LDM,
Thank you for that. But I fear you are confusing the issue with the facts.
The babblers start with the conviction nothing Rossi does works, that when he says something that is proof of the opposite.
I have long since given up attempting to correct their mistakes as it never sinks in and they continues to repeat their errors endlessly.
Rossi was right when he forecast no experiment would ever convince them, only commercial sales, (might after years.)
@Adrian Ashfield wrote:
QuoteWhy not wait a month for some hard evidence?
Because we have waited for more than 7 years for hard evidence and Rossi simply recycles the same old lies the same old way (as many here have proven by quotes from his silly blog). What will you say when he again fails to show real evidence?
QuoteThe babblers start with the conviction nothing Rossi does works, that when he says something that is proof of the opposite ...
There's your problem, @Adrian Ashfield: what a chronic, consistent liar and con man says isn't proof of anything other than that his mouth or his keyboard are functioning. That's what you don't get and what you don't get is getting you.
At beginning of year 2018, Rossi talked about his plans for mass-production of e-cats in “robotized factories” in USA and Sweden.
Rossi on JONP: “I am optimist about the fact that in 2018 we will reach the massive industrialization phase. In these 2 months after the demo at the IVA of Stockholm we have added much progress to the Ecat QX in the direction of its industrialization.”
https://e-catworld.com/2017/12/31/commercial-lenr-in-2018/
https://e-catworld.com/2018/01/07/e-cat-qx-goals-clarified/
https://e-catworld.com/2018/01…unds-for-mass-production/
One year later, there isn’t any sign of ABB robots assembling 1MW plant after 1MW plant, not even one happy customer who proudly confirms that he gets clean and cheap energy made by e-cats, but instead Rossi talks now of a single 27kW e-cat installed in a secret place for a customer whose name he can’t tell.
What an achievement! 
One 27kW heater, which supplies heat for 20% less the cost than the “customer” had to pay before (The energy cost for an ordinary heating unit).
Assuming that a 27kW space heater would in average only run with 10kW (and this only during the cold season) Rossi could easily install any ordinary heater, and adsorb the “finacial loss” by himself. - A testimony of a “customer” that his heating bill is down by 20% would be worth the money.
Well why does Jed keep writing about the need for regulation then?
To go on about that so often when you don't believe the SK exists is insane. Likewise to invent great potential dangers from such a tiny device is nuts. It must be NUCLEAR! .... GASP!
Jed keeps writing about it to point out that it is absurd to think that a 40 MW heat generator of unknown mechanism would be allowed to operate in an industrial setting with no licensing, regulation, or other oversight. Other than a besotted and delusional Rossi worshipper such as yourself, no one would even consider such a thing to be in the realm of the possible. That is Jed’s point which, of course, you are incapable of comprehending.
Well why does Jed keep writing about the need for regulation then?
It is purely hypothetical. I am saying that IF the thing exists and IF a customer will use it, THEN it must be inspected and approved. Like any other industrial heater. Rossi does not get an exception from rules that have been in place since the 19th century.
I am also commenting on cold fusion in general. Many people, including some researchers, imagine that if they find a way to control cold fusion it will soon be commercialized. That is not true. It will have to be thoroughly vetted first. That will cost money and it will take time, but it will have to be done.
The thing with the safe reactors worked out nicely with fission
What is your point? Are you saying fission reactors should not be regulated, tested or inspected, because they sometimes fail?
No large scale technology is perfectly safe. Nothing is foolproof. Fission reactors must be regulated carefully because they can cause catastrophic accidents, such as Fukushima. If the Rossi device were real, it too might cause catastrophic accidents. Assuming the Rossi device is cold fusion (and not fake), it would be impossible to certify it. No one knows how cold fusion works, or why it works. There can be no assurance that a large scale cold fusion device will not go out of control and cause catastrophic damage. Until there is such assurance no one should scale it up.
Apparently you don't understand the difference between a fission plant that uses radioactive materials capable of a chain reaction or achieving a critical mass that will cause and explosion, and a LENR plant that doesn't use radioactive materials and requires an external stimulation to keep going.
Assuming the Rossi gadget is real, neither he nor you have the slightest idea how it works or where the energy is coming from, so neither of you can offer any assurance that the machine is safe and that it will not go out of control and cause a catastrophe. On the contrary, Rossi has repeatedly claimed the machine irradiated him and made him sick. He is saying it isn't safe. Who are you to contradict him? You believe everything else he says, so why don't you believe this? If the machine made him sick it would be crazy to install it in a populated area. We have to first find out how strong the radiation is, and how to shield against it.
If it does not use radioactive materials, what makes it work? Why do you claim it is safer than a fission reactor when you have idea what makes it work? How the hell would you know?
That is purely hypothetical when applied to Rossi, but it is a real issue when applied to actual cold fusion device. It is an issue no one in this field has addressed -- or even thought about.
we can just extrapolate from all the other devious ways Rossi has achieved false positive results without being sure how in those two tests it was done. (I have some ideas, but no real evidence for them).
What error did you find in the fist Levi test? Here:
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LeviGindication.pdf
An IR camera error is ruled out, because the IR temperature was confirmed with a thermocouple.
If you have "no real evidence" for a mistake or fraud in this test, then you have no claim. Your assertion cannot be debated or falsified, so it isn't science. It is just a feeling. I, too, have a gut feeling that there must be something wrong with the first Levi test, but since I cannot say what it might be, my feeling proves nothing, and no one can debate it.
QuoteI am also commenting on cold fusion in general. Many people, including some researchers, imagine that if they find a way to control cold fusion it will soon be commercialized. That is not true. It will have to be thoroughly vetted first. That will cost money and it will take time, but it will have to be done.
In 2019, some sort of commercialization might happen faster than you think. Perhaps the often mentioned military applications or for secluded areas. For sure, experimentation with it would be extremely popular if it could be ... controlled.
QuoteNo large scale technology is perfectly safe.
Indeed and especially not one which provides essentially limitless thermal energy. All one has to do is to confine that energy with a strong enough "tamper" (in the nuclear weapons sense of that word). Pour thermal energy into a fluid inside a confined space bounded with a strong material and the experiment will end in a substantial explosion. Do it really fast and it will be ... well... use your imagination.
Assuming the Rossi gadget is real, neither he nor you have the slightest idea how it works or where the energy is coming from, so neither of you can offer any assurance that the machine is safe and that it will not go out of control and cause a catastrophe. On the contrary, Rossi has repeatedly claimed the machine irradiated him and made him sick. He is saying it isn't safe. Who are you to contradict him? You believe everything else he says, so why don't you believe this? If the machine made him sick it would be crazy to install it in a populated area. We have to first find out how strong the radiation is, and how to shield against it.
If it does not use radioactive materials, what makes it work? Why do you claim it is safer than a fission reactor when you have idea what makes it work? How the hell would you know?
That is purely hypothetical when applied to Rossi, but it is a real issue when applied to actual cold fusion device. It is an issue no one in this field has addressed -- or even thought about.
"On the contrary, Rossi has repeatedly claimed the machine irradiated him and made him sick."
NO! He, Rossi, said, that he opened up the shielding, observing the operating E-Cat and that caused him trouble.
"He is saying it isn't safe."
NO! He, Rossi, said, it is safe, because there is no radiation measured outside the shielding note to notice above background radiation.
"If it does not use radioactive materials, what makes it work?"
NO! He, Rossi, said, he does not use radioactive materials to make it work.
The WHY/WHO it works is his secret. And the work of his genious minions (military grade, of course), who are in his great team.
And this is of course a point for regulataions and to worry about by government/agencies.
Because this very well might be dangerous at runnaway points (I dunno know if it is the correct epression, it's my limted english language knowledge)
If is comes to the point of a claimed 40MW power installation at a claimed customer, controlled via HTTPS ( Mega LOL) and all problems arise of this claim (and maybe installation of devices) he sais, it will not be a single installation, but splitted ....
So, your above arguments will not be of any concern to the Mega-Babbler, aka AA.
The real point of all of the preceding discussion is that if Rossi is actually operating a 40 MW heat engine of unknown type in an industrial setting, it is a flagrant and dangerous violation of numerous laws and at the very least puts him and his alleged customer in serious legal jeopardy. Unless, of course, the authorities have cleared it with Adrian.
European regulation
In Europe you can certify equipmen for use in industry to EU regulations yourself.
(This in contrast to consumer products and some special area's)
No certification institute needs to be involved.
You only need to conform to the current regulations and put the CE mark on your product.
You don't even have to report your findings.
It is enough to keep your test results somewhere.
And if they ask you for a report then you may make up such a report afterwards from the recorded test results and you are given time to do that.
It is thus even possible to put a CE mark on your product, whithout having done any test and nobody knowing about it.
And as far as I know there are no current EU regulations which can be applied to a LENR process.
But they will probably come after a while into place after LENR heating hits the market.
But since the regulation process is slow in the EU, that may take quite a while.
And untill then there will be no regulations in place.
LDM - you pretty much nailed that one.
Nailed for the Europrean countries.
USA is in this case not like EU. And Rossi is running his 'business' in the USA.
In Europe you can certify equipmen for use in industry to EU regulations yourself.
(This in contrast to consumer products and some special area's)
No certification institute needs to be involved.
You only need to conform to the current regulations and put the CE mark on your product.
First, there are no current regulations for the Rossi device, so there is nothing to conform to. There is no basis to put the CE mark on it. The EU regulatory agencies have not written any standards for it. No one can certify they are in compliance with standards that do not exist! The rules for the CE mark are:
There is no specific EU harmonisation legislation for the Rossi device. There are no applicable requirements, except, I suppose the requirements that apply to all heaters -- gas, electric or nuclear -- and Rossi has definitely not met any of them. His device is unsafe even as a 20 kW electric heater. It has never been inspected, tested or certified by anyone.
Second, a private individual in a building in a European city who is not even a licensed engineer would not be allowed to build a 40 MW heat source with no oversight, no inspections, or submitting plans beforehand. Rossi is not a manufacturer. He does not own a manufacturing company. A large corporation might be authorized to build a 40 MW heater, but not an individual. Rossi is not even licensed as an engineer in Florida. He wouldn't be allowed to install an ordinary gas furnace, never mind a revolutionary nuclear reactor that works by unknown principles that he claims irradiated him.
LDM - you pretty much nailed that one.
No, he did not. He has no idea what the CE mark is, or what it means, or who is legally authorized to use it. If you think he "nailed it" you probably do not know any of this either. You people should look up the regulations for the CE mark. It isn't just a sticker that some guy who is not even an engineer can plaster on to a 40 MW reactor on his own authority.
CSA inspectors will either need to visit Rossi in his “factory” or lab or Rossi will need to send a unit (at least his controller requires a CSA label!) for inspection to a CSA lab for certification...curious to see if this has happened.
Dear Andrea,
Happy New Year! I hope it is a good one for you and your family.
For the E-Cat currently operating in an undisclosed location, have all the necessary legal authorizations to operate it been obtained?
Best wishes,
Frank Acland
Sure!
<sarcasm on>
With HIM and all his (unknown) minions in this great team, his conjunctions to gouvernement, his weekly meetings with regulation authoryties, his army of lawyers and experts, who are in daily meetings with the customer, to set up a 40MW plant (in different locations) and controlled via his condo in Miami...
The answer is just YES!
Fine, after 31th of January, mankind will enter into exploiting a new kind of energy source.
WOW!
I'm amazed!
2019 will be brigth and awesome!
AWESOME!
Like in the computer game "Stellaris" after some couple of month, ordering the sceince ship to other stars... 
<sarcasm off>
First, there are no current regulations for the Rossi device, so there is nothing to conform to.
That is what I stated, no regulations in place for LENR devices
But there are other EU regulations which are applicaple to the control circuit, electrical safety etc
So even for a LENR heater you need for those area's conform to the regulations and put a CE mark on a product that you are complying to the applicable standards.
There is no basis to put the CE mark on it. The EU regulatory agencies have not written any standards for it. No one can certify they are in compliance with standards that do not exist!
As stated above, for the other area's apllicable to your product you need to put the CE mark on your product
The rules for the CE mark are:
I Know the rules.
There is no specific EU harmonisation legislation for the Rossi device.
Again wrong.
Not for the LENR process itself, but for the other apllicable area's you need to comply.
Second, a private individual in a building in a European city who is not even a licensed engineer would not be allowed to build a 40 MW heat source with no oversight, no inspections, or submitting plans beforehand.
Again wrong.
In contrast to the USA we have not the concept of a professional (licenced) engineer.
(At least not in the country I live)
There is even not a requirement that your certification needs to be done by an engineer.
Don't assume that how things are done in the USA are also done in the same way in the rest of the world.
Rossi is not a manufacturer. He does not own a manufacturing company. A large corporation might be authorized to build a 40 MW heater, but not an individual. Rossi is not even licensed as an engineer in Florida.
Again, we don't have the concept of licensed engineers.
He wouldn't be allowed to install an ordinary gas furnace, never mind a revolutionary nuclear reactor that works by unknown principles that he claims irradiated him.
That is probably true for the USA and I think as a person also not in Europe.
But belonging to a company he might.
No, he did not. He has no idea what the CE mark is, or what it means, or who is legally authorized to use it. If you think he "nailed it" you probably do not know any of this either. You people should look up the regulations for the CE mark. It isn't just a sticker that some guy who is not even an engineer can plaster on to a 40 MW reactor on his own authority.
Jed, I have had several courses in specific areas of CE certification and have been involved in many, many certifications and have been consulted on this area by other companies.
So don't tell me that I don't know what it means.
And as far as I know there are no current EU regulations which can be applied to a LENR process.
But they will probably come after a while into place after LENR heating hits the market.
You have that completely backward! Nothing can "hit the market" until AFTER regulations are written. You cannot sell unregulated, untested products. If you could do that, regulations would be meaningless. You could sell an unsafe automobile that kills people. When the police came to your door, you would say: "there are no regulations covering this new kind of car so I did not break any laws. Go away." They could not arrest you, or even stop you from selling more cars.
For products that are potentially dangerous to the public, you cannot even develop them or test them before regulations are written. For example, at present, every major automobile company is spending billions of dollars developing self-driving cars. Many of these cars are now being tested on public roads. Do you think this is done without regulation?
Before a single public test was allowed, regulators from government agencies in the U.S., Japan and Europe met with the manufacturers for months. They wrote huge books spelling out the details for safety standards the cars must meet, and how the cars should be certified for initial public testing. I don't mean regulations for when they are sold to the public -- I mean they wrote giant books with detailed specifications agreed to by all manufacturers, and they conducted millions of hours of testing before the first car rolled out the door onto a public street. National and local governments spent hundreds of millions on this. The manufacturers formed a standards organization for self-driving cars.
(All of this was covered in detail in documentaries on Japanese NHK national TV, which is how I know about it. I have not seen much about it in the U.S. mass media, which seldom covers industrial news the way the Japanese mass media does.)
Despite all that preparation and care, and the billions of dollars spent before any public test, a self-driving car killed a woman on a bicycle in Arizona, where the cars are being tested. No technology is perfect, or perfectly safe. I have no doubt that self-driving cars will kill fewer people per passenger-mile, but they will kill some people.
There is opposition to this testing. See:
Wielding Rocks and Knives, Arizonans Attack Self-Driving Cars
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/1…cars-arizona-attacks.html
No doubt there will be similar opposition to cold fusion, if it is ever developed.
Jed, I have had several courses in specific areas of CE certification and have been involved in many, many certifications and have been consulted on this area by other companies.
So don't tell me that I don't know what it means.
So, what are you saying? Are you are saying that an unlicensed engineer with a fake shell company with no employees could build a 40 MW reactor and sell it to the public? A reactor that works by unknown principles with no applicable regulations?
The guy could CE slap a sticker onto it on his own authority. The sticker means it meets all regulations, which would be true only insofar are there zero regulations, so it meets them all, I guess.
Do you really mean that?
So even for a LENR heater you need for those area's conform to the regulations and put a CE mark on a product that you are complying to the applicable standards.
So even for a LENR heater you need for those area's conform to the regulations and put a CE mark on a product that you are complying to the applicable standards.
By that standard, anyone could build a bomb in their basement. As long as the detonator and other controls meet industry standards, you are good to go. Right?
Heck, you could build a nuclear bomb. At least a dirty bomb. I am sure that the individual components of U.S. nuclear weapons meet every safety standard. But the device as a whole is not safe when used in the intended manner. To say the least.
As far as anyone knows, if the Rossi gadget is real, it might be a nuclear bomb. At least, it seems to be a dirty bomb. He claims it irradiated him and made him sick. Other cold fusion devices have exploded. So how could these things be certified safe??
