Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • Acid tripping on ludes = good


    To get the most out of each, they should be taken separately, however if you are of a particularly nervous disposition then at the same time is probably recommend...


    Personal abuse should be clamped down upon, if only to prevent contamination of the rest of the forum.

  • That's a shame... I was hoping to name check Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Francis Crick, Aldous Huxley (any relation?), and Richard Branson in support of me.


    However, as this is getting well off topic, let's just agree to agree. :-)


    Suffice to say, I wasn't criticising anyone who did (or allegedly didn't) go to Arizona and get ripped off his gourd.

  • Yep - I've been dropping by occasionally but not logging in. I logged in yesterday to make a comment on Doc#77 then decided against that. R is getting clobbered and you can see him attempting to shore up his flank in an effort to keep his 3rd party folks from popping smoke and turning tail. I was going to point something out but decided that Captain Obvious had already made the scene.


    Anyway - I hope that everyone is doing well. It is fun watching the real sock puppets try to maintain their front. BTW - IH doesn't pay anyone to post anywhere - never has and never will. Also BTW - I think that Abd is doing an amazing job analyzing the entire situation based on the information that he seems to mainly be getting from the case docs. Smart dude! He should not have been temporarily banned from this forum. That made for a boring weekend in these here parts Also find it interesting that R is accusing the LF moderators, some of whom are his last remaining independent supporters, of being in-the-tank foils for IH now as well - more Planet Rossi hilarity. His world is in the process of collapsing on top of him. Quite sad actually.

  • His world is in the process of collapsing on top of him. Quite sad actually.



    Now don't go getting too sure of that Dewey. Rossi claims he has proof of everything. By that he must mean; proof that Doral was the GPT, results were legitimate and showed COP50, there was a product being made, totally endothermic...able to absorb 1MW on a very short production runway, JMP was a front for a UK company affiliated with Johnson Matthey, and JMP was not owned by himself, Johnson or anyone he knew.


    You never know, he may have what he says. I have followed Rossi for 6 years now, and so far when he says something, he has followed through on his boasts. Maybe not to our liking, but in some form, or fashion, he has. He is a sly fox, so don't underestimate him.


    BTW, congrats on hosting the next ICCF. Also, agree with you on Abd...he has this wired. Has Jones Day considered paying him for doing their homework? :)

  • While I don't always agree with Abd, I do not think he, nor any of us for that matter, should be ashamed, or accused of, because of our time here in pursuit of knowledge. If one disagrees, then perhaps they could give us a better outlet for our passions?



    Sure, this is the point.... I think that everyone can spend his own time here talking about what he wants, it's a free space in an (almost) free world. So I don't like when a person, who chooses to do it, is suspicious about other persons doing the same but in another place.

    Abd did not claim anyone was paid to post. What was pointed out was that this has been alleged, over and over, for many months, from the Planet Rossi side, when, if it were to happen, it would actually make more sense for Rossi, if his internet buzz is important to his economic future. I was internet buzz that largely created the big fuss, starting in 2011.


    Even IH has an economic future in the LENR Universe...... IH keeps on investing in this technology and is supporting research and researchers. So, if you deem important for Rossi to preserve his own public image for future investors, the same must be for IH. Thoughts like yours about this argument are the things make me think this forum is not so nonpartisan as you say.....

  • zeus46 wrote:
    Abd, why do I get the feeling this story involved lots of LSD?
    Oh, that's easy. Because you are an idiot, who believes that his imaginations have some substance.


    He should not have been temporarily banned from this forum.


    I presume that Abd have been banned because is NOT permitted to insult other users.


    It is fun watching the real sock puppets try to maintain their front.


    Quite interesting that somebody thinks that is not only permitted but also convenient to insult Rossi or who write in his favor calling them "sock puppets".


    Should I consider myself a puppets too ?

  • Yep - I've been dropping by occasionally but not logging in. I logged in yesterday to make a comment on Doc#77 then decided against that.


    Thanks for the explanation. Oh, by the way, did you know that the active users list is thread-specific?


    Should I consider myself a puppets too ?


    He, he, he ...

  • I would like to make a statement that is not in Abd's defense or against him.


    On this forum, users often make accusations and statements that are equal or worse than the assertion of someone being an idiot. They might not use quite as blunt of a word, but instead may use sentences or paragraphs to convey a meaning that is just as hostile. In my opinion, these more eloquent denouncements can be worse than any one word slur. However, very rarely -- if ever -- has anyone been banned for piecing together such a proclamation. Maybe one word insults should be forbidden due to the instant feelings of anger and bitterness they can create. But in my personal opinion, almost every day there are numerous posts made that are far worse, by both "sides" of this conflict. Of course if such posts were all banned, there would be no discussion here at all.


    To be completely open, I'm going to make such a statement now.


    The fact that some individuals accept the idea of Andrea Rossi's world totally falling down upon him due to the fact he has absolutely no evidence of any kind to share in his defense is absurd. For this to be true, he would have had to intentionally started the planning of the one year test with the intention and desire to spend his final "golden years" in prison. Because if he were to have zero evidence to refute any of the seemingly damning accusations of Industrial Heat, he would clearly be guilty of a whole host of crimes. If he had hypothetically set out to deceive IH, he would not have done so without insuring he would have something to defend himself with.


    Regardless if Andrea Rossi has serious personality "quarks" or other issues, he is not a late stage Alzheimer patient. Initiating a lawsuit with Industrial Heat with no evidence of his story of what took place in Doral would be clearly suicidal, legally speaking. As an example, he claimed a chemical manufacturing process was taking place. I find it implausible to the extreme (even in the worst case of the entire test being a scam) that he would have not brought in at least had some piece of manufacturing equipment that could have plausibly utilized steam to allow for a chemical reaction. Regardless if one pound, a hundred pounds, a thousand pounds, or ten thousands pounds of product had been produced, it would have been LITERALLY ASKING TO NEVER SEE THE OUTSIDE OF A PRISON CELL UNTIL PASSING AWAY FROM OLD AGE for him not to have some photo documentation of the manufacturing taking place -- even if it was only sporadically or on a small scale. The same goes for the employment agreement with James A. Bass. It would have been beyond total stupidity (if the whole test was a giant scam which I do not believe it was) for JM Products Inc. not to have an employment agreement or contract specifying details of the equipment he would be managing and the duties to be performed. The same goes for the many other issues. Even if he planned for the whole test to be a total farce from the start (which I do NOT think is true) he would have prepared documents and other forms of evidence -- even if fake -- to PROTECT HIMSELF before launching a lawsuit.


    I can't imagine him thinking to himself near the end of the test before filing the lawsuit papers, "Gee whiz! This is going to be so super easy! I'm going to sue Industrial Heat for 89 million dollars and additional damages, and they are not going to even investigate any aspect of my year long test! No, I don't have any need to make sure I have some form of evidence, even if conjured up illicitly, to protect myself when they start fighting back. I'm so glad my lawyer and I know better than to think we'll be asked to provide any hard evidence of the claims I've made."


    His lawyer, who he is deeply connected with, would have never allowed the lawsuit to be filed unless they had covered at least some of their bases, to some extent.


    My thinking is that Rossi's taking advantage of the fact that there are multiple people out there who truly think he is "insane." By not posting any evidence to refute the worst accusations of Industrial Heat or allowing the co-defendents (Bass, Fulvio, Penon, etc), I think he is utilizing a strategy to try and make the other side think he has nothing to back up any of his statements -- zero, zilch, nada. He's letting them think he has never had anything to back up a single claim, doesn't have anything, and never will have anything. At this point, I'm guessing one reason for *some* of his sock-puppeting is to further this concept, that he's an old man that's either always been a total looney toon or who has been sniffing heavy metal dust and solvent fumes for FAR TOO LONG.


    I'm not saying he has enough evidence to win his case. Although I won't say his chance of winning is ZERO, I don't think it is likely. But simple logic must dictate that he would not have sued (with the assistance of his attorney) unless he had *some* quantity of evidence to provide when he thought the moment was right. Without a shred of documentation, he would be guaranteed defeat. Even if the whole test was a scam, he'd have a MUCH greater chance of getting money from IH by trying to hoax a positive "small scale" test result. Or, if his technology *never* worked and the E-Cat has been a hoax from the very start, he could have tried to con IH into buying the "Quark" or some other variation of the technology from him.


    Personally, I don't think the test was a total and pure hoax (even if he may have fudged numbers or committed other acts of a dishonesty). My thinking is there was some level of excess heat, some chemical manufacturing equipment, and some level of production being performed -- at least for a portion of the time. My guess since I'm NOT a lawyer and have ZERO legal experience and NO legal knowledge whatsoever (SO TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT) is that he'll wait to reveal this information until the VERY LAST MINUTE. Even if it is no where near strong enough for him to win, it will provide the strongest "shock value."


    Perhaps he will consider this last minute, on the way to the metaphorical "gallows" release of information his "MAGNUM OPUS." He could pull a few wabbits out of his hat and shock everyone with something we don't expect. Again, I'm not saying something that will win him the lawsuit, but something that could provide the test with some limited degree of legitimacy and give the reality of his technology (not the performance of the one megawatt plant) a boost.


    I for one am convinced his technology is real, if a single watt of excess heat ever came from the shipping container in the ware house or not! And I don't think he has forgotten anything; conversely, he has more knowledge and experience than ever before. And if he is really pushed against the wall due to this lawsuit, he may surprise all of us.





  • MrSS,


    That was a strong logic defense of Rossi. I think there are many that do believe it possible he has something, albeit at far lower output then he claims. That would account for much of his behavior since he popped up on the public radar. It may also be the case with Doral...maybe the 1MW produced COP of 1.5, or something like that, but he rigged it to look much higher to satisfy the contractual terms triggering the final $89 million payment?


    One thing that seems certain though; by most accounts, he set up the Doral facility KNOWING it would *not* produce 1MW thermal. In terms of the suit, at the least, IH appears to be safe as Rossi showed some level of deceit just from that alone.


    I would also like to add that Rossi's lawyers are still there. If Rossi had nothing in his defense, they would have known early on. Would they then continue arguing his case, as they have, knowing he was lying? Say they knew he really owned JMP, had no production, used Bass/Penon to make stuff up for show...would the lawyers risk their reputations continuing on as counsel? My guess is Rossi has showed them at least enough so that they can argue his case with a straight face, and not risk their reputations. What that is...hopefully we will find out soon.

  • Regardless if Andrea Rossi has serious personality "quarks" or other issues, he is not a late stage Alzheimer patient. Initiating a lawsuit with Industrial Heat with no evidence of his story of what took place in Doral would be clearly suicidal, legally speaking. As an example, he claimed a chemical manufacturing process was taking place. I find it implausible to the extreme (even in the worst case of the entire test being a scam) that he would have not brought in at least had some piece of manufacturing equipment that could have plausibly utilized steam to allow for a chemical reaction.


    Everyone I know who has dealt with Rossi says he is a self destructive person who does inexplicable things, and outrageous things. Such as insisting that his reactor was producing steam during the NASA test, even after they removed the outlet hose and showed him nothing was coming out. However implausible it may seem to you, there is not a shred of evidence that any manufacturing activity occurred in the so-called customer site. There was no heat arising from it, no noise, no people going or out, and no materials or products ever seen going in or coming out of it. Many people visited the machine and confirmed what I just wrote. It is not possible anything was being manufactured there. That is out of the question.


    As you saw from the photos, it is not possible there was 1 MW of heat being produced. If there was any anomalous heat at all, it could not have been more than ~50 kW of low grade steam, or more likely, hot water. The pressure cannot be 0.0 bar; if it is a little higher than 1 atm (1 bar), there was water, and not steam. The flow rate was far smaller than claimed. There are not many industrial manufacturing processes that work with a modest amount of hot water close to boiling. There is nothing related to nickel sponge manufacturing, which is what Rossi claimed.


    If Rossi would lie to the extent of claiming that 50 kW is actually 1000 kW, why do you doubt he would lie about the remaining 30 kW? A person who would pretend that 50 kW is 1000 kW would just as likely pretend that 20 kW is 1000 kW. A person who would pretend that 50 kW is 1000 kW will also pretend that something is being manufactured in an empty room with no activity, no waste heat and no noise. Both are blatant lies that no ordinary person on site would believe for one minute. Rossi's data is also such blatant nonsense that anyone who sees it, knowing it is really is his data, will instantly dismiss it, for the reasons given in Exhibit 5. This is not a subtle, somewhat convincing lie. It is absolute nonsense.

  • Quote

    If Rossi would lie to the extent of claiming that 50 kW is actually 1000 kW, why do you doubt he would lie about the remaining 30 kW?


    Exactly the point I have been making all along. trusting a liar to tell the truth on occasion is simply foolish and gullible.


    People complain I repeat myself with regard to Rossi, yet, the same people keep repeating that somehow, somewhere, for some reason, Rossi might "have something". There is not now nor has there ever been any reason whatever to believe that Rossi ever had or has anything of value/ His past history is crystal clear. Nobody can point to a single lasting achievement or a single item on the market that he has ever, in his 60+ years of life, produced other than three silly but very costly scams. So Focardi was fooled -- Focardi was a kindly, elderly and sick man whose judgement was not what it once was and who very much desired that his belief in LENR should be vindicated. Rossi offered him that and Focardi took the bait. Or do you really think Focardi took apart the ecat Rossi built and insisted on checking the thermocouple placement, the input power and output power measurement methods, and do you think Focardi ran calibrations and blanks? How and why would he do those things when Rossi never allowed anyone else to do so? What possible reason would there be to think Rossi would have anything at all?


    And Rigel, sorry if I offended you about the Papp stuff-- it was not personal. If you'd like to have a civil discussion about Papp, I am happy to do it though I have said about everything I know already elsewhere. Anyway, if you want to do that, please start a new thread.

  • People complain I repeat myself with regard to Rossi, yet, the same people keep repeating that somehow, somewhere, for some reason, Rossi might "have something". There is not now nor has there ever been any reason whatever to believe that Rossi ever had or has anything of value


    There have been reasons to think that Rossi had something of value. As I pointed out before, other people tested his devices with their own instruments, when he was not there. They were in the U.S. and he was in Italy during the entire test. They got positive results in the kilowatt range. I am pretty sure I told you that, so you are being disingenuous when you say there is no reason.


    It is hard to know what to make of those tests. The people who did them did not provide me with much information, and they have never allowed me to discuss the details or disclose their names. Perhaps they made a mistake. I do not think it is likely Rossi managed to commit fraud in this case, but I suppose one cannot completely rule that out. I think it is unlikely they are in cahoots with Rossi.

  • Quote

    There have been reasons to think that Rossi had something of value. As I pointed out before, other people tested his devices with their own instruments, when he was not there. They were in the U.S. and he was in Italy during the entire test. They got positive results in the kilowatt range. I am pretty sure I told you that, so you are being disingenuous when you say there is no reason.


    Actually, you are the disingenuous one if any. I already said many times that anonymous results are worthless, especially when it comes to Rossi. He already bamboozled Lewan, Kullander, Essen and the professors and probably Levi and Focardi too. Why couldn't he just hornswoggle some other people, especially since you won't say who they are or what they did. Such information is worthless and is absolutely no reason to believe anything Rossi says or said. Heck, you're the guy who said that Rossi had proven his case on "first principles" with one of his silly demos! It looks as if your distasteful experience with Rossi, who discredits legitimate research in LENR, and Defkalion, has taught you little.


    As for reading the literature, which you mentioned in another post, I did that... or I started to. What I found, and it was among your recommendations, was confusing, badly presented, with unnecessarily complex figures and unclear conclusions or inadequate precautions. I do not think it proves anything but yes, I did look at it. I refuse to spend more time looking at more. I always asked you for the one single definitive paper which proves LENR is real and best as I recall, you always came back with way too many.


    Quote

    It is hard to know what to make of those tests. The people who did them did not provide me with much information...

    No, it's not hard at all. You can't make any determination from such reports. They are completely worthless and certainly no reason to believe a convicted felon and obvious chronic liar whose only past history is expensive scams.

  • Actually, you are the disingenuous one if any. I already said many times that anonymous results are worthless, especially when it comes to Rossi


    All cold fusion results are anomalous.


    He already bamboozled Lewan, Kullander, Essen and the professors and probably Levi and Focardi too.


    You are sure of that, but I am not, based on the first Levi report. It is possible Levi bamboozled himself.


    Why couldn't he just hornswoggle some other people, especially since you won't say who they are or what they did.


    As I said, they did not use his instruments, and he was not present at any time during the test as far as I know. They used conventional HVAC techniques. I do not see how how he could have fooled them under these circumstances. It is possible I suppose, but I do not see how. If there was a mistake it is more likely they made it themselves. I believe the mistakes made at Lugano were all the fault of the people there, and not to be blamed on Rossi.


    You seem to ascribe to Rossi a Svengali-like magic ability to fool people. Based on the data I saw from the 1-year test, which is described in Exhibit 5, I do not think he is skilled at fooling people. I do not see how that test would fool anyone. It was not a subtle attempt at deception. It was not clever. Anyone could see at a glance it was nonsense. If anything, he seems inept at fooling people. Another example of how bad he is at deception can be seen in his response during the abortive NASA test when the outlet tube was plugged up. As I said, he insisted it was working. They pulled the tube off and said, "Andrea, look! Nothing is coming out!" He got angry. He did fool anyone.


    Having said that, he has fooled the people Planet Rossi including many people here. I do not see how he has managed to do that, but I agree he has. I don't see how anyone can read Exhibit 5 and not conclude that either Rossi or I.H. is lying. There seems to be no middle ground. Some commentators here have said Exhibit 5 doesn't matter, or "I'll wait to see Rossi's response" to it. No response is possible. Nothing can explain away such nonsense. I suppose the people who are enthralled by Rossi believe him for emotional reasons, not technical ones. They say, for example, that it is inconceivable the entire test was a fraud. I say it is even more inconceivable that the warehouse atmospheric pressure was 0.0 bar (a vacuum). When we must choose between evaluating a claim based on our grasp of human nature on one hand, or instrument readings on the other, I go with the instruments.


    You, on the other hand, seem to judge everything based on your belief that Rossi is a thief and a scoundrel, even to the point that you are sure he can change the course of a test that he did not see or play any role in, when he is on another continent. You ascribe magical abilities to him.


    You can't make any determination from such reports. They are completely worthless and certainly no reason to believe a convicted felon and obvious chronic liar whose only past history is expensive scams.


    Beware of such facile judgments based on personality or personal history. You cannot always tell a book by its cover. Read about Robert Stroud, the so-called Birdman of Alcatraz. He was one of the most notorious criminals in U.S. history. He was such a psychopath, in 1916 he killed a prison guard in front of the other guards and inmates. He was so dangerous the guards would not go into his cell, where he was held in solitary confinement. Yet he was also a distinguished scientist. His book published in 1933 is still in print, and not just as a novelty. It is still pertinent.


    https://www.amazon.com/Disease…troud-ebook/dp/B004SB0A5W


    There are many other examples of bad people and untrustworthy people who happen to be good scientists. That is the most dramatic example, but there are countless others.

  • As you saw from the photos, it is not possible there was 1 MW of heat being produced. If there was any anomalous heat at all, it could not have been more than ~50 kW of low grade steam, or more likely, hot water.



    WOW that's interesting !
    You then states that for a year were only 50kW of energy were produced and nobody noticed it before now?
    We know from documents that Tom Darden had been there along with some visitors, some of which presumably experts in the field, and no one has noticed nothing.
    While you says that only the photos everything is clear?


    That is really amazing! And quite incredible !

  • Exactly the point I have been making all along. trusting a liar to tell the truth on occasion is simply foolish and gullible.


    Mary ..... how we can trust you ? Are you telling always the truth ? Your real name is George isn't it ?


    He already bamboozled Lewan, Kullander, Essen and the professors and probably Levi and Focardi too


    So in your opinion this guy is really powerfull much better then Mandrake the magician https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandrake_the_Magician_(serial) !


    That's not credible !

  • We know from documents that Tom Darden had been there along with some visitors, some of which presumably experts in the field, and no one has noticed nothing.
    While you says that only the photos everything is clear?



    Ele,


    As a beginner, it would not hurt for you to better familiarize yourself with the facts before commenting. The only "expert in the field" that visited Doral we know of, is Murray. And he was no "visitor", but an expert hired by IH to query Rossi after the alarm bells started going off. So obviously someone "noticed", and it was fairly early on.


    Back to the books for you! :)

  • You then states that for a year were only 50kW of energy were produced and nobody noticed it before now?
    We know from documents that Tom Darden had been there along with some visitors, some of which presumably experts in the field, and no one has noticed nothing.


    They all saw it. I saw a sample of the data, and I knew within minutes it was fake. The problems were described by Murray in Exhibit 5. Read it before you comment.

  • ele- "some of which presumably experts in the field, "


    not exactly so. From my understanding the ones with Darden where business types (Peter and Henry) not scientists.


    The times that scientist or engineers were there, Rossi escorted them out.

  • Mary Yugo


    No you did not offend me lol. I have a sense of humor and think we are all here to either discuss LENR or possibly the ROSSI saga. But for me it's about learning new ideas and ways of looking at existing physics.
    Questioning me is quite all right and should be encouraged as you say bs is bs after all . Separately I still find it funny that people are trying to doxx you.


    Anyway, I mentioned Papp because I try to look at everything (another example is cavitation). But to change the subject. For example, I also find that it is logical the electron is un-described.


    Another day. Edit

  • I already said many times that anonymous results are worthless, especially when it comes to Rossi. He already bamboozled Lewan, Kullander, Essen and the professors and probably Levi and Focardi too. Why couldn't he just hornswoggle some other people, especially since you won't say who they are or what they did.


    So it is easier thinking that everyone in your list above has been bamboozled by Rossi instead of thinking that they saw something really working? Rossi must be a snake charmer!! LOL :)


    I don't see how anyone can read Exhibit 5 and not conclude that either Rossi or I.H. is lying.


    This is a reasonable doubt. Who is the lair? Rossi or IH? This is the reason why I don't bother with Exhibit 5.


    From my understanding the ones with Darden where business types (Peter and Henry) not scientists.


    I think that scientists should have visited the plant before business men did it. Darden asked for money having no guarantee about the real performance of the plant...... A carelessness which is not above suspicion.

  • Jed wrote:

    There have been reasons to think that Rossi had something of value. As I pointed out before, other people tested his devices with their own instruments, when he was not there. They were in the U.S. and he was in Italy during the entire test. They got positive results in the kilowatt range.


    Do you have specifics for this? I'm not aware of any of the Rossi tests that provide credible reasons of this type - because all have crucial objective defects in personel or methodology or (usually) both. Perhaps you could say a bit more about this?


    ele wrote:

    Mary ..... how we can trust you ? Are you telling always the truth ? Your real name is George isn't it ?


    That is a despicable non-sequitur. What does the real identity of anyone posting under an alias here have to do with whether they always tell the truth?


    Regards, THH