Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

    WCG always finds excuses and nice interpretations in favor of Rossi, doesn't matter how silly or crazy Rossi's activities are...reminds me on many folks posting on ECW (e.g. LarryJ and others), in their eyes Rossi simply can't be wrong. That is the law...otherwise the world would be in disarray :)

    Probably first time i'm lost here because I didn't think I had ocean of skills required.

    However Storms suggested here recently that Rossi's earlier ecat should run by a water shift reaction around CO + CO2 + H2O.

    Maybe he added both lithium to increase XH ?

    As explanation i suggest this process is close to Groszek's paper shared by Alan Smith.

    Here i shared some pictures for your understanding :





    • Official Post

    My interest in Groszek also led me to this - posted in another thread a couple of years back:-


    This paper was presented, by one of the great scientists of his time, Lord Rayleigh, at a meeting of the Royal Society. If correct, it is in actual fact a very important paper indeed - and it might just be describing an LENR event. Keen observers will note the (moderate) similarities to a more recent patent I mentioned in here :- US 20130276771 A1. Filed by Aleksander Groszek in 2010. This describes a method of generating thermal energy, by contacting the surface of a metal with hydrogen gas, forming a surface having hydrogen absorbed thereon. The hydrogenated surface is then exposed to an oxygen atmosphere, when the oxygen component reacts with the absorbed hydrogen to produce thermal energy. In between these two steps, the metal surface is activated with an atmosphere comprising water. Thermal energy given off during this process is reported to be considerably higher than can be accounted for by chemistry alone.


    The strange thing about the Rayleigh patent, is that I can find no sign that it was commented on or replicated by anyone, in fact it might well have been met with an embarrassed silence....that's LENR for you!



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    Quote from zorud

    WCG always finds excuses and nice interpretations in favor of Rossi, doesn't matter how silly or crazy Rossi's activities are...reminds me on many folks posting on ECW (e.g. LarryJ and others), in their eyes Rossi simply can't be wrong. That is the law...otherwise the world would be in disarray :)

    Hi zorud,


    I, like you, just look at the facts. And give some facts more weight than others. For me this fact analysis point to a certain amount of value in what Rossi does / says. Sure, his methods are sometimes onorthodox, but i guess he learned his lessons throughout his life.


    What aspects in the "Rossi Saga" matter to me?

    • IH being able to kickstart their LENR efforts during and after Rossi cooperation (Brillioun, Mizuno, patents, etc.);
    • IH not being able to legally label him as a fraud;
    • IH (still) going to great lengths in discrediting Rossi (Uzi, APCO, sock-puppets, etc.);
    • The buying back / reimbursement for licenses;
    • No team members that leave and discredit Rossi;
    • No (to me at least) obvious financial scam or other gains for Rossi;
    • Etc.


    There might be a level of "fake it until you make it" involved in what Rossi does, but i do not know a lot of people that spend 10+ years of their life working on something with his kind of determination.


    Cheers,


    JB

    Please see inserted below...

    • IH being able to kickstart their LENR efforts during and after Rossi cooperation (Brillioun, Mizuno, patents, etc.);

    IH was started before their association with Rossi. You are simply wrong about this. Also, IH has no connection with Brillioun... please show your facts.

    Your concept here about IH is simply clouded by your view and acceptance of what Rossi has spewed.


    • IH not being able to legally label him as a fraud.

    Again, you are completely incorrect here. IH did NOT start the lawsuit. They were NOT filing a lawsuit to show Rossi a fraud. Rossi started the lawsuit and then walked away right before experts were ready to take the stand. IH new that the 10 million would not be reclaimed from Rossi as he put his fraudulently obtained 10 million into Condos (not LENR research!), So again, you are not seeing clearly. IH never started the lawsuit, but they sure stopped it. There was no need to continue paying large legal fees to "discredit or prove a fraud" of Rossi, as he had already did that via his depositions. Care to talk about fake customer, fake invoices, fake engineer, fake production, fake everything? How about him dropping his 1MW plant immediately to never talk about it again? A plant he stated had a COP over 80 and that ran for a year... HE stated (by the lawsuit) that it was worth 89 million MORE dollars. REALLY?


    • IH (still) going to great lengths in discrediting Rossi (Uzi, APCO, sock-puppets, etc.);

    Great lengths? Rossi does this by himself! Please show ANY facts that APCO is discrediting Rossi. Seriously, any facts at all.

    Please show any sock-puppets. List any names please. Rossi on the other hand has many socket puppets on his JONP.

    Rossi needs NO assistance in discrediting himself.... he does a fine job by himself.


    • No team members that leave and discredit Rossi;

    Uh... cannot prove a negative! Who are the members? Well, there were none other than Fabiovini (sp), Penon and Bass. Bass was a fake engineer who clearly is not with Rossi any more as far as we know. Fabiovin(sp) is a long time family friend and part of the charade. There have been several "associations" such as Clark, mysterious aero-engineers, etc. who have never supported Rossi after their dealings with him. (If they even existed) Even his latest, aspiring student Gulstrom, seems to have abandoned ship. Only Lewan remains loyal and he is kept at arms length.


    $10 million is not a gain for you? You must be very rich indeed!


    So how about you answering:


    Rossi has stated since 2011 that he has sold at least 11 eCats to various customers. Is this true or a lie?


    If true, did he simply abandon these customers? Is he still supporting them? Via who and how? NONE have came forward.


    Rossi has announced partnerships with various industrial companies. ALL are no longer in play IF they ever were! No announcements from them were made.

    Such as Seimens, ABB, NI and a couple of others. Zilch.


    But one of the biggest and blatent clues is his repetitive lies. He is in a stuck loop. Makes announcements, demos, demos are bad, has customers, none ever come to fruitiion, makes claims such as SSM, electricity production, Sigma, etc. etc. then starts the entire loop over again. All without one piece of evidence that anything is real.


    So you may say you look at the facts, but what you listed simply is not correct. If you take Rossi's word as fact, then you can believe almost anything. But when you look at facts outside "Rossi says", you have zero, zilch, nothing. Especially damning is Rossi's own depositions during the trial and his own 8 years of lying since 2011!

    Quote from Cydonia

    Probably first time i'm lost here because I didn't think I had ocean of skills required.

    However Storms suggested here recently that Rossi's earlier ecat should run by a water shift reaction around CO + CO2 + H2O.

    Maybe he added both lithium to increase XH ?

    As explanation i suggest this process is close to Groszek's paper shared by Alan Smith.

    Here i shared some pictures for your understanding :


    Cydonia,

    I sometimes wonder how there could be such a wide gap in understanding the Rossi drama between certain people.

    You are clearly intelligent, educated and very capable of understanding complicated subjects.


    So am I. So are others. Yet we have this impasse here that you, Alan Smith and a very few others seem to think Rossi had a working reactor.

    Some think that he is a liar and cheat and never had anything that worked.

    Some think a combination... that he originally had a working reactor, but he is a liar and cheat and for some reason abandoned it.


    I find this extremely interesting how there can be such a difference in views from smart, intelligent people. I have come to the conclusion,

    that the base reason is that some people have looked very deep into the Rossi drama while others only gathered second hand data or did not take the time to look closely to the mountains of facts available. Some second hand "data", coming from a respected voice, seemingly must be true! Or is it that they too are fooled or have not looked closely?


    First on the premise that Rossi had a working reactor....

    There are NO verifiable tests that EVER showed Rossi had a working reactor. He INTENTIONALLY kept any kind of outside action that would confirm his data.

    Later "demos", got worse and culminated in the ridiculous! His tests either had known serious faults, or if Jed is correct, one demo had no glaring errors, but now that we know Rossi's mode of operendi, it is apparent that this demo was not to be trusted either.


    I and others have closely followed the Rossi drama. We have seen zero, confirmed or believable facts that Rossi had anything. There are mountains of proved fact that he lies, frauds and deceives. And has done so his entire career.


    Rossi was convicted via the PetroDragon scam. He was convicted of money laundering via gold exchange. He ran a very suspect deal with the military that ended with his "lab burning down" and then he ran away immediately afterwards, never resuming the project. When you look at all the known facts...

    "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck.... it IS a duck! " Rossi's entire LENR story looks like scam, sounds like a scam and walks like a scam. It was proven a scam during the court depositions.


    So why do people still cling that Rossi had "something"? Because they want it to be true very badly! Several of us have asked repetitively, what facts does one have that Rossi had a working reactor. All that is ever given is "he worked with Focardi", or person "X" thinks Rossi was real, or most importantly.... "his NI / H story is close to my own research and so that lends credence to his work'. Sorry, but it does not.


    Some even defend Rossi because his "enemy" was a capital investment firm. The enemy of my enemy is my friend! That is indeed sad. It is without scientific merit.


    Rossi is a very black eye to the LENR field. The faster he is disassociated with, the better. If a legitimate researcher defends Rossi, his own credibility is greatly damaged. It is no wonder why mainstream does not take many LENR researchers seriously. Would I go to an investment counselor that stated he admired and thought Bernie Madoff's dealings were significant and to be considered valid? Certainly not. This is no different.


    You have posted some calculations that are indeed mathematically and physic's based correct. However, they have little to no correlation to Rossi because it is almost certain that Rossi has lied about everything he has demo'ed and that he cannot be trusted! Just because "Rossi says" he used nickel and hydrogen, probably obtained from his association with Focardi's work, does not mean he ever used anything. Rossi himself once reported elemental transmutation. Some people jumped on that as hard evidence and used it to support their own theories. The problem..... Rossi himself admitted that it was completely faked.


    So again, if any out there, such as yourself, Alan S, Wyttenback, etc. have any hard factual evidence that Rossi had a working reactor... great! Can you share it?

    Otherwise, supporting him is absolutely certain to be a dead albatross hanging around your neck as far as credibility goes! Judging Rossi as legitimate casts a great shadow on one's ability to judge other LENR events without bias.


    Wanting something to be true does not make it so. Rossi's own actions speak for themselves!



    This is the state of arts to participate in a proper discussion.



    Let's see, if WCG will respond in a similar "proper" way, which I really doubt.

    Quote from sam12

    Bob


    Can you say with 100 percent

    certainty that Rossi does not

    have technology he says he has?


    Sam12,


    Can I say with 100% certainty that I will not win the lottery? No.

    What are odds that I will win with one ticket? 1 in 289 million. Should I make firm, life decisions based upon winning the lottery? I do not think so.


    Can I say with 100% certainty that there are not extraterrestrial UFO's? No.

    Should I latch on and state that I am a UFO believer? No. The evidence that there is, dramatically points to no, there is not. I.E. Why do aliens always make contact with hillbilly's wearing torn t-shirts? !) ^^


    Can I say with 100% certainty that Rossi is a liar and fraud? Absolutely. His own under oath testimony states that he lied, deceived and cheated.


    Can I say his demo's are shoddy, poor quality and very suspect to being meaningless? Absolutely. His demos all have shown serious breaches of merit and some have been out and out ridiculous.


    Can I say Rossi has not shown confirmation from any reliable source? Absolutely! There is no evidence confirmed by dependable parties that Rossi has a working reactor, customers (other than himself) or any of his claims.


    So lets say that I can say with 99.999% certainty that Rossi does NOT have what he states he has, based upon sworn depositions, 11 years of his own lying, 11 years of his own demos and 11 years lack of any supporting customer evidence.


    Is that 99.99% good enough for you? Absolutes in this world are rare. Yet we should be able to make clear and GOOD decisions based upon 99.999% certainty!


    What about you?


    P.S. You still have not replied why you think Rossi has working reactors. I am truly interested in understanding your thoughts. Are you stating that because you cannot be 100% sure he does not have working reactors, that you will base your actions that he does? I can claim to be clairvoyant! Can you prove 100% that I am not? Will you support this claim? Yet you really have more damning evidence against Rossi than you do against me not being clairvoyant.


    My clairvoyant powers tell me that you will respond by giving Rossi more time and will remain positive towards him in the future! This public demonstration, I will have proved my clairvoyance works and is real! It made a prediction that will be proven correct. :) Does this make it true? :/


    In seriousness, thank you. The above is partially humor! I appreciate your polite manners and do not mean to belittle, but show like comparisons.

    I really do want to know why you remain positive towards Rossi. Is it because you cannot 100% disprove him, you will believe in him?

    Hi Bob#2,


    "IH was started before their association with Rossi. You are simply wrong about this. Also, IH has no connection with Brillioun... please show your facts.

    Your concept here about IH is simply clouded by your view and acceptance of what Rossi has spewed."


    Indeed, but before Rossi came on-board nothing happened at IH. Rossi convinced them LENR was interesting. Read this court document (fact) and judge for yourself what connections may or may not exist between IH and Brillioun;


    http://www.sifferkoll.se/siffe…/03/214-23-Exhibit-23.pdf


    "Again, you are completely incorrect here. IH did NOT start the lawsuit. They were NOT filing a lawsuit to show Rossi a fraud. Rossi started the lawsuit and then walked away right before experts were ready to take the stand. IH new that the 10 million would not be reclaimed from Rossi as he put his fraudulently obtained 10 million into Condos (not LENR research!), So again, you are not seeing clearly. IH never started the lawsuit, but they sure stopped it. There was no need to continue paying large legal fees to "discredit or prove a fraud" of Rossi, as he had already did that via his depositions. Care to talk about fake customer, fake invoices, fake engineer, fake production, fake everything? How about him dropping his 1MW plant immediately to never talk about it again? A plant he stated had a COP over 80 and that ran for a year... HE stated (by the lawsuit) that it was worth 89 million MORE dollars. REALLY?"


    Dewey Weaver stated, literally hours before the settlement, that they would once and for all shut Rossi down. All the so-called experts were adamant; Rossi dug his own grave. The opposite happened (fact). Rossi defended his 10 mio and got (some of the) things back that IH owned him. The chatter of legal costs, difficulties to convince the jury, etc. were all spin.


    "Great lengths? Rossi does this by himself! Please show ANY facts that APCO is discrediting Rossi. Seriously, any facts at all.

    Please show any sock-puppets. List any names please. Rossi on the other hand has many socket puppets on his JONP.

    Rossi needs NO assistance in discrediting himself.... he does a fine job by himself."


    The mail with APCO as a recipient is proof enough. They were involved. Do you think they spin in plain sight? It is their profession to operate under the radar. And in regards to sock-puppets; Hinting at posters on this beautiful forum being sock-puppets will get you banned. Perhaps you should ask some of the moderators if they felt IH operatives were busy spinning things while IH needed some support.


    "Uh... cannot prove a negative! Who are the members? Well, there were none other than Fabiovini (sp), Penon and Bass. Bass was a fake engineer who clearly is not with Rossi any more as far as we know. Fabiovin(sp) is a long time family friend and part of the charade. There have been several "associations" such as Clark, mysterious aero-engineers, etc. who have never supported Rossi after their dealings with him. (If they even existed) Even his latest, aspiring student Gulstrom, seems to have abandoned ship. Only Lewan remains loyal and he is kept at arms length."


    Ask the Swedes if somebody is willing to discredit him. I did (fact) and i find it hard to get anything negative back. Carl-Oscar gone? I dare you, dear Sir using your own logic. Prove it.


    "$10 million is not a gain for you? You must be very rich indeed!"


    Rossi had a business deal with IH. As was stated he received 10 mio upfront. No scam. This was agreed. What is more important is that, in hindsight, i am sure Rossi rather would have avoided the leeches of IH. They almost sucked the life out of him, while empowering his competition. You want to know what a conmen look like? Check-out some of IH lauded investors and perhaps you find a few.


    Cheers,


    JB




    See inserted...


    Quote

    Ask the Swedes if somebody is willing to discredit him. I did (fact) and i find it hard to get anything negative back. Carl-Oscar gone? I dare you, dear Sir using your own logic. Prove it.

    Ask the “Swedes” about their opinion on anything about Rossi or any ecat they tested and silence is the answer. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Just nothing.

    Bob#2

    thanks for your interest,

    What i think about Rossi isn't in relation with things i read or heard anymore.

    I just studied deeply his devices to probably understand more than others.

    About Doral, i think he have really reached 1MW at the beginning unfortunately about hysteresis problems these 1 MW fell quicky.

    He was trapped between people who had to pay him (IH) and those to whom he owed (mafia ?).

    This is the business world that few understand here, the most difficult remains to find a way to finance itself.

    About petroldragon one day we win another one we lose the border remains thin, we don't understand that, with a too Cartesian mind.

    Besides being Cartesian and doing business are two different qualities that are often incompatible.

    To me, the question I ask myself is why smart people like you can be interested in all AR scabrous details about his various businesses ?

    I think it's about phantasy, a policeman is always fascinated by his opposite the thief, because he doesn't understand how it works and may just like to try once.




    Remember that Rossi billed the 31st January as a product launch, not a demo, or preview but a product launch. My reaction at the time was..


    "I had such high hopes but this is simply the worst product launch video I've ever seen.


    And then..


    "Apart from the extremely amateur presentation... One moment he seems to assume everyone knows what he was talking about, the next they are going into unnecessary details such as the value of a resistor in the control box. Then all of a sudden he starts talking about radiation! He hadn't even explained how it worked at that point. Come to think of it I don't think he explains how it works anywhere in the presentation. To cap it all YouTube served me an advertisement for Worcester Bosch heating boilers before it started:-) "

    Quote

    Ask the “Swedes” about their opinion on anything about Rossi or any ecat they tested and silence is the answer. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Just nothing.

    I suspect that is because they do not want to be pestered by a Rossi lawsuit. I would guess that they are also embarrassed by the ease with which they were bamboozled and flummoxed. Their work was so negligent in terms of avoiding sleight of hand and other cheating methods, that I am sure they do not want to answer questions about it!

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