Thanks for paying attention to the details, the little things that slip past are many times the clincher or key.
The clincher is that if Rossi was using an AC waveform, like shown in Stockholm, then the DC measurements are probably garbage anyways.
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Good to see you all are having what
seems to be an intelligent
Rossi technology discussion.
But for me it’s back to CV threads.
I understand what’s going on there
better.
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And yet that is exactly it.
Practiced in Doral with the whiteboard, published in two Gullstrom-with-a-hint-of-Rossi papers, signed off by Hurley, and placidly ignored by dozens of scientists in Stockholm.Surely there is more to it than that. Could you provide a link if you have one handy, thanks. If not I'll look for it myself.
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Surely there is more to it than that. Could you provide a link if you have one handy, thanks. If not I'll look for it myself.
Here is where the whiteboard part came from. It is a bit blurry, but you should be able to make out the power equation using the resistor values.
Rossi Describing the Quark on a Whiteboard
The two Gullstrom-Rossi papers on arXiv have some Rossi equations tossed in.
“DATA REPORT OF THE MEASUREMENTS MADE ON NOVEMBER 24TH 2017 ON THE E-CAT QUARKX TESTED AT THE IVA, GREV TUREGATAN 16, STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN.
Duration of the measurement period: 1 hour: the measurement has been made after the apparatus has reached a reasonably constant temperature
amount of water pumped through the reactor: 1 000 g
Water temperature at the input of the reactor: 21 C
Water temperature at the output of the reactor: 41 C
Delta T: 20 C
Energy produced: 20 x 1.14 = 22.8 Wh/h
Measurement of the energy consumed ( during the hour for 30′ no energy has been supplied to the E-Cat) :
V: 0.3
OHM: 1
A: 0.3
Wh/h 0.09/2= 0.045 EDIT: here we have the 1 ohm V and I, 0.3 x 0.3 = 0.09 W
Ratio between Energy Produced and energy consumed: 22.8/0.045 = 506.66
Instrumentation used for the measurements:
Oscilloscope Tektronix TBS 1052B
K probes Omega supplied and calibrated by Prof. Bo Hoistad of the University of Uppsala
Water pump Prominent. The water pumped for 1 hour has been poured in a plastic container seat on a scale to measure exactly the water passed through the E-Cat.
Temperature Data Logger: PICO Technology
The scale to weight the water passed through the E-Cat has been supplied by Eng. Mats Lewan of Stockolm
William S. Hurley
Senior Engineer- Endeavor
Los Angeles”
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Well I couldn't make out the whiteboard with any confidence.
But yeah, from the arXiv papers it does look like the "energy consumed" by the QuarkX is calculated by the energy consumed by ... the resistor!
Assuming this is so, why would this be? I can think of two things:
1) The resistance across the QuarkX itself, and hence the voltage drop across the QuarkX itself, and hence the energy consumed by the QuarkX itself, is just about zero.
2) There is no voltage drop across the QuarkX ; there is instead a voltage increase. In other words the QuarkX, in addition to making heat, was making some electricity as well.
If option 2 is correct, the discovery of this was kept rather hushed, but it would have formed the nexus from which would spring the development (and soon demonstration) of the Ecat SKL, where purportedly about 70 percent of the output energy is electricity. Goosebumps?
PS All this is ignoring the so-called Control Box, which apparently consumed lots of power. If I recall correctly the control box is quite small now and presumably uses much less power.
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So you're saying that Rossi is taking the voltage drop across a one ohm resistor, and pretending that's the voltage drop across the entire circuit.
Sorry, that's something (even) I find very hard to believe!
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that in Stockholm, Rossi was videotaped flipping a switch under the box right before the 1 ohm resistor test, nullifying the whole test anyway. Yet we still must believe him because we hope for his scam tech to work.
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What everyone seems to be forgetting is that in Stockholm, Rossi was videotaped flipping a switch under the box right before the 1 ohm resistor test, nullifying the whole test anyway. Yet we still must believe him because we hope for his scam tech to work.
Thanks for the reminder. I almost forgot about those few damning moments. Not just Rossi's actions, but others also.
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PS All this is ignoring the so-called Control Box, which apparently consumed lots of power. If I recall correctly the control box is quite small now and presumably uses much less power.
As for the new control box, what info are recalling from? Rossi's blog posts? Why are you presuming it uses less power? Why do you think the skl even exists at all? Rossi's blog posts? Do you find them evidence at all? Do you also believe Rossi has been gallivanting along with his team all around italy and europe, all during the wuhan virus pandemic?
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What everyone seems to be forgetting is that in Stockholm, Rossi was videotaped flipping a switch under the box right before the 1 ohm resistor test, nullifying the whole test anyway. Yet we still must believe him because we hope for his scam tech to work.
Frankly I have yet to watch the Stockholm presentation. Also, I was not reading Rossi's blog at that early time to hear any explanation from Rossi. I'll see what I can dig up, time permitting. In the meantime I'll assume there's a perfectly good explanation for 'flipping a switch'.
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I couldn't avoid posting this brilliant comment from JONP:
Dear Andrea,
I think you are informed of the results of the Ecat Sk operating with your customers in the USA.
What is the level of their operational functioning?
If you deem it appropriate, express your satisfaction on a scale from 5 to 10.
LOL, Rossi is not allowed to answer less than 5.
Let's all rate our wives/girlfriends/husbands/boyfriends on a scale from 9 to 10 😀
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As for the new control box, what info are recalling from? Rossi's blog posts? Why are you presuming it uses less power? Why do you think the skl even exists at all? Rossi's blog posts? Do you find them evidence at all? Do you also believe Rossi has been gallivanting along with his team all around italy and europe, all during the wuhan virus pandemic?
Yes I recall from Rossi's blog perhaps some months ago, that the control box is much smaller. And yes I believe Rossi is in Europe, as he says. Don't know what county, or if his team is with him. His lab is adjacent to his residence apparently, so he isn't travelling right now. Of course the Ecat SLK exists and is being tested now by a third party, and will be demoed in the near future as the CoVid-19 restrictions permit.
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What everyone seems to be forgetting is that in Stockholm, Rossi was videotaped flipping a switch under the box right before the 1 ohm resistor test, nullifying the whole test anyway. Yet we still must believe him because we hope for his scam tech to work.
Turning off the HV ignition spark was possibly a very good idea for all the participants.
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Well I couldn't make out the whiteboard with any confidence.
But yeah, from the arXiv papers it does look like the "energy consumed" by the QuarkX is calculated by the energy consumed by ... the resistor!
Assuming this is so, why would this be? I can think of two things:
1) The resistance across the QuarkX itself, and hence the voltage drop across the QuarkX itself, and hence the energy consumed by the QuarkX itself, is just about zero.
2) There is no voltage drop across the QuarkX ; there is instead a voltage increase. In other words the QuarkX, in addition to making heat, was making some electricity as well.
If option 2 is correct, the discovery of this was kept rather hushed, but it would have formed the nexus from which would spring the development (and soon demonstration) of the Ecat SKL, where purportedly about 70 percent of the output energy is electricity. Goosebumps?
PS All this is ignoring the so-called Control Box, which apparently consumed lots of power. If I recall correctly the control box is quite small now and presumably uses much less power.
No goosebumps.
I am hopeful that he will make a really nice
presentationtest this next time. -
Frankly I have yet to watch the Stockholm presentation. Also, I was not reading Rossi's blog at that early time to hear any explanation from Rossi. I'll see what I can dig up, time permitting. In the meantime I'll assume there's a perfectly good explanation for 'flipping a switch'.Andrea Rossi
Andrew
November 26, 2017 at 12:30 PM
Dear Dr Rossi,
You said you opened an air Window to help air circulating, but Fabiani clearly tells you to push a Switch. It’s clear from the audio… Can you clarify?
Andrea Rossi
November 26, 2017 at 1:21 PM
Andrew:
When Fabiani is saying me to turn the switch, he refers to the switch that turns off and on the power. We had to turn off/on the power when we passed from calorimetry to spectrometry, and when we passed from spectrometry to dummy 1 Ohm and when we passed from the dummy with 1 Ohm to the dummy with 800 Ohms. It is obvious that when we had to substitute the components of the circuit we had to turn the power off, make the substitution and, after that, turn the power on again. The switch is in the right side of the control box from my point of view, left side from the point of view of the public. The air window is in my side of the box. The window gives access to the circuitry.
When I opened the air window, obviously, Fabiani said nothing, because in that moment I was not operating with any switch.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
November 26, 2017 at 4:04 PM
Andrew ( second answer
You made me curious and now I had the time to watch with focused attention the part of the video you refer to. Please you too watch with attention the segment between 2h30′ and 2h32′: it is very interesting about your issue. Before I open the air window, that is on the side of the control box in front of me, Fabiani says to me absolutely nothing either before or during the action of opening the air window; after the action is finished and the box has been lowered in normal position, Fabiani says me to turn the switch, and at that point I go to the side of the box at my right, where the switch is, and make the switching action.
Just to be clear and precise.
Warm Regards,
A.R.External Content youtu.beContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy. -
Yes I recall from Rossi's blog perhaps some months ago, that the control box is much smaller. And yes I believe Rossi is in Europe, as he says. Don't know what county, or if his team is with him. His lab is adjacent to his residence apparently, so he isn't travelling right now. Of course the Ecat SLK exists and is being tested now by a third party, and will be demoed in the near future as the CoVid-19 restrictions permit.
Mark, the whole crux of your posts is that you believe everything Rossi says on his blog. Even though he has given zero evidence for any of it, along with his pathetic track record of never having shown a working device that passed any third party validation. Your belief in him seems completetly irrational. I just don't understand how an otherwise intelligent guy can fall for such an obvious cult leading charlatan.
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Physics For Dummies.
Let’s have an election for the leaderof the Rossi skeptics Cult.
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Supposedly is not a measurement.
This image shows what is supposedly ~360 W input.
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Instead it shows the ecat producing over 1 kW, and was totally ignored by the Professors.Don't know when and where this picture was taken.
However the screen layout suggests that the PCE-830 is in 3 phase, 3 wire mode.
Voltage of about 240 Volt suggests that the measurment took place in Europe and thus that the mains frequency should be 50 Hz.
However the PCE-830 shows a frequency of 5.3 Hz !
Normally you set the frequency on the PCE-830 to a fixed mains frequency of 50 Hz (Europe) or 60 Hz (USA).
In that case the the display will show 50 F or 60 F, the F meaning that the frequency is set fixed.
In the picture shown the display shows 5.3 A, the A meaning that the PCE-830 is set to automaticcaly trying to determine the frequency.
And it is failing to do so, probably due to the a non sine current wave form.
It will now use the 5.3 Hz as the base frequency for determining the higher order harmonics and these will be incorrect.
As a result the presented measurement results will also be incorrect.
So if the results presented in the display where ignored, then that was a correct decision.
They have no comment since 10 years.
Incorrect. In the UNSWORN DECLARATON OF GIUSEPPE LEVI in the court documents Levi made a comment about the critique on the Lugano test.
Maybe not detailed answers we all expected, nevertheless it is a comment.
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Andrew
November 26, 2017 at 12:30 PM
Dear Dr Rossi,
You said you opened an air Window to help air circulating, but Fabiani clearly tells you to push a Switch. It’s clear from the audio… Can you clarify?
Andrea Rossi
November 26, 2017 at 1:21 PM
Andrew:
When Fabiani is saying me to turn the switch, he refers to the switch that turns off and on the power. We had to turn off/on the power when we passed from calorimetry to spectrometry, and when we passed from spectrometry to dummy 1 Ohm and when we passed from the dummy with 1 Ohm to the dummy with 800 Ohms. It is obvious that when we had to substitute the components of the circuit we had to turn the power off, make the substitution and, after that, turn the power on again. The switch is in the right side of the control box from my point of view, left side from the point of view of the public. The air window is in my side of the box. The window gives access to the circuitry.
When I opened the air window, obviously, Fabiani said nothing, because in that moment I was not operating with any switch.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
November 26, 2017 at 4:04 PM
Andrew ( second answer
You made me curious and now I had the time to watch with focused attention the part of the video you refer to. Please you too watch with attention the segment between 2h30′ and 2h32′: it is very interesting about your issue. Before I open the air window, that is on the side of the control box in front of me, Fabiani says to me absolutely nothing either before or during the action of opening the air window; after the action is finished and the box has been lowered in normal position, Fabiani says me to turn the switch, and at that point I go to the side of the box at my right, where the switch is, and make the switching action.
Just to be clear and precise.
Warm Regards,
A.R.External Content youtu.beContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.Thank you Sam. I'm curious, how were you able to access those earlier posts from Rossi's blog?
Taking a peak at some of the Stockholm demo I realize now that I did try to watch it at an earlier time but it just seemed too chaotic and I put it off.
I'll try to watch the thing in its entirety, because frankly I still don't get the switch issue. I expect switches to be turned on and off.
Hopefully next time there's a public demo like this, Rossi can be on the sidelines instructing his team or a third party what to do, and explaining it to the audience.
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Mark
I found the comments by doing a search on ECat World blog.
Found this rare ECat World RobertGodes comment also.
Robert E. Godes November 26, 2017
I see that he is using a digital sampling scope and that could very easily be an alias waveform from under sampling https://uploads.disquscdn.com/…dc240ec0b2470fcd35979.jpg . note the large Spike shown in the image attached. in several places I see large spikes going both up and down above ground. I don’t believe this is providing any kind of an accurate measurement. combining this with his fiddling of the control system between resistor changes leaves way too many questions.
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Sam, you seem to realize the Stockholm demo was a sham now! I'm proud of you.
