Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

The first phrase is correct.

Most glass furnaces are fired by gas: some have electric boost. The few all electric furnaces are the most expensive to run.

I know. You are clueless and just babbling.

And gas fired furnaces have been around for how many decades (or more). I find it disturbing that you compare a mature, well understood and well developed technology with an untested, unproven, unregulated, unexamined, not understood and not certified technology. I don't think you understand major corporations as well as you claim.

Quote from Shane D.

• Andrea Rossi August 15, 2018 at 10:04 AM

  Robert Dorr:

  Leonardo Corp will pay for the power consumed by the Ecat plants.

  Warm Regards,

  A.R.

  
  

  Does this imply Rossi will supply the electricity himself, or that he will reimburse the customer for it? I believe the former, as Rossi is a stickler for protecting his IP, and that best accomplishes that.
  

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The best solution for Rossi to not expose or disclose anything of his technology and IP and keep everything secret and out of reach of customers or interested people would be to simply deliver his 40 MW heat via highspeed internet to his customers...an easy task for a man who invents unknown stuff and super materials not available on earth by the hour

I am really curious to see how Rossi will wiggle himself out of this dead end street with his 40 MW nuclear plant to be installed in the backyard of an unknown customer and present a product to his blind believers like sam12 and AA.

If such a plant will be installed, quite some authorities will have to know about this to approve, register and certify and such a huge thing won’t work with out official and public awareness, otherwise Rossi would clearly violate laws and local requirements. No way. More a kind of another (last?) nail in the coffin to his E-cat Megawatt plant robotic factory fairy tale...

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It must be a genetic anomaly that defines the remainIng Rossi believers. They are intrinsically incapable of forming the thought: “wait a minute, that makes no sense.”

It's not exactly an anomaly. Humans are programmed by evolution to believe what they are told, pending further investigation. It has to do with safety in a constantly dangerous prehistoric life, filled with natural hazards and predators. If you investigate too often rather than escaping and seeking cover when you are warned of hazard, you get eaten or captured or whatever. If you believe the warnings too much, you simply lose some energy, which is usually not as terminal as running into a predator.

Like most genetic traits, this probably has variable penetrance and expressivity and depends to a degree on upbringing and other environmental factors. What you are seeing in sam12 and @Adrian Ashfield is the credulous end of that spectrum, Those of us who are highly skeptical are probably the opposite end. People like Shane D. are more in the middle, though from genetically skeptical view, he seems quite the believer. TTH is also inbetween -- it is very hard for him/her to accept that someone may be a crook... and so on. So genetic, partly yes. Anomalous, probably not.

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I am really curious to see how Rossi will wiggle himself out of this dead end street with his 40 MW nuclear plant to be installed in the backyard of an unknown customer and present a product to his blind believers like sam12 and AA.

Rossi only wiggles a few ways. He may say the deal fell through but, hey, he's working hard on a new one... or he may find a technical glitch such as the fuel stopped working, the device is too unstable, the certificators won't certificate, and so on. Or he may drop the design in favor of a newer 100MW design that fits in a teacup. Someone will probably believe that whopper too just like they believed Rossi's whoppers before it.

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If such a plant will be installed, quite some authorities will have to know about this to approve, register and certify and such a huge thing won’t work with out official and public awareness, otherwise Rossi would clearly violate laws and local requirements. No way.

No such plant will be installed. Rossi will wiggle out or lie about it some way. Also, he doesn't give a sh*t about violating laws. For one thing, he's a proven criminal, remember?

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More a kind of another (last?) nail in the coffin to his E-cat Megawatt plant robotic factory fairy tale...

Probably but never forget he only needs one gullible well-intentioned investor. I am sure Tom Darden won't ever forget that!

Rossi's commercial reactor is a low-probability, high-impact outcome event very much like an asteroid strike. If Rossi's commercial reactor happens, then the world will certainly change in a very big way.

Nobody has seen a "commercial (nuclear) reactor" from Rossi yet, we just have claims made by him on his blog.

I would encourage Rossi (as a designer and developer of such nuclear devices) to know and read the publicly available data and information on nuclear devices, which are more than striclty regulated, as THH has already mentioned. Not sure if Rossi is at all aware of what is required to operate a Megawatt nuclear power plant...

As along nobody has a clue (except Rossi) how exactly the many MW's in his reactors are being generated, his device has to be considered as nuclear as any other nuclear device we know.

Just as an example here is some interesting stuff on small nuclear reactors : https://www.nei.org/news/2018/…y-of-micro-reactor-deploy

(out of this: "The bill defines micro-reactors as reactors with a “capacity that is not greater than 50 megawatts.” These advanced reactor technologies have not submitted license applications to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and could be deployed by the mid-2020s.")

You will find tons of information on several web pages, e.g. like the one above, or here : http://nuclearconnect.org/know…ower-plant-cyber-security

https://www.iaea.org/newscente…etwork-nuclear-regulators

Anybody who believes that Rossi can follow his own rules in designing, manufacturing, selling, installing and operating (wireless!) nuclear Megawatt power plants (doesn't matter if they deliver in the end hot steam only or electricity, or light or propulsion or antigravity etc...) doesn't realize the world we all live in is more than strictly regulated regarding nuclear based energy generation. Cannot imagine that Rossi is partnering here with the responsible authorities to get all permissions to run such a plant via internet on a customers property... the public and we would know already in case such a new power plant is in the planning and installation phase...

Quote from woodworker

Dagnabit, I wanted to be the star. Can I at least be a co-star and get a full screen credit?

You have the staring role.

You are a colourful chap and a good choice.

Interested observer did not want it.

Now that the starring role is cast, can I be the zany sidekick?

Satirical - Yes, a 40MW reactor would be of great interest to regulators, spies, military, utilities,….. I predict that Rossi will need to hide it behind the same material used in the Doral mezzanine heat exchanger to be invisible to cameras, satellites, IR scanners, landlords, and neighbors for a year and without any airflow blowing on those walking by or planes flying by. Also the advanced technology will be put together by itinerant workers from the Home Depot parking lot paid without an audit trail and who keep secrets better than ex-CIA directors and Clinton’s interns in blue dresses.

Arguing with Adrian is pointless, since he is completely irrational and will never respond to any sort of reason. Perhaps the rest of us should turn our energies to arguing with each other. I would propose the topic of what is the single most ridiculous thing you have to believe in order to think Rossi's new project could possibly be real. There are so many candidates that this might be a very contentious debate.

Quote from axil

Rossi's commercial reactor is a low-probability, high-impact outcome event very much like an asteroid strike. If Rossi's commercial reactor happens, then the world will certainly change in a very big way.

Axil,

Good analogy,

The Ecat will produce Energy Out > Energy In

In the day earth gets hit by a high impact asteroid.

Quote from interested observer

Arguing with Adrian is pointless, since he is completely irrational and will never respond to any sort of reason. Perhaps the rest of us should turn our energies to arguing with each other. I would propose the topic of what is the single most ridiculous thing you have to believe in order to think Rossi's new project could possibly be real. There are so many candidates that this might be a very contentious debate.

Ni transmuting to Cu

I win

Thank you, Alan. What a pity if the competition ended before it began. So I'll chime in. It is so hard to choose, but the idea that any company would contract for a 40 MW black-box heat source of unknown character that will sit on their premises but be operated remotely by an "inventor" is pretty hard to beat for being too ridiculous to even think about.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

You really like spinning things to make them fit your version of the Rossi story.

You write "a conventional 40 MW heater costs roughly $60 million." Yet your link further down shows that is a the cost for a geothermal heater - hardly conventional.

A glass container furnace making 400 tons/day @ 4.5 MMBYU/ton:

400 x 4.5 x 10^6 / 24 = 75 million BTU per hour= 22 megawatts

It costs a fraction of that and a steam furnace much less.

In passing, why don't the operators around it, in a building with just natural ventilation, all die when you say just 1 MW would kill at Doral, with much lower radiation?

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I bet you had chimneys above the furnaces, directly or further up, so that the heated air went directly to the outlet without mixing much with the rest of the room so much.

It all also depends on the size of the outlets and properties like how much pressure drop you get over the chimney as a function of the flow, height of them and so on.

The size of the chimney is a cost and if you mix the output air with the rest of the room too much you will need bigger chimneys and a higher cost, hence typically the

above the furnace sentence.