Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

I believe "Dewey, Cheetham & Howe" originated in the radio show "Car Talk." They have a long list of terrible puns like that:

Customer Service Specialist: Begonia Payne-Diaz (Begone! You pain in the ass.)

Ornithology Intern: Luke A. Boyd (Look -- A Bird)
401K Statement Analysts: Douse and Burnham (Dowse and burn them)

Accounts Payable Clerk, Moscow Office: Dasha Chekhov (Dash a Check Off)

Complaint Line Operator: Xavier Breath (Save your breath)
Complaint Line Operator II: Levon Hold (Leave on hold)
Computer Hardware Specialist: C. Colin Backslash (C:\)

https://www.cartalk.com/content/staff-credits

Quote from bang99

Huey, Dewey and Louie ...

Rends, Zorud and Barty might remember them, EHAPA, Berlin, Disney, Lustiges Taschenbuch. Maybe also Wyttenbach.

But yes, "Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe" is not common in non-english countries, I suspect.

Three stooges?! Larry, Moe und Curly? What's up, doc.

Okay. That's enough ...

bang,

Thus the Howard, Fine & Howard reference

Quote from Shane D.

April 1st...hmmm.

http://time.com/4274501/heres-…-apples-third-co-founder/

Quote from Roseland67

Sam,

“Because you study Andrea Rossi the man”?

How do you study?

Do you know Andrea Rossi personally?

Do you know anyone that does?

We’re you present at any of his demos?

Do you know personally anyone who was?

We’re you privy to his testing procedures?

Do you know personally anyone who was?

Have you seen his Ecat operating?

Do you know personally anyone that has?

Have you ever directly asked him questions?

Do you know personally anyone that has?

I could go on with this line of questioning,

But you get the idea.

My guess is that you would have to answer “NO” to all of the above questions,

Yet somehow you know, based on nothing other than “Rossi Says”, that the Ecat provides Energy Out > Energy In?

My god man, have you ever thought how incredibly gullible this sounds?

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I don’t need to see the Ecat or test and be at demo to ask questions or know someone personally.I can interpret what Rossi says

and does and draw my own conclusions.

Adrian,

Everyone else seems to take the point (noted by Grafiker when he quoted Rossi here).

Quote

THH: Adrian, are you saying Rossi is lying about this?

Quote

AA: No. What makes you think that?

I think that because:

AA: 5. Rossi's business plan is to sell heat to customers. He will provide the reactor and control them. The customer simply pays for the heat supplied.

which contradicts:

RossiSays: for example, we are going to supply a system for a total power of 40 MW to a Customer and the Customer will pay 40 MWh/h, even if he will not use in part or in total this amount of energy. Obviously the Client will not pay the amount due for the quantity of energy we will not supply for malfunctions deriving from our responsibility ( errors of us, lack of our maintenance, breakages due to our fault et similia ). Therefore if, for example, we will have a blackout of 10 hours due to our errors, the Customer will not pay 400 MWh, that will be deducted from the bill at the end of the month.

and RossiBlogSays:

1. Italo Romano August 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM

   Dear Dr. Rossi, the lump sum payment may not be convenient for a customer.

   If, for example, the power used varies between 40 MW and 10 MW over time, he will still pay as if he were constantly receiving 40 MW. Even with the 30% discount on the cost of energy, he will pay a lot more.

   It would be better, I think, to measure the real energy supplied.

   Kind Regards,

   Italo R.

2. Andrea Rossi August 8, 2018 at 6:02 PM

   Italo Romano:

   We adopt the lump sum. Obviously our Clients must order an amount of heat they are sure to consume.

   Warm Regards,

   A.R.

Thus the RossiSays, understood by others here and I think clear, is that if the contract is for 40MW the customer will pay a fixed amount per day (the 40MW cost) regardless of how much they actually use. The only exception would be a power outage for which Rossi was responsible, which the customer would not pay for.

Just to nail this, Grafiker suggests that this setup would allow Rossi to run a supply plant in which the output power was never measured by the customer. I agree with Shane, Rossi probably has some plan here and it will be fun to see what it is. It is very possible Rossi will actually run a plant with an e-cat, delivering output power in the historically documented (COP=1) way, and spin this as a working industrial application which proves e-cats work. Rossi would in this case probably lose money - though given his "You pay for 40MW all the time" strategy he might lose a bit less than you would expect. However a short-term loss of money, for Rossi, could be seen as a great investment if it allowed him to net future customers for a $100M sting. Or, since Rossi clearly craves adulation and has at least $10.5M already from IH, perhaps even given legal fees he is solvent, Rossi could be doing this just to preserve his battered sense of self-esteem and fan-base.

Which customer would ever agree to that charade?

And after the Doral incident this time Rossi can't make another switcheroo as it embarrased him quite a lot the last time.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

Yes Jed, it is also the legal definition, as in:"Anything you say may be taken down and used as evidence against you." It doesn't matter if it is true or false, it is still evidence. Unless you are the Red Queen.

Stick to the day job AA. You don't understand the law or what that warning means. A man being arrested states that he saw shape changing lizards kill Josef Stalin, please explain how, and of what, that is evidence.

Also, is the "state" in which they are allegedly seeking permits a state in the United States (please identify which state if so) or is it one of those extra-dimensional states (I understand that the permitting process is much easier in some of those, especially the state of having no fucking clue).

Quote from sam12

Because I am good at studying Rossi the man.The April 1 2019 countdown is on for me for Rossi to prove that the Ecat has been succesful.

To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me

Isaac Newton

I knew Isaac Newton and sir, you are no Isaac Newton (apologies to Lloyd Bentsen).

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

The updated position is that Andrea Rossi says he has:

1. The Qx, now rated at 1 kW, that has been tested for a year and developed into an industrial rector\. A video of it supplying heat to a real customer and an example of the non working reactor will be shown early in 2019.

2. The SK10, which is the same size as the QX but with a higher output thanks to a novel heat exchanger. It is running under test but not yet ready for commercialization.

3. The SK, that is ten times larger and rated at 100 kW. It too is running under test and has been used to power a gas turbine. It is still very much a prototype and not yet ready for commercialization.

4. He is building a highly automated factory to produce the QS and the SKs if they pan out, including the electronics for the controllers.

5. Rossi's business plan is to sell heat to customers. He will provide the reactor and control them. The customer simply pays for the heat supplied.

He says he has several companies interested, most recently a major corporation interested in a 40 MW plant. The customers has to get approval just for the plant's connection the reactor. Rossi has hired an engineer to get certification for this plants.

Following the publication of the original list the babble has been about the meaning in English of "evidence." There is a difference between what Rossi says, as he knows all the details, and the babblers who have no knowledge at all of what's happening, and simply make things up.

As I said, of course Rossi's claims have to be verified before they can be accepted. But the babblers have zero evidence that they are not true

7 or 20 writes: " What Rossi has to say is only of interest to you and equally delusional people. For the rest of us, it is utterly meaningless"

As he is claiming to speak for the babblers, one wonders why they comment on a thread about Rossi's blog.

The underlying problem is that the babblers are certain the the Doral plant didn't work. Despite Jed's voluminous one sided comments I don't consider that proven. It serves no useful purpose to go on about it and I am far more interested in how Rossi's claims above work out. This requires more evidence and it is useless to debate it until then..

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AA, I have a couple of very serious questions which you, by your recitation of your experience in engineering the construction of factories, should be able to easily answer.

I am assuming by your reference to "state" that the planned site is in the US. Given that, and given that Rossi's technology, whatever it is, is new, not certified by any underwriting agency and there is no public record of Rossi ever applying to a regulatory agency anywhere in the US for any approvals:

1. Will such a new, unproven and uncertified system require an EIR?

2. Will it require approvals by state and federal agencies, or just state or just federal? Has Rossi even identified the agencies that will need to review and approve? If so, do you know which ones? If not, how can he reasonably expect to be operating before 2020 or 2021?

3. If it requires an EIR, that will require a public posting and hearing on any EIR. Has Rossi hired appropriate consultants and lawyers experienced in this process?

4. Based on your experience, assuming that there are no objections or litigation filed in connection with the EIR, how long do you estimate the EIR process will take? I feel this is especially relevant and important in that the EIR process is generally a lengthy one even if involving proven technology -- is it realistic that Rossi will be up and running in less than a year? If you believe so, please explain why.

5. Has Rossi prepared for the inevitable litigation that will arise once he publicly announces the site where this will be located? I am not saying that the litigation will be meritorious, merely that it inevitably comes and is very expensive and time consuming. Also, in such a litigation, Rossi I am sure will be deposed and asked to explain both his process and what safety and environmental measures he has taken. The process may be disclosed under seal and not publicly, but any environmental and safety measures are a matter of public concern and will be publicly open.

I am sure that there are many additional real world hurdles that have to be overcome prior to Rossi generating any heat and I am confident that, based on your vast experience, you can think of many yourself. I am also confident that we would all like to hear your expert opinion on how all of these issues are going to be handled.

Quote from Gruber

Which customer would ever agree to that charade?

And after the Doral incident this time Rossi can't make another switcheroo as it embarrased him quite a lot the last time.

Well, I'm not saying anyone will, or that Rossi will ever have a real customer - he has proven very able to generate fake ones!

But equally Rossi has an unparalleled ability to find and encourage foolish people, so who knows?

Quote from THHuxleynew

AA: As I said, of course Rossi's claims have to be verified before they can be accepted. But the babblers have zero evidence that they are not true

I don't think Rossi is vindictive but there would be justification for legal proceedings against the owner of this blog for publishing so many libelous comments.

Fair comment, what we are doing here, is not libellous. Where we argue that Rossi's statements are unreliable we give specific reasons why, which any reasonable person would agree.

On the other hand your assuming that Tom Darden's deposition contains direct lies possibly is libellous. You have given no reason to suppose Darden inclined to perjury.

THH

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AA: As I said, of course Rossi's claims have to be verified before they can be accepted. But the babblers have zero evidence that they are not true

I don't think Rossi is vindictive but there would be justification for legal proceedings against the owner of this blog for publishing so many libelous comments.

Truth is an absolute defense. And I don't think that I have actually seen any libelous comments about Rossi -- nasty, mean, derogatory, all yes, but that does not make them libelous. Also, the Communications Decency Act may have something to say about the blog owner's liability, but I wouldn't worry if I were them.

WW, don't expect Adrian to address your questions. The regulatory hurdles facing Rossi's installations and factories are just one of the many things that contribute to the utter absurdity of believing anything the man says. Building and equipping factories and staffing them without any trace of a paper trail is an impressive feat. But delusional beliefs are the mainstay of Rossi loyalists. There is no limit to the absurdities they adopt without flinching.

Quote from woodworker

I knew Isaac Newton and sir, you are no Isaac Newton (apologies to Lloyd Bentsen).

Adrian, out of curiosity, what past triumphs of Rossi do you consider “ancient stuff”? Anything before July, perhaps?

@Adrian Ashfield

Naturally, your own reference doesn't say what it you claim it does. Here is the full Petroldragon cite from Wikipedia (EN):

Quote

In 1974, Rossi registered a patent for an incineration system. In 1978, he wrote The Incineration of Waste and River Purification, published in Milan by Tecniche Nuove. He then founded Petroldragon, a company that was paid to process toxic waste, claiming to use Rossi's process to convert the waste into usable petroleum products.

In 1989 Italian customs seized several Petroldragon waste deposit sites and assets. Investigations showed that petroleum presumably produced by the company was never been placed on the market, and that mixtures of toxic waste and harmful chemical solvents were being stored in silos or illegally dumped into the environment. Rossi himself was arrested and eventually tried on 56 counts, 5 of which ended in convictions related to tax fraud. Rossi wrote that he was acquitted in the other 51 trials. As of 2004 the government of Lombardy has spent over forty million euros to dispose of the 70,000 metric tons of toxic waste that Petroldragon had improperly dumped. According to the mayor of Lacchiarella, Luigi Acerbi, "In the years when [Rossi] was working here, he didn't produce a single drop of oil, as far as we know."

We've been over this article time and again. The acquittals are Rossi-says which is worthless. And the Rossi process never worked. That is what matters, not that modern processes can perhaps convert some very carefully selected oil-based and restaurant wastes into fuel.

The article is also interesting in that it shows all three major projects Rossi was involved in: Petroldragon, thermoelectric converters, and the ecat. And nothing in the article says or even suggests that any of these ever worked in any way. That is the illustrious engineer's history of success. Absolutely nothing in his entire life except fraud and crime. Rossi, of course, does not mentions and he and his friends fight to keep out of Wikipedia, his long colorful history of multiple convictions and incarcerations in Italian prisons. Those are documented by news accounts of the time. The acquittals are for the most part, Rossi's inventions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…ntrepreneur)#Petroldragon