Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

    Quote from bang99

    He (sam12) says clear that he believe! (in the E-Cat and what Rossi says)

    We can't discuss believe here, or will we? :)


    Someone here earlier wanted to distinguish between belief and faith, saying something to the effect that belief is more evidence based, while faith not so much. To me there is evidence that Rossi has something quite good. Now, it may not be as good as he makes it out to be, but it is good enough to motivate him to work on improvements, like a man inspired. At least that's the impression I get. He seems too intelligent and philosophically grounded to be deluded. My hunch is that Rossi is an experimental, intuitive genius, yet on others levels, like calculations and physics, I think he struggles.


    I also believe that Rossi was a competitive endurance athlete as a young man. I believe he worked on that because he truly had something, a natural ability, which drove him further. Similarly I believe Rossi has something with the E-cat, based on the effort he has exerted around it. He has seen enough positive result to inspire him further in his invention. But he is also fiercely protective and will resort to deception (so it seems) in order to continue his work.


    With age I've become more skeptical, even cynical, of certain things. I marvel at certain people here who seem proud of their skepticism, particularly of Rossi, yet who nonetheless swallow certain propagandized, mainstream ideas so easily, despite contrary evidence that exists on closer examination of the facts. Very curious.


    People like myself have a soft spot for the hardworking, freethinking individual who struggles against the current. If I recall correctly, President Eisenhower in his farewell address lamented that the days of the inventor tinkering in his garage were almost over and were being superseded by big money corporatists and bureaucrats of dubious motivation who through the power of funding control the stream of scientific inquiry and progress.


    Even if Rossi turns out to be a con artist (which is possible, but which I currently doubt), picking on him is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. So don't be so full of yourselves. Thank you. Cheers.

    Quote from Mark U

    People like myself have a soft spot for the hardworking, freethinking individual who struggles against the current. If I recall correctly, President Eisenhower in his farewell address lamented that the days of the inventor tinkering in his garage were almost over and were being superseded by big money corporatists and bureaucrats of dubious motivation who through the power of funding control the stream of scientific inquiry and progress.


    Mark U,


    You seem to view Rossi in the positive light of "hard working", "struggling" and persecuted / over trodden by "big business". While these traits can be honorable, they are not in themselves positive. Hitler "struggled" early on. Charles Manson "struggled" for most of his life. Any number of communist dictators where "persecuted" by big capitalistic corporations (or so they say, but unlikely true... just like Rossi has not be persecuted nor held back. IH gave him 10 MILLION dollars on a contract that ROSSI had major say in drawing up). However, that did not make any of these people moral, honest or the better for humanity.


    Rossi has a long and verified history of cons, lies, deceit and fraud. He has spent time in jail for money laundering and has never brought any of his announcements concerning the eCat to fruition. Note what I am saying here.... not ONE of his many announcements have been revealed true or real. Customers, factories, certifications... even his demos have been laughable.


    So similar to the question asked of Sam12, why do you choose to ignore the proven, extremely negative past of Rossi to hang on to a hope that he is telling the truth?

    He continues to lie on his own blog to you! After 11 years of posting lies, you still think he tells the truth?


    Or do you, as some here on this forum, simply state the enemy of my enemy is my friend. IH is a venture capital firm and thus inherently evil. Regardless if Rossi is a liar and fraud, his enemy is seen to be IH and that is more to the core and forgives Rossi of any wrong doing he commits! You seem to hint at this with the "big money corporations" meme. As some others here on this forum, there is shade often cast on IH yet not ONE word of criticism to Rossi. This shows their bias that although IH funds LENR research, that those funded seem quite pleased with their partnership and that there is no factual misdeeds of IH, they are to be reviled and Rossi supported!


    In Amercia, there was a similar phenomena (somewhat still to this day). Jesse James in the 1800's had become a folk hero. A modern day Robin Hood. The story went he stole from the "Evil Railroad" and gave money to the poor. In ABSOLUTE reality, Jesse James was a murderer. He stole from banks that had money from the very poor he allegedly helped! He did rob trains, but not with any noble purpose. He never gave money to the poor. He was a Confederate racist that believed in slavery. He was of a such character that one of his own gang wound up killing him to collect the reward for his capture! This speaks of him and the company he kept.


    Yet some people held Jesse James up as a hero because he robbed the "Evil Railroad".... the capital venture firm of the day. This seems to be very much the same with Rossi. It does not matter what dishonesty he does.... he took money from "evil IH capital firm" so that makes him by default, a hard working, well intentioned, and worthy of support inventor. If not actual spoken support, the absence of calling him out for what he is support, which is the same result. If you call Rossi out, you by default give some credence to IH and that is not acceptable? Is Rossi a modern Jesse James?


    I can only shake my head in disbelief. :(


    So I honestly ask of you...how to you justify to yourself the ignoring of the mountain of proven evidence of Rossi's misdeeds against no evidence that he really is telling the truth and that your support of him regardless of the proven lies, fraud and misdeeds is justified by the hope that he has a working eCat?


    This is an honest question as I seek to understand the thought process.


    Thank you.

    Quote

    No more religious posts please. Or to be more specific, no religion, no politics, and no GW.

    I'm probably just blanking out from a wonderful excess of rum during the holiday but WTF is "GW"?


    Quote

    Even if Rossi turns out to be a con artist (which is possible, but which I currently doubt)

    whoa-nellie.jpg

    Stop right there! Do you even know what a con artist is and how they work? I suggest you study that a bit. Rossi isn't simply a con artist. He is the most obvious, poster boy, hallmark example of one. He has been churning out lies and crimes his entire life and you be will hard put to point out a single achievement other than what he claims in his idiotic web sites and blogs, all filled with contradictions and lies. I won't go through the whole sickly catalog of Rossifiction, Rossilies, and Rossicrap again. Please try to educate yourself before you say things as foolish as doubting that Rossi is a liar, a criminal and a totally classic con artist.

    1. Max September 2, 2019 at 8:11 AM

      Dr Rossi:

      Why don’t you answer to the idiots that write nonsense comments against you in what you have dubbed “the house organ forum”?

      Max

    2. Andrea Rossi September 2, 2019 at 8:24 AM

      Max:

      I do !

      Now and again I get some fun answering by a nickname to the trolls that they are damn right ! And to give evidence of the fact that they are right, I write tremendous stupidities, to see what they answer and if they understand my comment is a joke, but…they always bite it ! They always answer to my comment that I am right and Rossi is a moron or something. It’s very funny, our Team made a lot of laughters and also it is a paradigmatic example of their poor scientific background ( if any ).

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    „I do !

    Now and again I get some fun answering by a nickname to the trolls that they are damn right ! And to give evidence of the fact that they are right, I write tremendous stupidities, to see what they answer and if they understand my comment is a joke, but…they always bite it ! They always answer to my comment that I am right and Rossi is a moron or something. It’s very funny, our Team made a lot of laughters and also it is a paradigmatic example of their poor scientific background ( if any ).“


    It is quite obvious that even that is a lie... :D I have never read anywhere such Rossi stupidities...

    Hello Bob#2,


    Long story short, I disagree with your one sided, extremely negative portrayal of Rossi. That you deem an alternative energy inventor in some way comparable to Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson and Jesse James says *something*, at least.


    I don't ignore 'mountains' of evidence. I do consider them. I consider alternative narratives, alternative contexts to the 'evidence'. Balance and context. I apply the same principles to large corporations and smaller companies such as IH. No rush to judgement from me. I have not heard enough about IH to consider people in that company evil at all. They may be in part predatory. They may be in part wanting to truly help the world. I don't know. But I know that some more sizeable organizations will have a clique of bad apples who protect themselves while doing misdeeds that profit themselves at the expense of the public good. Perhaps Rossi is a lone bad apple who has at times sometimes associated with some good apples, to make himself look better, while knowing all along he doesn't have anything? Yes I consider that a possibility, and have so for a long time. But I am nowhere near the threshold of believing that. Perhaps now the Ballerina has me mesmerized and under its spell. Ask me in another three years. For now, I rather admire the man.


    I hope I have given you some insight into the thought process, or perhaps the lack of it. Thank you.

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    I'm probably just blanking out from a wonderful excess of rum during the holiday but WTF is "GW"?


    whoa-nellie.jpg

    Stop right there! Do you even know what a con artist is and how they work? I suggest you study that a bit. Rossi isn't simply a con artist. He is the most obvious, poster boy, hallmark example of one. He has been churning out lies and crimes his entire life and you be will hard put to point out a single achievement other than what he claims in his idiotic web sites and blogs, all filled with contradictions and lies. I won't go through the whole sickly catalog of Rossifiction, Rossilies, and Rossicrap again. Please try to educate yourself before you say things as foolish as doubting that Rossi is a liar, a criminal and a totally classic con artist.


    GW probably refers to either General Wellativity or Global Warming.


    Hey, I get you about the con thing. I've watched movies. I know about Bernie Madoff. Etc. Please note that I don't put this out of the realm of possibility. I'd give ten percent odds of Rossi being a con and having nothing, ten percent odds of him having all that he says, and eighty percent odds that he has something in between. Ask me again in three years.


    randombit0

    • Member since Apr 27th 2016
    • Last Activity: Sep 8th 2017

    It's long ago, Il Dottore or someone of his clan was here :)


    And BTW:

    Here are a lot of experts in Rossi speak and behaviour.

    "Real Rossi" postings would be identified very quickly.


    And if someone really believes, that he is posting "Anti-Rossi" messages here and is proud of it, that it get's positive feedback,

    should make a reality check or is not a long term member in LF and not an expert in Rossi affairs :)


    So, it's just another lie constructed by Rossi and posted on the "Journal of Non-Nukular Physics".

    Quote from Mark U


    [... ]

    I'd give ten percent odds of Rossi being a con and having nothing,

    ten percent odds of him having all that he says,

    and eighty percent odds that he has something in between.

    Ask me again in three years.


    Mark U Member
    Member since Oct 26th 2018

    Some of us are already through with that :)

    To speak for myself:

    In 2009 50:50

    In 2011 20:80

    In 2019 0:100

    No need for three more years.


    You know Rossi's mantra?

    "In mercado veritas" or something like that. And money for the children with cancer. And industrial certification. Fab's with ROBOTS!

    He is proving everyday, that he does not have the technology that he AND HIS TEAM :) is so proud of.

    No customer! IMHO a very important thing, when you say "In mercado veritas".


    He is the "Con-Do Man".

    And a sockpuppeteer.

    How poor is that?

    Quote

    I'd give ten percent odds of Rossi being a con and having nothing,

    If you knew anything at all about cons, you'd realize that by now, the probability that Rossi is one is approaching 100%. I suppose he could be insane but there isn't anything to strongly suggested. There is not one pico-piece of evidence to suggest Rossi's stuff ever worked, not one yocto-percent of probability (yocto=10-24).


    Just out of curiosity, Mark U, how long have you been following Rossi's misnamed grossly idiotic blog? Did you read the depositions in the legal case of Rossi vs IH which expose his dozens if not hundreds of blatant lies and cheats? And what has Rossi ever been proven to have accomplished in the way of worthwhile work or notable peer reviewed papers in his entire life? The whole of his life?


    I would not be surprised if you're a sock puppet for the slob. Or maybe for Torkel (sp?) in Scandinavia somewhere obscure.


    Thank you for your response. While I do not understand it, at least you are open about it. I am not trying to change your mind simply for the sake of changing it. I do think Rossi is damaging the LENR field tremendously and continued support of him does disservice to a potentially world changing technology.


    I would suggest you read the Doral court documents if you have not. This is a large task, but one that absolutely proves Rossi is a liar and fraudster. Under oath depositions of his OWN words prove he lied (about customer, production, who took the readings, etc. etc.), that he defrauded (fake invoices, fake certifications, faked test results to licensees, etc. etc.) and that he deceived his own fan base about new customers, factories, etc. on his blog while the trial was going on.


    Then if you think the blue light demo was mesmerizing, you evidently have little scientific training or knowledge. It was a total sham. There truly was nothing shown that was of any value at all. Nothing was verified or even presented as calculating out to any believable equations. Even most of his ardent supporters at ECW were dismayed.


    Many here have followed Rossi since 2011. He has stated he has sold 13 1MW plants during that time. What do you think happened to these "customers" and their plants? He has abandoned the 1MW eCat. He has stated robotized factories for all of his multiple designs and that they were ready for production. The Doral depositions clearly showed he has none.


    He trumpeted theories with Cook and then Gulstrom. He had several aerospace "experts" consult with him. And now he is stating the eCat has nothing to do with CF! A very recent proclamation!


    All to put it bluntly, I do not believe you can provide any data or information concerning Rossi or his eCats that show he has any working technology other than "Rossi says". Nothing. Period. So in light of his many, many proven lies and long history of deceit, you chose to simply take him at his word without any substantiation at all!


    You might consider this a bit further!. :thumbup:

    Hey Bob#2

    That's all fine but you and I may be wasting our words with either a superfan of Rossi's who can't and won't reason or possibly the guy himself is taking some perverted pleasure in representing himself as his own acolytes. He admitted to doing it. But I suppose he could be lying about that too since has been known to lie about just about everything. That must be some sort of silly paradox.

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    sam12 has to be pulling everyone's leg [non-English speakers: it means joking with us]

    Nobody is stupid enough to say something like that. A smart six year old or an ordinary eight year old child, given the facts, would know better.

    I am a simple fellow that might be

    wrong about Rossi because I did not

    look at facts.But I also think you

    might be blinded about Rossi by

    looking to close at the facts.

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    Hey Bob#2

    That's all fine but you and I may be wasting our words with either a superfan of Rossi's who can't and won't reason or possibly the guy himself is taking some perverted pleasure in representing himself as his own acolytes. He admitted to doing it. But I suppose he could be lying about that too since has been known to lie about just about everything. That must be some sort of silly paradox.


    I guess anything is possible, but I doubt it. If Rossi is sock puppeting MarkU, it would be a new talent he is exhibiting. Rossi is pretty easy to detect by his "English as a second language" writings. Some here have even documented much of the very discerning characteristics of his word patterns. Mark U does not display any of these. So Rossi either has learned to mimic the English nuances 1000% better, or he is having someone else write for him or more likely, Mark U is an actual person who simply believes whatever Rossi spouts without any true evidence. We have seen it many, many times.


    Even some educated people on this forum still latch on to Rossi! Simply review their posting and "Like" history. These smart people have one thing in common..... they "support" Rossi, normally either A) subtly, by "Liking" others comments that support Rossi or B) by throwing shade at IH when in connection to Rossi.


    This is a fascinating quandary. You have very involved "pro-lenr" people such as JR, Shane, Para(sp) and others who clearly state Rossi is a fraud. Then you have others such as Allan S., Wyttenbach, Cydonia and a few others who support Rossi, but not enough to out and out say he is the real deal. I personally believe this is mainly because of two factors. The second group seems to have not been interested enough in the Doral trial to read the documents int their entirety, but got their "view" based mainly upon Rossi supporters postings about it, while the first group, actually read the depositions and saw the very clear factual and damning evidence against. The second factor is the second group has also often clearly showed they are against capitalist leanings and IH being a capital venture firm, is against their idealogy and thus must be denigrated. This is simply proven by exmining their "likes" and posts. They are clearly Pro-Rossi and anti-IH by their own actions.


    One should always keep in mind... Rossi critics have and DO provide mountains of FACTUAL data that proves Rossi is a liar, fraudster and deceiver. That his demos have always been found to have been presented under false premises. That his history patterns are 100% consistent with someone who does not have a working technology.


    His supporters, including those on this forum, have never presented factual evidence in favor of Rossi's actions or his technology. They have never presented factual evidence that IH is immoral or doing illegal actions OR that the legitimate researchers working with them are disatisfied.


    I am not saying that one cannot have their own opinions. I am simply stating what is obvious to most.... Some people will support Rossi and diss IH regardless of the facts. It is their right to do so and credence will be judged by the observers.


    If this is not correct, I would be interested in hearing a detailed rebuttal.

    I'm definitely later to the game than you. Maybe I'll be where you are in a few years. Don't know. Frankly I'm surprised that Rossi would have *any* customer as soon as he did, in 2012 or whenever that was. Developing a reliable product, even for field trials with customers, takes time. My feeling is that his product did go out to a select few early customers but failed early. (Not something the inventor or customer would advertise.) That may be why Rossi has been big on his "Sigma 5" terminology and testing a while back during a marketing lull, and now has again approached the market with his SK version.


    Yeah it is poor that he has engaged in sockpuppetry. On the positive side, it seems to show he is in emotionally invested in his energy devices and wants to counter wrong information out there.

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    If you knew anything at all about cons, you'd realize that by now, the probability that Rossi is one is approaching 100%. I suppose he could be insane but there isn't anything to strongly suggested. There is not one pico-piece of evidence to suggest Rossi's stuff ever worked, not one yocto-percent of probability (yocto=10-24).


    Just out of curiosity, Mark U, how long have you been following Rossi's misnamed grossly idiotic blog? Did you read the depositions in the legal case of Rossi vs IH which expose his dozens if not hundreds of blatant lies and cheats? And what has Rossi ever been proven to have accomplished in the way of worthwhile work or notable peer reviewed papers in his entire life? The whole of his life?


    I would not be surprised if you're a sock puppet for the slob. Or maybe for Torkel (sp?) in Scandinavia somewhere obscure.

    I disagree that there has been zero evidence that Rossi's devices worked. People much closer to the devices that you or I seemed to think there was something there.

    FYI I've only been following Rossi's blog maybe about a year and a half, on and off. I read some of the depositions, but must admit they made my eyes glaze over. I primarily read what Abd U-R Lomax wrote, although not all of it by any means. And yes I did occasionally read Torkel Nyberg's blogs on the Sifferkoll site. I seek a balanced perspective.

    I'm nobody's sock puppet, sorry. I prefer thinking and acting for myself. People like me are out there, just want to let you know.

    Yes I well know that Rossi lied about the Dorval customer. And he lied about the robotized factory it seems. I just don't generalize and conclude he has lied about almost everything else. Does that make me naive? Maybe. But then I believe that Rossi is very familiar with the works of Machiavelli, and believe that he does these things out of a detached strategy for ultimate success and not out of the condition of his soul, so to speak.


    Yeah I have to rely on Rossisays. I take what Rossi says with a grain of salt, depending on the topic. But also, the fact of his collaborations with good people means something to me.


    About Rossi saying it has nothing to do with cold fusion, I think I know what he is getting at. The idea about cold fusion is traditionally about a proton finessing the coulomb barrier and entering into another atomic nucleus. It's about nucleon contact. Rossi's new proposal is that (I think) a cluster of electrons outside an atom can remotely act on that atom's nucleus and change it.


    I'm always open to further consideration. Looking forward.

    Quote from Mark U

    I'm definitely later to the game than you. Maybe I'll be where you are in a few years. Don't know. Frankly I'm surprised that Rossi would have *any* customer as soon as he did, in 2012 or whenever that was. Developing a reliable product, even for field trials with customers, takes time. My feeling is that his product did go out to a select few early customers but failed early. (Not something the inventor or customer would advertise.) That may be why Rossi has been big on his "Sigma 5" terminology and testing a while back during a marketing lull, and now has again approached the market with his SK version.


    Yeah it is poor that he has engaged in sockpuppetry. On the positive side, it seems to show he is in emotionally invested in his energy devices and wants to counter wrong information out there.

    Mark,

    thank you for your statement.

    A polite and honest response. I understand your point.

    I have a different opinion about that "wants to counter wrong information", but that's how it is.

    So we can agree, that we disagree :)


    Live long and prosper.

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