Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

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1. Eike January 11, 2019 at 8:30 AM

   Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:

   Which are the characteristics that a potential customer must have to be fit for the Ecat?

2. Andrea Rossi January 11, 2019 at 9:14 AM

   Eike:

   1- must be an industrial concern or a centralized heat distribution facility

   2- must give evidence that really already consumes the thermal energy he claims to need

   3- must give financial references to guarantee to be able to pay the bills

   4- must be in a geographic area where we are organized to serve

   5- must be a well consolidated activity

   6- must have all the necessary authorizations, certifications and permits necessary to make their activity

   This is the preliminar screening, after which specific situations must be analyzed.

   Warm Regards,

   A.R.

Rossi will probably have a hard time to be able to deliver, if the customer finally meets all his requirements (what a limitation of doing business, btw) and by chance may ask for Rossi's permits and certifiactions (6- must have all the necessary authorizations, certifications and permits necessary to make their activity). So we will have to wait for the next customers quite a while, and of course they will remain secret and unknown, but very satisfied

A business owner with greater than sea slug intelligence would need to consider the long list of alternative ways to save 20% on their heating bills before considering a crackpot scheme involving a serial scammer and a completely unknown, untested and possibly illegal technology. Therefore, if people here are trying to suss out the identity of Rossi’s customer, they should narrow it down to companies run by morons.

Don't most using big power use 3 phase 440? with step down's?

Rossi, strictly speaking, has never in his life had a retail customer he has been able to name. And he has never sold a real product to any company or institution either -- not one that he has ever acknowledged by name. What he did accomplish was to get investment and research and prototype money under false pretenses and by the use of lies and scams. Those projects were the Petroldragon environmental catastrophe, the thermoelectric converter scam, and all the ecat versions, whatever they are called. And none has ever been proven to have worked. Rossi also claimed to have been involved in a biofuels company and that might be but there is no clear evidence I have seen about what it did and whether or not it ever made money. Obviously, Rossi never actually needs anyone or any company to be a customer for him to claim he has one. It's so much easier for him to simply lie about it. And sam12 and @Adrian Ashfield and like thinking Rossi-buddies will reliably treat the silly claims as probable truth.

Quote from DnG

Don't most using big power use 3 phase 440? with step down's?

D,

Most using BIG power, are using medium voltage, (38 KV), to many hundred of thousands of volts, then stepping that down to 480 for in plant use.

Utilities generate/distribute ~500KV,

To reduce I^2r losses

Quote from interested observer

A business owner with greater than sea slug intelligence would need to consider the long list of alternative ways to save 20% on their heating bills before considering a crackpot scheme involving a serial scammer and a completely unknown, untested and possibly illegal technology. Therefore, if people here are trying to suss out the identity of Rossi’s customer, they should narrow it down to companies run by morons.

Where are the risk takers that built the US gone.Maybe Tom Darden

is the last one alive.It did not work

out for him but I still admire him for

rolling the the dice on Rossi technology.

sam12

Quote

Where are the risk takers that built the US gone.Maybe Tom Darden

is the last one alive.It did not work

out for him but I still admire him for

rolling the the dice on Rossi technology.

What?! ROTFWL! There was no need to roll dice on Rossi's so-called technology. Ever hear of testing inventions before giving the inventor millions? By capable and reliable third parties who are not involved with the inventor? Darden's pioneering spirit might be laudable but he majorly screwed the pooch in his approach to Rossi. Essentially everything he did about and with Rossi was simply stupid. And well... he got a predictable result. "It didn't work out for him" is quite an understatement. It didn't work out for Darden in the same sense that jumping out of a car and approaching a wild lion to pet him didn't work out for a tourist in Africa a few years ago. The lion killed the tourist and partly ate him.

Quote from Shane D.

Wonder what he means by the customer "must have all the necessary certifications and authorizations"...For the Ecat, or for his place of business? Whatever, I sure do not see many takers for this deal either way. Very amateurish, on top of all the things IO mentions. .

This search for a customers for heat is anyway just smoke and mirror again, which should make the e-cat look genuine. - Same distraction from the real goal as in 2012, when he talked about “pre-order list for home e-cats”, his plans with Home-Depot, and the “distributor licenses” for 1MW plants (No one of his distributor ever sold a single 1MW plant, because no one of their prospective buyer got approved by Rossi ).

I am sure Rossi is not interessted in any customer to buy heat.

I believe he wants to find some guys again, who buy into his e-cat IP / patent instead.

Same ”money making” as he did in 2012.

Also at that time he didn’t say anything in public that he is actually looking for a partner/investor... But behind the scene he got IH on the hook to buy the e-cat “IP” (which is worthless - as they learned it later painfully).

Obviously, you can’t make money by selling heat when your technology doesn’t work.

But, as we have seen with IH, you can make money when you find one who bites into the bait and buys the useless IP.

Shane D.

Quote

The court records showed him saying a number of times "even if there is a small chance". So he knew the odds, he knew Rossi, and certainly was not stupid.

You miss the point entirely. There is no necessity to take a chance on a known criminal and liar and there is no reason to "know the odds." What Darden should have known before giving $11.5M to a crook was whether or not the ecat, any ecat, actually worked, defined as Eout significantly greater than Ein under meaningful test conditions. If that condition had been met within a reliable test by an "indipendent" tester, then risking that large amount of money would have been justified. $11.5M isn't trivial. It would support a large amount of real LENR research. So, I have no idea whether or not Darden is stupid but what he did is beyond stupid and completely unnecessary. And because Rossi is vicious as well as crooked, Rossi cost Darden and IH unknown numbers of additional millions for the law suit. I would not call trusting Rossi or his close associates anything other than stupid.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

$11.5M isn't trivial. It would support a large amount of real LENR research.

But in this way the field got $50M to support LENR research. The Ecat initiative was a great financial success for the LENR field, the best in 30-year, and was achieved with a fair PR cost.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Shane D.

You miss the point entirely. There is no necessity to take a chance on a known criminal and liar and there is no reason to "know the odds." What Darden should have known before giving $11.5M to a crook was whether or not the ecat, any ecat, actually worked, defined as Eout significantly greater than Ein under meaningful test conditions. If that condition had been met within a reliable test by an "indipendent" tester, then risking that large amount of money would have been justified. $11.5M isn't trivial. It would support a large amount of real LENR research. So, I have no idea whether or not Darden is stupid but what he did is beyond stupid and completely unnecessary. And because Rossi is vicious as well as crooked, Rossi cost Darden and IH unknown numbers of additional millions for the law suit. I would not call trusting Rossi or his close associates anything other than stupid.

It is more nuanced than that. Like all good cons, and indeed all sensible high-risk investments, Darden's involvement was phased. Darden was suspicious of Rossi's tests, but before handing over the $10M he had taken a punt by paying Rossi $1M or so to get "independent testing". The tests signed off by the team of Swedish academics and Levi were not great, but could easily be seen at the time as providing some level of independent validation. Enough perhaps to take a punt on $10M in order to do proper in-house testing.

Darden's mistake was not initially to have skeptical and highly trained testers capable of seeing through smoke and mirrors backed by independent academics. For that you need somone able to do a deep technical analysis of the tests, able to assert their views over others, and wanting to test setups given to them in different ways to ensure valid results. The results from the in-house replicated Lugano-style tests were so good it perhaps seemed unnecessary - and they had been signed off by those 6 profs.

But he could not even do in-house testing without the $10M, and that is where he took a punt on a whole sequence of tests, culminating in Ferrara, that were conducted (it seemed) independently. Lugano came after as extra validation for Woodward (but maybe before the $10M - not sure)?

If you want to cast blame for lack of due diligence - look to Levi and the Swedish guys.

PS - I hope I've got the exact time-frame here right - if not I can be corrected.

Quote from Ascoli65

But in this way the field got $50M to support LENR research. The Ecat initiative was a great financial success for the LENR field, the best in 30-year, and was achieved with a fair PR cost.

Where do you get the 50M figure from?

Recall that IH was already supporting groups other than Rossi before.

Please give me how you get that number. Frankly I don't believe it.

Quote from sam12

Where are the risk takers that built the US gone.Maybe Tom Darden

is the last one alive.It did not work

out for him but I still admire him for

rolling the the dice on Rossi technology.

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Quote from oldguy

Where do you get the 50M figure from?

Recall that IH was already supporting groups other than Rossi before.

Please give me how you get that number. Frankly I don't believe it.

I have already answered you about these topics. See, please, Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion