Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

    Quote from JedRothwell

    The legality is not the issue. It is extremely unlikely he will be prosecuted for lying in a civil case. The issue here is that the statements make him look bad and endanger his own case. You seem to think that person will lie when lying makes it likely he will lose a legal case and lose millions of dollars, where telling the truth would help his case and protect the money. Explain why you think anyone would do that.


    People usually lie to get something for themselves, not to deliberately lose a fortune. Explain why you disagree. Give us some examples of people who lied in order to destroy themselves.


    OMFG! People lie for many reasons, good or bad ones, stupid ones. Logical ones even totally incomprehensible ones. I know that. That has nothing to do with it. The simple and only important question here is if You are Accusing Rossi of lying under oath?

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    "You" meaning anyone who actually read all of the available depos from Rossi and approach it with a fair mind.


    Are you saying it is fair to assume the heat exchanger was real? Despite the Smith report, the photos, and the testimony of everyone who was there? Despite Rossi's earlier lies about the vent in the roof and the impossible endothermic process?


    Do you also believe the Penon report?


    If you are actually convinced the heat exchanger was real, and you think the Penon report is valid, then I do not suppose there is anything Rossi could say that you would not instantly believe.

    Quote from steppenwolf

    Of course it is.... Maybe not in the sense that these statements are credible - of course they are - but in the sense that it enables you to both eat the cookie and keep it for later - since you can continue to accuse Rossi of lying in a lot of other cases when it is exactly as illegal as in the case mentioned. As I said the most logical and reasonable explanation is of course that Rossi is telling the truth in his deposition. All of it. No exceptions. Since everything else is criminal.


    Well there you go. You are now on record as saying "of course it is" duplicitous to assign high credibility to self inculpatory testimony vs. self exculpatory testimony.


    This provides sufficient evidence to me that you are either purposefully being foolish or trollish, or both. Which is a waste of my time and in my opinion, any other person who is interested in intelligent debate. So I'm done with you - to the blue you go.

    Quote from steppenwolf

    OMFG! People lie for many reasons, good or bad ones, stupid ones. Logical ones even totally incomprehensible ones. I know that.


    Do you know that? Okay, give us an example of someone who deliberately threw away millions in a court case by lying.


    Does Rossi strike you as the kind of person who would give up millions of dollars for no reason?

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Yes, I am 100% certain he lied under oath, about the heat exchanger and many other technical details. The heat exchanger could not possibly have existed. There is overwhelming proof of that. I am also 100% certain the reactor did not produce 1 MW as he claimed.


    I did not read his testimony about contracts or business, so I wouldn't know about that. I only read the technical testimony, and the reports by Penon, Murray and Smith.



    That is a very serious accusation. Libelous? If true it would be a slam dunk for IH to prove it and put Rossi in jail (which they would no doubt have enjoyed - and they obviously spent a lot of money trying). But i didn't happen. Did it? So, to me, it looks a lot more like more You are guilty of libel than anything else.

    Quote from steppenwolf

    That is a very serious accusation. Libelous?


    No, Rossi made the statements, not me. You might say he libeled himself.


    If you do not agree that the statements about the heat exchanger were lies, then you do not have much technical knowledge, and you apparently believe anything Rossi says, no matter how impossible or outrageous.



    Quote from steppenwolf

    If true it would be a slam dunk for IH to prove it and put Rossi in jail


    IH is not a law enforcement agency. They cannot put anyone in jail. They could inform the authorities, but it is extremely unlikely the authorities would charge Rossi with lying (perjury) in a civil case. That is what lawyers told me. People are sometimes jailed for lying in a criminal case.


    That does not change anything. It has nothing to do with me agreeing or not. You are the one accusing Rossi of criminal behaviour. You should prove it. Otherwise you are the criminal one.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Are you saying it is fair to assume the heat exchanger was real? Despite the Smith report, the photos, and the testimony of everyone who was there?


    It is fair to assume that the heat exchanger might have been real. The Smith report had all kinds of flaws and misdirection. The IH lawyers apparently didn't think to ask anybody that was at the building during the one year test under oath (except Rossi) about the existence of the heat exchanger, or any of its claimed hallmarks. And if they did, we don't have access to those responses.


    Quote

    Do you also believe the Penon report?


    I have no reason to believe that Penon was lying. The flow rates match nearly exactly to the pump flow rates measured by Alan. There were multiple temperature sensors. Phase change not even required to have a large COP.


    Quote

    If you are actually convinced the heat exchanger was real, and you think the Penon report is valid, ...


    I am not convinced that the heat exchanger was real. I hold out the possibility that it was real based on the evidence to which we currently have access. I consider it one of the biggest unknowns of this whole debacle. I think both IH and Rossi have much more information on this issue than was revealed to us. I think it would have been a central issue in the trial. However, IH and Rossi settled, thus sending the issue into a state of forever uncertainty. That was their decision to do that. Either party could have pressed forward to the conclusion of the trial. Most of the expense had already been made by both sides in preparation for the trial. But they didn't.


    Quote

    then I do not suppose there is anything Rossi could say that you would not instantly believe.


    The difference between the hyper-skeptics and those who let the evidence guide their conclusions is that the former are convinced of their position despite the evidence, and the latter maintain an open position because of the evidence.

    Quote from steppenwolf

    That does not change anything. It has nothing to do with me agreeing or not. You are the one accusing Rossi of criminal behaviour. You should prove it.


    His own words prove it, far above my poor power to add or detract, as Mr. Lincoln put it.



    Quote from steppenwolf

    Otherwise you are the criminal one.


    Expressing an opinion that someone is guilty of a crime is not, in any sense, a crime. It is not libel. When a sensational criminal case is tried, such as the O. J. Simpson case, half the public thinks the person is guilty. You seem to think half the public is thereby criminal. You have some strange notions.

    Quote from steppenwolf

    [Expressing an opinion that someone is guilty]


    Good to see you're softening up Jed. We're making progress...


    Let me rephrase. Expressing certainty that a person is guilty is not a crime. Especially in Rossi's case when anyone who understands the technical issues will agree he is guilty. This is not controversial. Rossi himself admitted he was guilty of fraud in many ways, such as pretending he had a customer. He made many other technical assertions in the Penon report and elsewhere that are obviously fraudulent. The heat exchanger claim is perhaps the most extravagant lie -- the most blatant and outrageous lie -- but I am 100% certain the others are also lies.

    Quote from interested observer

    “the anti-rossi-ists will not give up without a fight. It has become religion to them.”


    One of the funniest things ever posted here.


    Yet so true. I'd extend that to the anti-LENR-ites as well. People will go to amazing lengths to maintain the status quo. They will spend countless hours spreading FUD, filing complaints with state agencies, attempting to ruin professional reputations, harassing, threatening, and all sorts of mischievous behavior.

    Quote

    That is a very serious accusation. Libelous? If true it would be a slam dunk for IH to prove it and put Rossi in jail (which they would no doubt have enjoyed - and they obviously spent a lot of money trying). But i didn't happen. Did it? So, to me, it looks a lot more like more You are guilty of libel than anything else.


    I'll let Woodworker respond to that if cares to and is physically able at this point (I hope). The truth, from my lay POV, is an absolute defense to libel accusations and it is absolutely true that Rossi lied. In fact, Rossi has been lying, cheating and faking his results for at least 8 years and before that, he lied and cheated and faked thermoelectric device results and before that, he simply polluted an entire Italian province with industrial waste dumped into agricultural fields and irrigation channels. Rossi is a real prince. Presently, he is lying to prospective customers as well as dodging various regulatory agencies in Florida which someone has advised about Rossi and his activities and claims. What Rossi claims to be doing is highly illegal on many fronts and his only defense is that he knows it isn't real.


    I am hoping it will catch up with him but his faking is so obvious, the agencies do not take the risk seriously. That is why IMO Rossi is still not locally prosecuted. Those agencies are busy with real hazards and true safety violations and risks.

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