Alan - are you saying that in your experience GCs are NOT sensitive to RFI?
No. But, I am not so sure as you that Celani was using a Geiger.
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@ JedRothwell,
I thought the Levi report was credible, and I still do think so. As a stand alone report it is impressive, but the follow-up work ruined its credibility.
When I wrote in my previous comment "from the beginning" I was referring to the real one, that is to the demo held in Bologna in January 14, 2011. The long list of your comments in support of the credibility of the Ecat's testers and of the reliability of their results started the day after, on January 15, 2011.
The stand alone report (1) issued by Levi on the behalf of his Alma Mater on that occasion is really impressive for the quantities of errors and incongruities contained in it. The credibility of its author was already ruined after this first report by him.
I'm still wondering how it was possible that you were not aware of all such flaws, considering that you did follow very closely all the activities of gathering and systematization of the experimental data contained in this very FIRST report.
QuoteI doubt that Krivit has any inside knowledge of what potential investors heard from any LENR researchers, or whether they were influenced. I do not think investors would discuss this with Krivit.
In his post, Krivit wrote:
Quotehttp://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…Investigation-Index.shtml
That is precisely the analysis of potential investor Brian Scanlan, who met Rossi and Darden at a meeting arranged by Michael Melich and Marianne Macy. (PDF) The husband-and-wife team of Melich and Macy was the first Rossi promoter in the LENR community. They strongly encouraged members of the LENR community to support Rossi and the E-Cat idea; Melich compared Rossi to inventor Nikola Tesla. Scanlan eventually saw through the smoke.
In the above cited PDF, Brian Scanlan wrote:
Quotehttp://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…/20160411ScanlanBrian.pdf
I am not sure how many of us in this group have met either Rossi, or IH's Tom Darden. I've met both and came away with very distinct impressions.
In June 2011 I met Rossi in Miami along with his partners from Leonardo. Mike Melich and Maryanne Macy were also present. Prior to the meeting I had constructed a consortium committed to funding $15mil provided we could establish mutually agreed upon test conditions. …
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Since GCs are sensitive to RFI, and intermittent RFI can be generated from many things, GC blips are ort of par for the course.
So say Rossi was in the change room at Saks 5th Avenue, trying out a new pair of pants, and Celani was outside the door with a Geiger counter. Would he be as likely to register a cascade of blips, as he did when outside Rossi's lab door? Just seems too coincidental to me.
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I do not think the tests cost them much. Or anything? Maybe Rossi paid for them.
The real cost to IH in allowing the 1 year test to proceed was that it weakened their position considerably when the lawsuit was initiated against them. With hindsight it seems the cost of that combination of curiosity and resignation was the risk of being liable for 89 million (x 3) or whatever came out of the resulting bankruptcy.
I was only mildly surprised when Rossi filed the lawsuit. I rolled my eyes and thought that it was in character and that it made a lot of sense out of the strange tidbits of cryptic non-information being published on JONP over the preceding year.
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I doubt that Krivit has any inside knowledge of what potential investors heard from any LENR researchers, or whether they were influenced. I do not think investors would discuss this with Krivit. None of them has discussed it with me. Dewey has stated here that they were influenced by the Swedes. The Swedes did not "promote" the e-cat. They tested it, and reported their results. Their first test was impressive, but the second one (Lugano) was a fiasco. I have no idea when I.H. invested but if it was after the second report, that was a mistake.
Jed,
Yes, I know how hard it is to keep it all straight. Especially so when we probably only see the tip of the iceberg, as to all that went on. Fortunately, I do have an advanced degree in Rossiology, and I can clear this one thing up:
The IH Validation Test (VT) at Ferrara took place at the end of April 2013. IH was already suspicious, as Rossi had by then thrown a temper tantrum when IH mentioned bringing along some experts, Additionally, Rossi had previously told IH that he had to downgrade the 1MW to a lesser power (forget how much), because the Italian government required a permit for that much, and he wanted to avoid that complicated process. Note: Rossi changed that story in his deposition to say he down rated the 1MW for the VT, so as not to bother the neighbors with the noise. Question for Rossi fans: does the 1MW make noise?
The day of the VT, Rossi presented IH with the "Ferrara Report" (Levi/Swedes first test of the Hotcat). IH was impressed, and mollified as Dewey explained, and they went on to waste a lot of money. The later "Lugano Report" BTW, came also at another critical IH/Rossi juncture, when IH had basically given up on Rossi. Because of Lugano though, IH eventually agreed to Doral.
Had it not been for Levi/Swedes, it is unlikely the story would have played out the way it did. IMO, IH would have opted out early on, and Rossi would have been left trying to explain why they abandoned him.
Dewey, quid pro quo...now it's your turn.
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In the above cited PDF, Brian Scanlan wrote:
I spoke with Scanlan on the day he met with Rossi. I agreed with him.
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I was only mildly surprised when Rossi filed the lawsuit. I rolled my eyes and thought that it was in character and that it made a lot of sense out of the strange tidbits of cryptic non-information being published on JONP over the preceding year.
You are a better Rossi-ologist then I am. I did not see it coming. I wasn't reading the JONP -- that's my excuse!
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Yes, I know how hard it is to keep it all straight. Especially so when we probably only see the tip of the iceberg, as to all that went on. Fortunately, I do have an advanced degree in Rossiology, and I can clear this one thing up:
The IH Validation Test (VT) at Ferrara took place at the end of April 2013. IH was already suspicious, as Rossi had by then thrown a temper tantrum when IH mentioned bringing along some experts . . .Hey, I thought I made up that word Rossiology. No fair.
This history gives me a headache. I guess you put together this timeline from the lawsuit depositions. I did not have the heart to read the ones relating to business and contracts, or the timeline. I do not understand the legalese in the legal arguments. I can't keep straight which side the plaintiff is on. So, anyway, I read the ones about the engineering by Murray and others, and I read Rossi's comments about the tests, but that's about it.
I also read the opening statements which spooked me. I thought: "there are enough stupid people in the world that Rossi might get away with this." I am glad the trial was cancelled. Settled. Whatever they call it. Rossi would never have paid up even if he had lost.
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I also read the opening statements which spooked me. I thought: "there are enough stupid people in the world that Rossi might get away with this."
Yes "there are enough" of them (stupid people), to persuade IH to settle before court. I think IH made a wise, practical decision.
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Rose - the Swedes said it worked - we took their word for it.
Good. And you were apparently pleased with that all they way through Woodford investments and demoing the Doral plant to whomever wanted with a nice sales pitch... It somehow changed the second you started to realize you would need to pay up - and you were sued for it. (when there was to much word out and you felt the need to blame someone else...) Also it is kind of interesting that the the swedes are still in on Rossi as of the Stockholm demo? To me it does not compute entirely and your comment above sounds a bit like damage control. Putting the blame on someone else, and trashing them to put yourself and IH in a better light after making a terrible mess out of your sorry selves.
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People whose purpose here is to start a fight won't last long.
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People whose purpose here is to start a fight won't last long.
Does my critique of this "blame the swedes" narrative being pushed, and voicing my opinion about it, equal to "picking a fight" according to forum policy?
I mean, to me, there are logical deductions to made by the fact that the swedes are still in the game, together with the frequent Rossi accusations about the current situation... It indicates (although not voiced loudly) serious accusations in my pov ....
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Putting the blame on someone else, and trashing them to put yourself and IH in a better light after making a terrible mess out of your sorry selves.
As someone new and relatively unknown, sticking to the facts and avoiding gratuitous provocation will help you to establish your benign intentions and increase your chances of remaining here.
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Yeah Tony.
This forum is focusing on the wrongdoings of Rossi! Please stick to this dictum.
Over at ECW there is a space for you if you don't support this narrative.
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Yeah Tony.
This forum is focusing on the wrongdoings of Rossi! Please stick to this dictum.
Over at ECW there is a space for you if you don't support this narrative.
That is right. Factless propaganda and contrafactual speculation that IH are the evil stepmother will fit right in to the narrative there: with the very mild admonitions when the are logical discontinuities drowned by a chorus of approval.
Whereas here your statements get challenged if not consistent with Court documents released over the last 24 months (at the very least, some have much longer memories).
Try constructing a pro-Rossi narrative out of the external facts? It is now pretty difficult - even Shane has come over to the dark side, that should tell you something.
Your best bet is to adopt Alan's approach. Ignore the external evidence and hold fast to a contrary view hinting that it relates to private information others do not posses. That remains a tenable, if infuriating to others, stance.
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Is nice of you to offer so good advice THH...
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Trolly shows up with a page right out of the Planet Rossi playbook.
If your kind had only held your boy to one tenth of the same standard then millions of additional CF research dollars would have ended up in the hands
of genuine and sincere researchers rather than invested in 2nd rate Florida real estate. The wealthy career specialist set CF research back one decade.
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Trolly shows up with a page right out of the Planet Rossi playbook.
If your kind had only held your boy to one tenth of the same standard then millions of additional CF research dollars would have ended up in the hands
of genuine and sincere researchers rather than invested in 2nd rate Florida real estate. The wealthy career specialist set CF research back one decade.
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If your kind had only held your boy to one tenth of the same standard then millions of additional CF research dollars would have ended up in the hands
of genuine and sincere researchers rather than invested in 2nd rate Florida real estate. The wealthy career specialist set CF research back one decade.
And if your kind would have made what they are paid for (due dilligence, proper testing, risk management) I dont want to start thinking about what would have happened then. And in contrast to me (who is not actively involved in the whole IH vs. Rossi saga) you really could have made the difference Dewey! Think about it
The world would be such a good place with all the ifs and could haves...
Karma is a bitch apparently.
And what do u mean by "set the CF research back one decade". Is that your actual timeframe for something marketable?! One decade?!?! Ouch!!!!
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And if your kind would have made what they are paid for (due dilligence, proper testing, risk management) I dont want to start thinking about what would have happened then. And in contrast to me (who is not actively involved in the whole IH vs. Rossi saga) you really could have made the difference Dewey! Think about it
The world would be such a good place with all the ifs and could haves...
Karma is a bitch apparently.
And what do u mean by "set the CF research back one decade". Is that your actual timeframe for something marketable?! One decade?!?! Ouch!!!!
TTM
While I'm all for due diligence, proper testing, it is a bit rich anyone supporting Rossi, as it seems you do, calling for this!
(1) Rossi has never in his life allowed proper testing to be done. All tests were with Rossi operating the Rossi-designed test setup until IH paid up. In fact they remained that, look at the Rossi redesign of the long-term test schematic, mysterious extra pumps, valves, etc. Look at the Lugano test which it turns out had Rossi or his henchperson there all the time, with flying visits from the Swedes. (That was a surprise to me!).
(2) IH did due diligence. They were well aware that Rossi was Rossi. They were willing to pay for his stuff on the say so of the Swedes, not realising how wrong they are now known to have been. They got it wrong. (Which you will note Dewey handsomely admits).
Ironically, you I'm sure would have been the first person to applaud the brave (but foolish) decision that IH made at that time. Even I, as a skeptic, don't blame IH for this. It was a high risk gamble I would not personally have made. Darden had the balls to put his own money up for this. Had Rossi's stuff worked, it would have been worth it.
Rossi was given every possible advantage, in spite of his impossible behaviour. So why are you so bitter now?
