case.

Quote from Longview

Longview elaborates this: the magnetic moment of an extra nuclear protonic orbital is surely not a small thing.

It only looks like a protonic orbital. But it is a H*, a proton plus an electron in a shrunken orbit bound to 56Fe, because the chemistry still shows Iron, with some disturbance in the orbits and not 57Co.

To be precise, Camillo Benso di Cavour friend - it seems that the true history of Virginia Oldoini has not crossed Italian border ...

The synchronization of the spin axes is the key to the LENR effect.
Without this no LENR happens! It' easy to proove in the Lipinski case.

Rotation and gives a magnetic and gravitational field!

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It' easy to proove in the Lipinski case

How?

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Klimow (with Dubinko) did a through replication (COP 2-12) of Mills work using a different setup

Where (link)?

All the familiar faces. . . Wherein A is ICCF-21