jtomas style brings back memories ...unfortunately (Torkel was always using kind of that ranting against Rossi sceptics back in the days...)
What???
-
-
Oh, how does my speculation differ from other speculations using patterns to evaluate the state of things in this saga?
Not quite sure how to parse that. You attack and criticize people for criticizing Rossi. However, their criticisms of him are based on his proven (by himself) lying and obviously deceitful practices. Your staunch support of him is based on *what* evidence? Don't bother answering. There is none. He has never had any independent replication or verification and never allowed any measurements but his own (flawed) ones.
-
Not quite sure how to parse that. You attack and criticize people for criticizing Rossi. However, their criticisms of him are based on his proven (by himself) lying and obviously deceitful practices. Your staunch support of him is based on *what* evidence? Don't bother answering. There is none. He has never had any independent replication or verification and never allowed any measurements but his own (flawed) ones.
Ok. How is that Rossi behaviour can be considered obvious, and at the same time, behaviours just as obvious of the people here cannot?
-
Ok. How is that Rossi behaviour can be considered obvious, and at the same time, behaviours just as obvious of the people here cannot?
Jt,
Do you believe that Rossi has developed an Energy Out > Energy In system/device?
This is the only thing that has mattered since 1995 when he first started this saga.
Do you believe it or not?
It’s simple really, you can do all of the psychobabble interpretation and analysis of everyone who has ever commented and nit pick away at all of their idiosyncrasies trying to deflect and distort the fact that Andrea Rossi is a fraud and a conman, but in the end, it all comes down to Energy Out > Energy In.
-
the fact that Andrea Rossi is a fraud and a conman,
You, see. I certainly don't believe this to be a "fact" and since I also do believe it to be a fact that you don't know this for sure (but do not hesitate to state it anyway) the labels you use are more suited for yourself.
-
Rossi is practicing a new profession: comedian.
*-------
Greg Daigle
February 7, 2019 at 6:46 AM
Dr Rossi,
do you think the diffusion of the Ecat can be spurred by the US House Resolution on the New Green Deal?
Greg Daigle
Andrea Rossi
February 7, 2019 at 11:19 AM
Greg Daigle:
For now we do not serve houses, eventually, we’ll see.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
-
Quote
I find it kind of unsymphatetic (to put it mildly) to wish someone spending time in prison who is obviously not proven guilty of any criminal activity.
Well, two things. First, I have no sympathy for con men and thieves. So indeed, as you point out, I am unsympathetic with Rossi to put it mildly. Second, I would, of course, want Rossi tried and convicted before imprisoning him. That would be feasible but it hasn't been done because investigators and prosecutors have bigger fish to fry. And there are no complainants. I have always thought that Darden and company should have referred Rossi for a fraud prosecution but I guess they had spent enough time in court.
-
You, see. I certainly don't believe this to be a "fact" and since I also do believe it to be a fact that you don't know this for sure (but do not hesitate to state it anyway) the labels you use are more suited for yourself.
Beleifs are important and should be respected.
But we were alluding to the much repeated public evidence to back up the comments about Rossi's tech flakiness and deceit. Those support this "belief". Perhaps you just have not bothered to read it?
You were asked similarly to support your belief. And you reply with this? Sure: "I believe because I believe". May be enough for you, but don't expect it to have much weight.
-
I have to say that the remaining Rossi believers are well-schooled in the party line. Their greatest (and only) defense of Rossi is that there is not proof that he is fraud. What a compelling argument!
-
Beleifs are important and should be respected.
But we were alluding to the much repeated public evidence to back up the comments about Rossi's tech flakiness and deceit. Those support this "belief". Perhaps you just have not bothered to read it?
You were asked similarly to support your belief. And you reply with this? Sure: "I believe because I believe". May be enough for you, but don't expect it to have much weight.
What are you talking about? You're not making any sense. From what I can see parsing through an endless amount of comments it looks like you believe that repeating your opinion enough times in writing, somehow turns it into a fact. Sorry to bring you the bad news - It doesn't...
-
So jt, we’re still waiting for you to make even one substantive statement in support of Rossi. So far, all we have heard is whining about people’s negativity and how awful skeptics are. So why do you think Rossi is legit? Demonstrate how you make sense unlike the rest of us.
-
You, see. I certainly don't believe this to be a "fact" and since I also do believe it to be a fact that you don't know this for sure (but do not hesitate to state it anyway) the labels you use are more suited for yourself.
jt,
What would he have to do to convince you he is the scientist that he is and when?
If you care to look back at over 8 years of his lies, deceits, extravagant claims, fraudulent statements, fake documents, non existent customers, manipulated data etc, you too, being a reasonably intelligent person would say the same.
I, on the other hand am not as you suggest.
35 years with mechanical/electrical global energy engineering companies, member of IEEE/AEE/CEM.
UL, DOE, DOD, GSA, Fermi, Argonne, Oak Ridge, specification steering committee for EPact 2005 etc, etc, etc.
No one on the planet works like Rossi, and after 8 years of his charade, I have seen, heard enough.
When Rossi is long gone and the Ecat or all of its variants are nothing but whispers having never produced a measurable milliwattnanosecond of energy, what will you say then?
-
Quote
When Rossi is long gone and the Ecat or all of its variants are nothing but whispers having never produced a measurable milliwattnanosecond of energy, what will you say then?
Chances are he will continue to the Next Great Thing That Doesn't Work (NGTTDWtm)
-
Rossi scores a nice own goal...
Question was (probably by himself):
4. If a car brand advertised that a certain model could run for 20000 miles without refueling, due to a proprietary new and yet unknown and undisclosed phenomenon, but sealed the actual performances of such car behind a strong NDA, would you buy that car?
His answer:
4- if it works, yes
So here is the reason , why no one knows a customer or hasn’t seen sales of an Ecat yet, given by the master himself: Because the damn thing doesn’t work 😁
-
What would he have to do to convince you he is the scientist that he is and when?
Sorry about interrupting this discussion, but I see the current HaaS business plan of selling heat to customers as brilliant and at some point not too far away; hopefully someone will speak out or enough information leaks about cost/energy savings etc - and in the end it will be (almost) undeniable. It of course has nothing to do with science (Rossi is no scientist) - only business, and at least I agree with Rossi - that this is the best way to go aboiut it (due to the disruptive nature). Keeping a low key in the beginning is probably smart for the same reasons.
As long as his "sales demo" gives him, lets say 50-100 hot leads, that end up in 10-20 pilots in each country (Japan, Sweden and US) within a year or so. Then "word of mouth" will do all the marketing he needs. At the same time as these companies become more profitable, you will still be as skeptical here and deny that it is happening due to lack of information (it is probable you are doing it now with one custumer - so you will do it with 10 as well).
Kind of ironic, that the focus on "science" in the end makes this place (and science community at large) the last place where the reality sinks in - and at that time hundreds of customers are already using it to save money. I absolutely love that idea.
-
Well, good luck with that.
-
"... that this is the best way to go aboiut it (due to the disruptive nature).." - no, it is Rossi's way of doing business since many years.
You seem to be ignoring an important fact, that has been explained here many times: HaaS will remain a nice fairy tale - as long as the heat comes from a non-certified blue box in the basement...Rossi could have easily provided in his recent DPS e.g. a UL or any other certificate that is a must have. Without it is simply illegal...I know, Rossi said he has a certificate and Frank Ackland shows all over his place the new ECat SK ad that says "certified for industrial use"...
And: have you ever thought of a 40MW heat installation that is being discussed? DO the math and check how many blue boxes, controllers, piping & plumbing would be necessary...what a mess!
-
"... that this is the best way to go aboiut it (due to the disruptive nature).." - no, it is Rossi's way of doing business since many years.
You seem to be ignoring an important fact, that has been explained here many times: HaaS will remain a nice fairy tale - as long as the heat comes from a non-certified blue box in the basement...Rossi could have easily provided in his recent DPS e.g. a UL or any other certificate that is a must have. Without it is simply illegal...I know, Rossi said he has a certificate and Frank Ackland shows all over his place the new ECat SK ad that says "certified for industrial use"...
And: have you ever thought of a 40MW heat installation that is being discussed? DO the math and check how many blue boxes, controllers, piping & plumbing would be necessary...what a mess!
Exactly. As I said. It could well be considered a fairy tale by you guys even beyond the 100th customer. You perfectly describes the mindset needed for that to happen.
-
What would be then your mindset on how this can or could happen? What is your point of no return, that your hero is right or wrong in this Rossi saga since 2011?
No one on earth except Rossi (not even Mats Lewan nor Frank Ackland have a clue) seem to know where the heck Rossi' current SK customer is nor his many other ECat customers he claimed to have in the past 7 years? Of course, there are customers, because Rossi said so.
This is the difference, people here discussing facts (we all know) and are trying to explain why Rossi is wrong or a liar. Your philosophy is simply Rossi is always right - probably until he and his "products" and promises of a new fire and a better world will have disappeared in the abyss...
Edit: comment from Rossi on his JONP, which fits to his common history of dumping an actual E-Cat, that is ready for sale, for another more powerful and more effiecient device (as predicted here long ago...)
"While the Ecat QX’s c.p. was not enough reliable to be delivered to a Client, the SK’s is.
Warm Regards,
A.R."So we have to wait and see what will be his next big invention, as said already above by SOT (Next Great Thing That Doesn't Work (NGTTDWtm)
-
What would be then your mindset on how this can or could happen? What is your point of no return, that your hero is right or wrong in this Rossi saga since 2011?
No one on earth except Rossi (not even Mats Lewan nor Frank Ackland have a clue) seem to know where the heck Rossi' current SK customer is nor his many other ECat customers he claimed to have in the past 7 years? Of course, there are customers, because Rossi said so.
This is the difference, people here discussing facts (we all know) and are trying to explain why Rossi is wrong or a liar. Your philosophy is simply Rossi is always right - probably until he and his "products" and promises of a new fire and a better world will have disappeared in the abyss...
There is no point of no return. There's just a bumpy road ahead. Work to be done. Rossi could fail for any number of reasons; not having the goods is in my opinion one of the less likely ones. If so happens there will still be loads of important work to done. To work against something with considerable energy like you and others do here is a miserable mindset. Where's the upside in that?
And having a clue is not binary. Some; like Lewan and Acland, for obvious reasons, have considerably more clues than you have. As for facts; you dont have any (at least not the way you try to make it out) - most of it is guesswork and opinions; sometimes based on extrapolated indications and seemable "patterns", but mostly just extremely biased personal opionions - trying to fit small pieces of information into existing preconceptions - ignoring everything else.
But as I said. It doesn't matter. My prognosis stands - even when there's 100 customers using ECats in their businesses to save money and environment - you will continue to argue the way you do today. It's probably a genetic "feature" you have...
