Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Quote from Ascoli65

As for the research on fusion, both hot and cold, a much worse damage than wasting money has been to mislead the public and the decision makers

This is absolutely true for hot fusion! But no professor of cold-fusion has mislead the public so far. May be you still assume AR being a professore ...

On the other side Italy spends billions a year for family car of (Roma's) state employees... May be you should change the field...

Quote from Shane D.

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/rvd-depositions/#Cassarino

Abd put this out a while ago, but still makes for a great reference when researching, and then talking about the IH vs Rossi lawsuit. Later on I will copy into our library, so everyone will know where to find it.

Good idea do save docs before they get lost.

You might also want to save this presentation which IH apparently gave in China some time ago.

It’s hard to find now - seems to have disappeared from the Chinese server.

Wonder how IH and the Chinese thinks about this in retrospective:

Quote from Alan Smith

The above shows that you know nothing about the way these universities are controlled and managed. In most cases the administration holds the teaching staff pretty much hostage.

This is not true for tenured faculty members in North America. Do you know otherwise for European Universities? How do you know?

Quote from Shane D.

1. Andrea Rossi January 13, 2019 at 2:35 PM

   [...]

   Note: we will bill also the thermal energy recovered from the cooling system of the control panel: such energy is recovered with a COP close to 1.

   Warm Regard

   A.R.

Quote

Andrea Rossi

January 13, 2019 at 9:53 PM

Gerard McEk:

1- the heat dissipated by the control system can be recovered independently for independent use, or integrated with the heat generaation of the Ecat, for example pre-heating the the secondary flow, with an energy recovery with a COP close to 1.

[...]

Warm Regards,

A.R.

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Well, this means that you should not expect a very high COP claim for the whole e-cat SK unit (e-cat and control unit).

Why else would someone even bother to “recover” the heat dissipated by the control system, when - lets say - the heat generated by the e-cat is anyway 50 times higher than the energy supplied to the entire system (a COP of 50 as it was claimed for the “old” Doral e-cat installation)?

The USA is hardly the land of milk and honey either...

https://www.insidehighered.com…-track-according-new-aaup

Quote from Alan Smith

I know because my friends who work in that precise sector tell me so. UK is not so bad yet, but it is moveing toward the same destination that Italian Universities have already reached.

I see. So you have no direct experience with this. I think you don't really know what goes on.

I don't see Giuseppe Levi losing tenure at Bologna. How is the administration there holding him hostage? The most they can do is restrict his access to laboratory space ... but they would be doing this anyway because Levi barely publishes, holds no or few grants that I can find, and does not supervise students.

Quote from Alan Smith

... your reply is off topic, I was not discussing issues of tenure, but issues of beauracratic waste and inefficiency. Which are huge.

Good heavens. Do we really have to go over what you just said? You asserted that teaching staff are "held hostage" by university administrators, which in the context of the conversation I take to mean that you think that the administrators are telling the researchers what directions their research can or can't take. I replied that this is not true for tenured faculty and then you responded that it is true, especially in Italy. So I have given you an example of a tenured professor at Bologna (Levi) who appears to wander around doing what he likes with respect to LENR and asked how this corresponds to being "held hostage".

My knowledge of faculty life is from Canadian universities, not in European universities.

Quote from Shane D.

This is interesting. Taking into consideration Rossi previously said the customer would make a 20% profit over his existing energy bill, this tells me the Ecat SK works at 20% overunity. Right? If so, it appears we have something definitive from the man. Alas, but then then he follows up with that "Note:", which confuses the issue again...or at least it does to me.

1. Andrea Rossi January 13, 2019 at 2:35 PM

   W:

   We will draw the electricity needed from the Ecats from the outlet of the Clients, since we cannot make contracts with the providers to sell us electricity in a place that is not ours or rented by us.

   Our billing system will be very simple and clear: we and the Customer will put a wattmeter along the line that supplies electric energy to the control system, to read the Wh per month consumed by the whole Ecat System ( control panels plus Ecats ), so that we will have the worth of the electricity consumed by the Ecats; the bill will compute the price of the thermal Wh generated by the Ecats and the price of the electric Wh consumed by the same Ecats: the Customer will obviously pay the difference between the price of the thermal energy generated by the Ecats and the price of the electric energy consumed from the same Ecats.

   Note: we will bill also the thermal energy recovered from the cooling system of the control panel: such energy is recovered with a COP close to 1.

   Warm Regards,

   A.R.

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I see how it will work. It will not be easy for the customer to know what thermal energy they are getting out. Who is measuring this: Rossi?

The cooling system recovered energy... How can Rossi know what that is? And why if he has this high COP so control in power << out power would it be significant. It looks to me like control in power is large, and Rossi is billing for a large amount (the cooling power) of that! at supply cost.

Fascinating. And very Rossiesque.

Quote from THHuxleynew

I see how it will work. It will not be easy for the customer to know what thermal energy they are getting out. Who is measuring this: Rossi?

You are not allowed to operate boilers or generators without a full set of conventional instruments showing how much power and how much heat they produce. The types of instruments and the configuration are spelled out in detail in the regulations. For example, with a hot water boiler, you must install a dial thermometer six feet away from the boiler on a straight, level pipe. You must also have pressure gauges, float flow meters, a water level gauge, and so on. These are all 18th and 19th century analog instruments. Of course you can also install modern electronic instruments.

An experienced boiler room engineer can read the input and output power from these instruments at a glance. You are never allowed to operate such equipment blindly, without knowing the heat balance. That would be extremely dangerous. That has been the rule since steam engines become common in the early 19th century. The control panel instruments for steamships, steam locomotives and factory steam engines circa 1840 told the operator exactly what was happening, just as they do now.

Quote from JedRothwell

You are not allowed to operate boilers or generators without a full set of conventional instruments showing how much power and how much heat they produce. The types of instruments and the configuration are spelled out in detail in the regulations. For example, with a hot water boiler, you must install a dial thermometer six feet away from the boiler on a straight, level pipe. You must also have pressure gauges, float flow meters, a water level gauge, and so on. These are all 18th and 19th century analog instruments. Of course you can also install modern electronic instruments.

An experienced boiler room engineer can read the input and output power from these instruments at a glance. You are never allowed to operate such equipment blindly, without knowing the heat balance. That would be extremely dangerous. That has been the rule since steam engines become common in the early 19th century. The control panel instruments for steamships, steam locomotives and factory steam engines circa 1840 told the operator exactly what was happening, just as they do now.

Cue AA rant about how you know nothing and back when he was working you didn’t need any controls, UL/CSA labels, safeties, oversight, training etc.

Quote from Alan Smith

Bruce__H

You can create a straw man argument if you like, but go do it with somebody else who is a tad more receptive.

This has gone all weird has it not? I entered this particular argument expressing a personal view based on direct experience. Experience that I think you lack. Since you mentioned the situation in Italy, where neither of us have faculty experience, I brought up an example of an LENR- connected and tenured faculty member there. It was most definitely not my intention to raise him as a straw man in any way and it completely mystifies me how you think I have gone there. All I can do is give you my assurance that my posts are sincere and not some sort of trickery or manipulation.

Good then. We will now move forward on this basis and you will answer why you think that Levi retaining tenure while associating himself closely with Rossi an LENR is consonant with the picture that university administrators in Italy hold the teaching staff pretty much hostage.

Quote from Alan Smith

The above shows that you know nothing about the way these universities are controlled and managed. In most cases the administration holds the teaching staff pretty much hostage.

Yes, everyone is hostage to some social and existential constraints which are enforced by someone else. In our specific case, I'm aware of the possible pressure that professors could undergo in order to achieve the many goals that are essential to keep their department alive (number of publications, new students, private research funds, and so on), but this doesn't justify any unscientific behavior. People expect that professors and other public researchers put the truth on top of any other consideration or constraint, because they are regarded as the guides of the future, those who seek for the safest route which the entire society will follow. For this reason they have their job guaranteed. They can proclaim the truth without risking losing their vital income. It's a great privilege and, at the same time, a burden to be honored scrupulously.

What happened in Bologna at the beginning of 2011, and continued for the rest of that year, is tied to the 500 kEuro which were offered to UniBo to study the Ecat. I understand, it's an enormous amount of money for a small department,

Quote

But you will never complain about that since it gives no opportunity to show how much smarter you are than F&P.

I'm not smarter at all. Detecting errors is much simpler than devising them. Anyway, what else I should complain about? This is a scientific forum that deals with LENR. Most members believe in these phenomena, the others are invited to carefully examine the available documentation to recognize the alleged overwhelming evidence of their existence or to provide concrete demonstration of any mistake. That's what I did. I examined the F&P documents and exposed some obvious errors, asking the others L-F members to explain these apparent inconsistencies, but only a few did it for a while and now they are silent, leaving my observation unexplained.

I know, CF/LENR should be treated at a much more general level, as a socio-psychological phenomenon, or even as an existential one. The "Center for the Study of Existential Risk" at UniCambridge sounds like an appropriate context to deal with this topic in a systemic way. But if I mention the gentleman who deals with this topic, I risk the permanent banning.