Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

OMG, I have been spending my Christmas trying to make sense of Rossi mishmash of other peoples work. What a depressing life.

I have a lapsed undergraduate physics background. The people who should really comment are the peer reviewers.

Can you find any peer reviewer here?

Also the people he borrowed the math from should really be heard from.

What does Hanno Essen have to say about it? Is Essen working with Rossi?

The whole Darwin Lagrangian part was lifted from his Essens paper. (see attachment(

Some first quick thoughts (since nobody seems to have commented on the actual content of the "paper" yet).

All this about the SK. What happened to the SKL mostly electricity version?

If the SKL works as good as he said in his results section with a COP of 54, why the He double hockey sticks does he need the SKL?

The SK will win multiple Nobel Prizes if any of this is correct.

Quote from the very beginning:

"The E-Cat technology poses a serious and interesting challenge to the conceptual foundations

of modern physics".

My comment, how can something that has not been shown to work, or even really exist, challenge modern physics?

Section from the end rehashes all the test results are lifted from the bogus Stockholm "Industrialization".

If Rossi is not lying about customers having it, has someone else duplicated his spectral analysis results and energy generation/COPlenr-forum.com/attachment/15464/?

Has this device been given to anyone to replicate his experiment?

I am still going through the doc. Same thing is with the last version. It does not indicate any source of energy, and how this energy could be calculated.

This section hints at it but has a major issue:

"2.5 Entropy of the coherent clusters

Although the formation of charge cluster coherent states is compatible with the condition

of stationary Action 22 , its probability is heavily hindered by the extremely low entropy of

such states. The order of magnitude of the entropy ratio between non-coherent and coherent

congurations is approximately equal to the number N of interacting particles, considering

that the coherent state can be described by a single wave-function, as in BEC condensate.

The Darwin Lagrangian may be used for non coherent states of N interacting electrons

observed at time scales larger than the Zitterbewegung period (tz ' 8:1 10􀀀21s). In this case

the average value of the component of the vector potential orthogonal to electron velocity

vanishes and does not play a role in magnetic interactions, but his hidden in the kinetic

energy term, being the value of its module multiplied for the elementary charge equal to the

electron rest mass in natural units."

OK, paragraph 1 makes sense in that such coherent states should be low entry.

But paragraph 2, WTF? How does this explain that such clusters should form with lower entropy? It doesn't. It is total BS.

Like everything else in this paper, no real explanation of how energy is released "from the vacuum'".

Sam, can you explain paragraph 2 and how that somehow implies these low entropy clusters?

That is my quick take. I'll continue reading.Essen Darwin Lagrangian.PDF

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I would like to hope he's talking about higher entropy, cause that's where you get energy from, a local increase in entropy.

Quote from Bruce__H

I admit that I am still interested in how Mr Rossi has constructed his demonstrations and trials although, at this point, I don't see any scientific value in the discussion. It's just interesting.

I don't know much about the 2013 test so I'll look into it. My presumption is that Mr Rossi's behaviour there will turn out to be the same as elsewhere and that Darden and IH did not, in fact, have full access. However presumptions are meant to be overturned if they are to have value!

We arrived at talk of the Ferrara test after you commented that you don't think that Rossi's claims have been disproved yet. But I think we have now found a couple of instances that do fit into the disproof category.

Explaining without invoking use of magic or invisible pumps the method used by water to flow from the condensers, up hill and into the reservoirs during the October 28, 2011 demo is a good start, because it probably applies equally to the Ferrara Validation as well.

water to vapors seems a natural way to flow.

pumps can be built with no need for magnetism, just use the fuel effects.

just add water inlets.

Doral picture i expect, we can see some workers it seems ?

Quote from Alan Smith

Quote from LeBob

I would like to hope he's talking about higher entropy, cause that's where you get energy from, a local increase in entropy.

If we would like to hope, we can hope!

He is not talking about anything meaningful concerning energy generation. That's the problem.

Quote from Cydonia

Doral picture i expect, we can see some workers it seems ?

Nope, that is in Ferrara, and we can see Darden, Penon, and maybe Dewey(?). Also note Levi in the back, with his ubiquitous red sweater.

Note that the condenser return hoses from the Bologna demo are now steel pipes. But they are probably effectively doing the same uphill water trick as at Bologna, just better disguised.

I well understand all septics around Rossi's case i repeat i only have been focused on his patent not about these parts, ducts.. etc.
Now, i have to say i have been close to the famous Dewey , in the past, very clever guy, both with manipulator and liar. A kind of Trump however less noisy.

He never would have put money in something that would fuck him later, sure..

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Nope, that is in Ferrara, and we can see Darden, Penon, and maybe Dewey(?). Also note Levi in the back, with his ubiquitous red sweater.

Note that the condenser return hoses from the Bologna demo are now steel pipes. But they are probably effectively doing the same uphill water trick as at Bologna, just better disguised.

A proposal of a fake is not the same as proving that fake was used.

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

If we would like to hope, we can hope!

He is not talking about anything meaningful concerning energy generation. That's the problem.

In his updated paper Rossi does convey (although somewhat obliquely) the various ways that the Vacuum might be contributing to energy generation.

Rossi is showing the tenacity and endurance in acquiring knowledge in physics that he showed as a youth running for 24 hours and setting an Italian record. The guy seems to be voracious reader, and not only that, his philosophical mind is able to sort and prioritize the various and difficult concepts he has learned and then, critically, to put them to test in a lab, in devices he himself has conceived and then has the ability to make (except for some components of the controller)! Then of course he has the talent of leading a team and of persuading people of means to financially support his work.

This collection of talents seems highly unusual. My admiration for him grows!

Sounds just like Bernie Madoff to me

This collection of talents seems highly unusual. My admiration for him grows!

I admire Tyler.

His videos can get the basics

through my thick head.

Quote from Mark U

In his updated paper Rossi does convey (although somewhat obliquely) the various ways that the Vacuum might be contributing to energy generation.

Scientific papers should not be "oblique". Philosophy papers, maybe.

I must be dense. I do not see any explanation of energy generation (besides the bogus results at the end). Can you supply the specific sections and sentences you think describe this?

Yes, one time i'm agree with my old friend PhysicsForDummies , Mark U could you share what you expected above about Rossi technology.

As you described how Rossi's running, i have to say to not be more clever than all septic here however as him, i studied, read several thousand papers for 10 years now, it remains the basis before talking..

This is not an hidden criticism to septic because for example only around french Lenr world i well know, whose who first are staying on picture often behind a micro don't read so much.. however are first to explain you the real truth, what have to work, especially what will never work hahhaha aaaah what a bullshit world !

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

Scientific papers should not be "oblique". Philosophy papers, maybe.

I must be dense. I do not see any explanation of energy generation (besides the bogus results at the end). Can you supply the specific sections and sentences you think describe this?

Now people have to do the link between my picture below:

If someone serious has money, a laboratory, I will explain how it works and many other things.

A win-win spirit is also important.

US7379286B2

and

https://colorado.academia.edu/OlgaDmitriyeva

Quote from Alan Fletcher

A proposal of a fake is not the same as proving that fake was used.

Absolutely true. But relevant how?

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

Scientific papers should not be "oblique". Philosophy papers, maybe.

I must be dense. I do not see any explanation of energy generation (besides the bogus results at the end). Can you supply the specific sections and sentences you think describe this?

The ultimate 'explanation' is brief and given near the bottom of page 12, my bold and insertions in square brackets:

"This process [the compression and ordering of the electrons in plasma] is a consequence of a Vacuum polarization caused by the presence of the Scalar field S: This implies the possibility of a long range interaction [which is not really 'long' but about 1/20 the radius of hydrogen] that consists in a mass-energy transfer from positive charged particles to negative ones or vice-versa. This mass-transfer obviously does not violate the principle of energy conservation and apparently does not lead to the instability of the nuclei of the positive ions present in the plasma, even if some authors claims the possibility that Scalar fields may alter the nucleus dynamic [28]. The tiny energy lost by the nuclei [to the electrons] can be replenished by their interaction with the active Vacuum. The hypothesis that a mass-transfer mechanism may be the cause of the anomalous heat seen in the E-Cat QX has been presented in a previous paper [22], inside however a different theoretical framework.

To evaluate the power generated in a device as the E-Cat-QX, assuming that the thermal energy is generated by the electron transition from a coherent to an incoherent state ... we get a power output in the order of several tens of watts. "

So Rossi is briefly explicit that the Vacuum is imparting missing energy to the protons which had given off energy to the electrons via 'long' range interaction (which is actually very short, like 1/20th the hydrogen radius or something) . The electrons are carrying off the excess energy (they got from the protons), which is ultimately harvested as electricity (SKL) or just heat (SK).

What Rossi is not explicit on in is the Vacuum performing work on the electrons by essentially ordering their magnetic fields so they align, resulting in an attractive magnetic force, resulting in a condensed, low entropy, low energy state. Personally that's what I think is also happening, but to me this means that the energy release is during the compression phase (due to conservation of energy) not in the expansion phases (where coherence is being lost) as Rossi puts forward. Anyway.