I wasn't talking about SOT.
Well. (S)he's not entirely alone... But that aside - I agree that Mats certainly knows more about Rossi/E-Cats than all of us combined. And I suppose He knows that as well. And in that case there might not be much upside for him to engage in this (often time consuming) troll fighting game. I confess I find it an entertaining waste of time now and then, but hardly anywhere near enlightening.
QuoteBy putting it that way you sort of explain it well
Unless having wet dreams or an obscure fetish about trolls like you I would consider keeping the blog that way [censored] a very sensible decision.
It's a sensible decision only if you wish to continue being fooled by a conscienceless conman. It's a sensible decision if you only want Rossi believers reading your blog.
QuoteBut that aside - I agree that Mats certainly knows more about Rossi/E-Cats than all of us combined. And I suppose He knows that as well.
What's to know other than that all ecats are fakes, some slightly less obvious than others?
QuoteAnd in that case there might not be much upside for him to engage in this (often time consuming) troll fighting game. I confess I find it an entertaining waste of time now and then, but hardly anywhere near enlightening.
Ask Tom Darden if he would not have preferred to have a bit more enlightenment from skeptics before he offered Rossi $11.5M and caused the expenditure of $5M more for legal fees, based on negligent and incompetent testing. I don't mean to keep pounding on JedRothwell , but maybe he would have liked a bit more enlightenment before he defended Rossi enthusiastically the way he did in 2013 or thereabouts.
I don't mean to keep pounding on JedRothwell, but maybe he would have liked a bit more enlightenment before he defended Rossi enthusiastically the way he did in 2013 or thereabouts.
I do not think it was that enthusiastic, since I often said that any businessman would run from him. I think you reading in enthusiasm. Let me also say for the record that no one from I.H., NASA or anywhere else ever asked me whether I thought they should fund Rossi. I only heard about them after the fact. If anyone had asked me if they should give him $1 million based on the Lugano tests, I would have said no. I would say maybe $100,000 would be in order, to purchase and test some machines, with a money-back guarantee if they do not work. Based on what I heard from the people at NASA, I doubt he would pay back if the test failed. But if he would not even guarantee it in the first place I would say no deal.
Actually, I do not recall anyone asking me whether they should fund any cold fusion research. People have asked me my opinion of papers and research from time to time. Authors often ask me to copy edit papers.
Italo R gets an important point across to A.R. he replies.
Dear Dr. Rossi,
in your recent posts, you are saying that you are already working with your Customers and that you are under NDA therefore, rightly, you can not give any information about them.
I am sure you are aware of how much interest there is on this whole affair by all those who are following you for so many years.
There are many blogs in which some write: “So much chatter, no visible results, so the E-Cat does not exist.”.
Others say: “It is necessary to wait for at least one client to show up, and it can also take a long time.”
I know that these opinions do not interest you at all, while you are working according to your plans.
But here, in the world of those who follow you, there is all a ferment of impatient expectation.
Kind Regards,
Italo R.
Italo R.:
What the rock and troll music says is not an issue. I understand that our friends and sustainers are anxious to know more about our Clients and sooner or later this will happen.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
How often did you hear or read already “sooner or later”?
April 1st is approaching soon, it is Adrian’s milestone...
It's a sensible decision only if you wish to continue being fooled by a conscienceless conman. It's a sensible decision if you only want Rossi believers reading your blog.
Ehh. Mats knows way more than you do about these issues (which isn't that hard I admit) - so he surely would not benefit from having you or other members of the anti-Rossi troll community polluting his blog with endless FUD. And trust me, everyone interested is reading it (not only believers) because he is an insider and he knows a lot more than most other participants in this saga - ti is required reading... I can understand this is frustrating for you - if it gets too bad you should see a doctor about it - get some lithium maybe...
Ehh. Mats knows way more than you do about these issues (which isn't that hard I admit) - so he surely would not benefit from having you or other members of the anti-Rossi troll community polluting his blog with endless FUD. And trust me, everyone interested is reading it (not only believers) because he is an insider and he knows a lot more than most other participants in this saga - ti is required reading... I can understand this is frustrating for you - if it gets too bad you should see a doctor about it - get some lithium maybe...
Mats knows less about the scientific stuff (Rossi tests) than we do here. He deliberately shields himself from negative evaluations (like ECW). His ability just to ignore stuff that does not fit his story is pretty legendary.
Mats is indeed an insider, and like all such, he suffers from groupthink and prejudice.
He is a valuable source of information, but not a good impartial observer.
THH
Display MoreMats knows less about the scientific stuff (Rossi tests) than we do here. He deliberately shields himself from negative evaluations (like ECW). His ability just to ignore stuff that does not fit his story is pretty legendary.
Mats is indeed an insider, and like all such, he suffers from groupthink and prejudice.
He is a valuable source of information, but not a good impartial observer.
THH
Is that so? Says who? A semi anonymous nobody dedicating his life to spread as much FUD as possible about everything LENR/Rossi... And please tell me on what you base the conclusion that "an insider, and like all such, he suffers from groupthink and prejudice." Did you just make that up because it sounds good and induce some more FUD? Are you an expert in this area? I guess not... Actually an insider is called an insider because an insider knows more than others about the subject he has inside information about. Thats about it.
Back it if off a little. Alan.
.. I can understand this is frustrating for you - if it gets too bad you should see a doctor about it - get some lithium maybe...
My criticism of this forum was that there were too many personal insults allowed, particularly from the misandRossic crowd. Please don't start with it -- don't start nuthin', won't be nuthin. Your comment downshifted into an insult of the other person rather than just dealing with what he said...
How often did you hear or read already “sooner or later”?
April 1st is approaching soon, it is Adrian’s milestone...
April 1 was my milestone not Adrians but i have
decided to stay following Rossi until the end
of this year and reavaluate then whether to
keep following him.
Mats being an insider is like insiders in the flat earth movement. They may have inside information, but that information is bogus. Whatever happened to Mats new age symposium or whatever he called it, because he delayed it stating LENR was going to be available commercially "soon", but that was years ago. I can't believe someone trained in science could be so gullible.
April 1 was my milestone not Adrians but i have
decided to stay following Rossi until the end
of this year and reavaluate then whether to
keep following him.
What a surprise!
QuoteI can't believe someone trained in science could be so gullible.
Unfortunately, training is not inoculation against gullibility and no amount of technical training is likely to help those who are too credulous. It's a hard wired function in some human brains and the evolutionary advantage has been studied and is quite obvious. The only help is from specific training in magic, sleight of hand, and the other marvelous ways "conjurers" and magicians entertain by fooling the senses and the brain. By studying the art of magic, one begins to understand how possible it is to make people perceive and often believe things which are not really happening. The study of the history of major cons and frauds is also often salutary for those who believe claims too easily.
Unfortunately, training is not inoculation against gullibility and no amount of technical training is likely to help those who are too credulous. It's a hard wired function in some human brains and the evolutionary advantage has been studied and is quite obvious. The only help is from specific training in magic, sleight of hand, and the other marvelous ways "conjurers" and magicians entertain by fooling the senses and the brain. By studying the art of magic, one begins to understand how possible it is to make people perceive and often believe things which are not really happening. The study of the history of major cons and frauds is also often salutary for those who believe claims too easily.
The Lugano test was run by a group of folks who had the chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society armed with a Fraud Detection Kit. What exactly did they NOT do? There is evidence just by that alone, that they were ready for fraud. So how do you show that Rossi is a fraud and got it past these 7 skeptical Swedes in a black box test?
All ya gotta do is prove it. Or even less than proof, just show that it is the most likely possibility in an inductive fashion.
Lurkers will note this standard bullshit bifurcation. It goes like this: They can't prove Rossi's IP is worthless (otherwise, why did IH ask for it in their countersuit?) so either Rossi is an inventor genius or a con-man genius. Either way, he's a genius.
So... Rossi is a con man. Show HOW he hoodwinked 7 skeptical Swedes in a black box test, plus Focardi/Piantelli and others. Show HOW his con was so effective that Industrial Heat asked for his Intellectual Property in their countersuit, and held onto to that stance for over a year, paying about $5M more for lawyers when they would have gotten exactly the same settlement a year earlier.
why did IH ask for it in their countersuit?
This is what Darden said (207-09, page 4 of 20)
9 Q. Do you think it has any value - based on
10 that and based on what you know sitting here today, do
11 you think it has any value whatsoever?
12 A. We don't know. It's an option on future
13 value. Is it possible that someone In the future might
14 be able to do something with this IP. We can't; Rossi
15 can't. But is it possible that somebody might or that
16 occasionally at some point it might work. We don't
17 know.
They can't prove Rossi's IP is worthless (otherwise, why did IH ask for it in their countersuit?
Do you have a reference for "IH asking for the IP in their countersuit"?
Do you have a reference for "IH asking for the IP in their countersuit"?
That was 18 months ago. I thought I got the information from LENR-Forum but the search engines don't help out much.
Here's some of the language from the countersuit. I didn't go through the whole thing.
Counter-Plaintiffs were unable to replicate any of
Leonardo and Rossi’s claimed results or otherwise generate measurable excess energy. This led
Counter-Plaintiffs to realize that there were only three possible conclusions: 1) Leonardo and
Rossi’s claimed results, including the purported results from the Validation, were fabricated; 2)
Leonardo and Rossi did not provide all of the E-Cat IP to Counter-Plaintiffs as was required
under the License Agreement in exchange for the $10 million payment; or 3) both.
6) notify Counter-Plaintiffs in writing of any additions, deletions, or changes in status of the
Licensed Patents or patent applications related to the Licensed Patents. See id. § 7.1. The
License Agreement also imposes limitations on Leonardo’s ability to abandon any patent
application or patent that is a Licensed Patent. See id. § 7.2.
40. Fifth, the License Agreement contains a “Covenant Not to Compete” provision
that prohibits Leonardo, Rossi, or any of their affiliates from directly or indirectly owning,
managing, operating, joining, or having a financial interest in any other business or enterprise “(a)
engaged in the design, development, manufacture, distribution, lease, rental or sale of any E-Cat
Products, or provision of any services related thereto or (b) which is competitive with the E-Cat
Products, unless Leonardo . . . shall have obtained the prior written consent of [CounterPlaintiffs].” Id. § 13.3.
42. Finally, the License Agreement, as amended by the First Amendment, prohibits
Leonardo and Rossi from “assign[ing] or otherwise transfer[ring] any of [their] rights . . . under
this Agreement, in each case whether voluntarily, involuntarily, by operation of law or otherwise,
without [Counter-Plaintiffs’] prior written consent.” Id. § 16.7; First Amendment § 1.C.
61. Shortly after the Plant was delivered, Industrial Heat retained Fabiani, who had
long worked with Rossi, as an independent contractor.....
Industrial Heat engaged USQL and Fabiani – who joined the USQL Agreement in his individual
capacity – to “provide services related to the manufacture and development” of the Plant and
related E-Cat IP. USQL Agreement at 1. The USQL Agreement required, among other things,
that USQL and Fabiani:
Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 29 Entered on FLSD Docket 08/06/2016 Page 38 of 66
- 38 -
promptly disclose to Industrial Heat any and all improvements, inventions,
developments, discoveries, innovations, systems, techniques, processes, formulas,
programs and other things that may be of assistance to Industrial Heat or its
affiliates, whether patentable or unpatentable, that (i) relate to the actual or
demonstrably anticipated research or development by Industrial Heat or any of its
affiliates, or (ii) result from any work performed by USQL for or at the request of
Industrial Heat, or (iii) are developed on Industrial Heat’s time or using the
equipment, supplies or facilities or any Confidential Information or trade secret
information of Industrial Heat, or any of its affiliates; and that are made or
conceived by USQL . . . while engaged by Industrial Heat.
82. The USQL Agreement imposes an affirmative obligation upon USQL and Fabiani
promptly to disclose information relating to their work on the Plant or the E-Cat IP. See USQL
Agreement § 7. The USQL Agreement also makes clear that information obtained by USQL or
Fabiani during the course of their work under the USQL Agreement is the sole property of
Industrial Heat. Id. § 6.
84. Furthermore, Fabiani and USQL have refused and continue to refuse to provide
records, “tests and results” and other information relating to their engagement under the USQL
Agreement to Industrial Heat, even though they agreed that such information is the property of
Industrial Heat. Id. § 6.
106. Disclosure of the E-Cat IP also harmed Counter-Plaintiffs. For example, CounterPlaintiffs have paid $11.5 million to Leonardo and millions more to a third party per the License
Agreement for (among other things) control over any disclosure of the E-Cat IP. Clearly any
value associated with the exclusive control over the disclosure of the E-Cat IP was diminished
with any disclosure of the E-Cat IP by Leonardo and Rossi without Counter-Plaintiffs’ consent.
To the extent that the E-Cat IP
has commercial value, Counter-Plaintiffs’ ability to capture that value is substantially harmed by
Leonardo and Rossi’s improper disclosures.
108. On February 17, 2016, IPH, through its counsel, requested that Leonardo and
Rossi “assign to IPH the Licensed Patents (as defined by the [License] Agreement) with respect
to the Territory (as also defined in the [License] Agreement).” IPH also provided Leonardo and
Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 29 Entered on FLSD Docket 08/06/2016 Page 53 of 66
- 53 -
Rossi an appropriate assignment form by which to assign the Licensed Patents. The request and
assignment form are attached hereto as Exhibit 23.
110. Leonardo and Rossi’s failure to assign the Licensed Patents to IPH caused IPH to
suffer damages in that it is unable to secure any value that might be derived from having control
over the Licensed Patents.
Leonardo shall not abandon any such
Licensed Patent except upon the prior written consent of [Counter-Plaintiffs].” Id. at § 7.2.
113. After executing the License Agreement, Leonardo filed patent applications
relating to the Licensed Patents without informing Counter-Plaintiffs.
114. Leonardo also failed to keep Counter-Plaintiffs informed of the progress of the
patent applications relating to the Licensed Patents. Finally, Leonardo, without prior written
consent from Counter-Plaintiffs, abandoned several patent applications.
116. As a result of the foregoing, Counter-Plaintiffs have been harmed, not only as a
result of the fees and expenses they paid, but also the diminution in value of the E-Cat IP for
which they paid millions of dollars as a result of Leonardo’s improper handling of patent
applications.
for an additional period of two (2) years after the last of
Leonardo, Rossi or such Affiliate shall have ceased to provide such services, none
of Leonardo, Rossi or any of their Affiliates will (except as an officer, director,
stockholder, employee, agent or consultant of the Company or such subsidiary or
the Company) directly or indirectly own, manage, operate, join, or have a
financial interest in, control or participate in the ownership, management,
operation or control of, or be employed or engaged as an employee, agent or
consultant, or in any other individual or representative capacity whatsoever, or
use or permit their names to be used in connection with, or be otherwise
connected in any manner with any business or enterprise (a) engaged in the
Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 29 Entered on FLSD Docket 08/06/2016 Page 55 of 66
- 55 -
design, development, manufacture, distribution, lease, rental or sale of any E-Cat
Products, or the provision of any services related thereto or (b) which is
competitive with the E-Cat Products, unless Leonardo or such Affiliate shall have
obtained the prior written consent of the Company or such subsidiary of the
Company, as the case may be.
118. Since at least the filing of their Complaint, and likely for months prior, Leonardo
and Rossi have been open in broadcasting that they are engaged in designing and developing
what are classified as “E-Cat Products” under the License Agreement. They have also been open
that they are doing so in combination with a company or companies unaffiliated with CounterPlaintiffs. See e.g., Ex. 24.
119. Counter-Plaintiffs have not provided written consent to such conduct.
120. As a result, the conduct – regardless of whether it will ever lead to the creation of
a viable commercial product that can be sold, leased, or rented – is in direct conflict with the
License Agreement.8
121. Leonardo and Rossi’s violations of the License Agreement’s covenant not to
compete have caused Counter-Plaintiffs to suffer harm, including the diminution in value of the
E-Cat IP for which they paid millions of dollars.
8
The License Agreement also includes a “Right of First Offer” provision that requires Leonardo and Rossi to
provide Counter-Plaintiffs with notice of their intent to license the E-Cat IP outside of the Territory covered by the
License Agreement, and to give Counter-Plaintiffs an opportunity to purchase such license. License Agreement §
13.2. Upon information and belief, Leonardo and Rossi have breached this provision as well by licensing or
offering to license the E-Cat IP outside of the Territory without first offering such license to Counter-Plaintiffs.
Mats being an insider is like insiders in the flat earth movement. They may have inside information, but that information is bogus. Whatever happened to Mats new age symposium or whatever he called it, because he delayed it stating LENR was going to be available commercially "soon", but that was years ago. I can't believe someone trained in science could be so gullible.
This kind of FUD comment I suppose is a good enough reason for Mats to not engage in the troll fighting game going on here... 
It's hard enough to argue with intelligent people, but to do it with the imbecilles on the other end of the spectrum has absolutely no upside ...
steppenwolf - believing in LENR in general, if I could I would love to find arguments pro "Rossi-LENR" products, but this is way out of my understanding how the real world and its business works.
What in the end let's you believe (pls provide facts that may support any of your" reasons to believe", other than Rossi's silly blog and "RossiWrites" (it is unfortunately not even a Rossi says to be more precise...)? How would you explain Rossi's behavior, if his partner is indeed a serious industrial game player? Do you really believe that e.g. GE or ABB or any other big fish would allow a contracted business partner (Andrea Rossi and/or Leonardo) such a disastrous and clownish presentation or dealing with his gullible followers on his blog?
Oh, I know, Rossi is so smart, this is all on purpose, simply to mislead and deceive his competitors, the rock and trolls and snakes out there. Rossi is playing games in his favor instead of bringing a product to light that serves him (big money, Nobel price) and mankind (mobile, cheap heat everywhere where needed)...
steppenwolf - believing in LENR in general, if I could I would love to find arguments pro "Rossi-LENR" products, but this is way out of my understanding how the real world and its business works.
What in the end let's you believe (pls provide facts that may support any of your" reasons to believe", other than Rossi's silly blog and "RossiWrites" (it is unfortunately not even a Rossi says to be more precise...)? How would you explain Rossi's behavior, if his partner is indeed a serious industrial game player? Do you really believe that e.g. GE or ABB or any other big fish would allow a contracted business partner (Andrea Rossi and/or Leonardo) such a disastrous and clownish presentation or dealing with his gullible followers on his blog?
Oh, I know, Rossi is so smart, this is all on purpose, simply to mislead and deceive his competitors, the rock and trolls and snakes out there. Rossi is playing games in his favor instead of bringing a product to light that serves him (big money, Nobel price) and mankind (mobile, cheap heat everywhere where needed)...
I actually find the behaviour of the anti-Rossi troll community much more interesting than "RossiWrites" (which is what it is, regardless of being good business or not). How is it possible that so many spend so much time trashing LENR in general, and Rossi in particular? Since I believe there are always hard core motives or other incentives that drives this kind of behavior I would like to have them specified. I believe that if these motives (being it envy, wrath, greed, pride or something worse) were brought out of the darkness, we would all be enlightened.
