resulting in a condensed, low entropy, low energy state.
But a loss in energy comes with a gain in entropy. Burn a log for example. Energy is released and the ash is more disordered (higher entropy).
How are these new Rossi states both low energy and low entropy?
But a loss in energy comes with a gain in entropy. Burn a log for example. Energy is released and the ash is more disordered (higher entropy).
How are these new Rossi states both low energy and low entropy?
That example is good, but it depends on the system. For instance we animals are low entropy , and to sustain this state we need to intake energy.
But a snowflake is different. The formation of a low entropy, low energy snowflake releases energy as heat to the environment.
burning log : Energy release from burning log -> higher entropy, lower energy of burned log.
animal : Energy intake to living animal -> low entropy, high energy of living animal.
snowflake : Energy release from forming snowflake -> lower entropy, lower energy of snowflake.
It's enough to make one's head swim.
What I think is happening in the SKL is: the electrons start entraining and condensing due to magnetic allignment, and their energy lowers. But due to conservation of energy, energy has to be released. This takes the form of rebel energetic electrons that escape the larger group of entrained electrons, carrying high quality energy (high energy, relatively low entropy) with it, which is harvested. Rossi alluded to this in one of his blog posts which I may dig up later, but this theme is missing from his updated paper.
this theme is missing from his updated paper.
That is really my point. Rossi explains nothing about energy generation. If Rossi had really explained anything perhaps his admirers wouldn't be going through such great pains trying to explain what they think he meant to explain. Especially on ECW. That site has become so Axilized that many posts seem to have been written by AI pseudoscience gibberish generation software.
This is classic Rossi.
He throws out a few scraps of info and let’s his followers piece together a possible theory.
He has been doing this since January, 2011
with his Ni + H = Cu quagmire, which his followers believed until they assayed the Cu and found it to be in natural %, which it could not be in his experiment.
When caught red handed, he starts his sleight of hand, (hide the heat exchanger), mumbo jumbo and starts anew.
This takes the form of rebel energetic electrons that escape the larger group of entrained electrons, carrying high quality energy (high energy, relatively low entropy) with it, which is harvested. Rossi alluded to this in one of his blog posts which I may dig up later, but this theme is missing from his updated paper.
Andrea Rossi
September 21, 2020 at 6:51 AM
CC:
The Aharonov-Bohm effect makes a rapid, collective, and simultaneous variation of the zitterbewegung phase, catalyzing the creation of coherent systems, therefore causing a transfer of energy to the electrons not in phase.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
That is really my point. Rossi explains nothing about energy generation. If Rossi had really explained anything perhaps his admirers wouldn't be going through such great pains trying to explain what they think he meant to explain. Especially on ECW. That site has become so Axilized that many posts seem to have been written by AI pseudoscience gibberish generation software.
Axilized, good one. Well Rossi has a lot of people thinking and speculating, for sure. I don't think Rossi himself has it nailed down, which is why he is throwing a lot of possibilities at the wall. Even so I prefer his opinion over others because not only has he taken the time to process the published work of many other researchers, but he is informed and grounded by his own personal experience in the lab.
Absolutely true. But relevant how?
Ummm.... might reduce confidence in results which might otherwise be regarded as PROOF.
But does not DIS-PROVE it.
I think Rossi did what he can as explanation because its remain sticked at border from the current science well understood.
We could criticize also the model of Wyttenbach which exists but never proven XSH it seems.
Mills also with his hydrinos.
it seems all these models are common, interesting.
Well, it appears to be a very new way of thinking the atom structure.
To me, i find well that a compressed hydrogen as hydrino for example compressed by a resonance wave behavior plays only to destabilize the nucleus, especially the stick level , gluons i should say.
it should exist a symmetry of behavior between the void between electrons ( which isn't really empty) and gluons.
Consequence electrons resonance are able to lower the "stick" energy of gluons, releasing especially protons but neutrons too. This energy from gluons lowered seems to be the Lenr energy , nucleons escaped only the consequence.
We should have something like this nucleus seen from its side:
That is really my point. Rossi explains nothing about energy generation. If Rossi had really explained anything perhaps his admirers wouldn't be going through such great pains trying to explain what they think he meant to explain. Especially on ECW. That site has become so Axilized that many posts seem to have been written by AI pseudoscience gibberish generation software.
Ummm.... might reduce confidence in results which might otherwise be regarded as PROOF.
But does not DIS-PROVE it.
I don't understand. In the Doral test, If there are days that there is claimed to be 36000L of water circulating through the ecat plant but the pumps said to be driving the circulation are not capable of this amount, then isn't that a disproof of the claim? And in the Krivit video, if 7Kg/hour of water is said to be converted to steam by the ecat but the measured amount of steam is about an order of magnitude less than this, isn't that likewise a disproof? I am not proposing any particular method for fraud, I am just saying that the claims are disproven.
I try to raise the level of this thread but it remains miserably low, as batrachians brain, somewhere there.
I don't understand. In the Doral test, If there are days that there is claimed to be 36000L of water circulating through the ecat plant but the pumps said to be driving the circulation are not capable of this amount, then isn't that a disproof of the claim? And in the Krivit video, if 7Kg/hour of water is said to be converted to steam by the ecat but the measured amount of steam is about an order of magnitude less than this, isn't that likewise a disproof? I am not proposing any particular method for fraud, I am just saying that the claims are disproven.
QuoteI do not see any explanation of energy generation (besides the bogus results at the end).
From article it's evident, that Andrea Rossi doesn't really understand excess of energy allegedly observed during his experiments: he just collects most popular ideas and concepts of his time in AxillAxill style. But he converges to my understanding, that E-Cat SK doesn't really run like cold fusion device - but merely like atomar hydrogen device of Langmuir.
My explanation of overunity is actually quite simple and it consists of intriguing behaviour of spherical orbitals - so called forbidden transitions. Monoatomic gases like atomic hydrogen and/or rare gases have such an orbitals. When such an orbitals get input energy, they will expand into so-called excited state and their electrons struggle to find their way back. But they can not do it easily, because spherical objects cannot radiate EM waves easily like elongated antenna. Instead of it, they must wait for some "kick" from quantum fluctuations of vacuum, which would help to shrink excited orbitals back again, so that the original input energy gets restored.
After then just the kick of vacuum fluctuations represents the surplus of energy, which you'll get for free - so that the whole process can repeat in fast pace and continuous stream of energy gets produced. It's a simple as that - no technobabble and/or complex math is needed for its understanding. Actually it may work so in similar way for another overunity devices, like the cavitation engines and/or magnetic motors. This is because small bubbles are perfectly spherical and they also require a kick for their formation. Why? Because surface tension forces prohibit bubble formation until it remains very small, so that for initial bubble formation a surplus of energy is needed. This surplus of energy can be drawn just from thermal fluctuations of environment under violation of thermodynamics.
At the case of magnetic motors the elements exhibiting forbidden transitions can be even spotted with naked eye. The salts of ferromagnetic elements like iron, manganese and/or neodymium sport with unusually pale pastel colours: these colours just correspond forbidden energy transitions: their electrons "want" to absorb energy - but they can not do it easily, because their orbitals are perfectly round.
The above explanation shares some common points with another theories of overunity within plasma systems.
In particular prof. Randell Mills explains hydrino transitions just by forbidden mechanism. He makes an overshot though: he essentially models all orbitals like less or more deformed spheres, which is just difficult to swallow. Also, once formation of subquantum hydrino state generates an energy by itself, there is actually no need of vacuum energy for its explanation, thus no forbidden transitions are also needed. Actually Mills utilizes forbidden mechanism in opposite way: he says that formation of subquantum state is allowed only through forbidden transition which is why it occurs so rarely in nature, despite it releases plenty of energy (something like the implosion of perfectly round shells). Note that BLP process utilizes high current arc with very low voltage, so that excited orbitals cannot be deformed with external electric field. Whereas Mills thinks it helps hydrino formation, I presume instead it helps utilization of ZPE energy.
Andrea's Rossi article talks about quantum Zitterbewegung instead. Zitterbewegung concept comes from period between world wars, when Germans dominated the development of quantum mechanics. It denotes special mode of quantum fluctuations which lack translation mode: like sorta bubbles emerging from vacuum and popping back again without any motion. Such a regime of vacuum fluctuations would prohibit radiative lost of energy for excited orbitals, so that their roundness isn't violated in any way. It can be enforced by constraining particle motion in space to narrow planes or wires or by strong magnetic/electric fields, but I don't understand how it should apply to plasma of E-Cat SK.
I don't understand. In the Doral test, If there are days that there is claimed to be 36000L of water circulating through the ecat plant but the pumps said to be driving the circulation are not capable of this amount, then isn't that a disproof of the claim? And in the Krivit video, if 7Kg/hour of water is said to be converted to steam by the ecat but the measured amount of steam is about an order of magnitude less than this, isn't that likewise a disproof? I am not proposing any particular method for fraud, I am just saying that the claims are disproven.
As much as I dislike to discuss this issue, the amount of water a diaphragm pump can move Can be completely out of the rated specs if the counter pressure is absent, I have pumps that are rated for 60 liters per hour at 20 psi back pressure but without back pressure they can pump 500 liters per hour.
I try to raise the level of this thread but it remains miserably low, as batrachians brain, somewhere there.
The Rossi thread has always been contentious, but not because of the Bruce H comment you use as an example. He actually made one of the few science based points I have seen.
To be honest, I can not see this conversation ever becoming more civil. Those against Rossi have legitimate grounds for their anger, and his supporters are very protective of his antics. That makes for an explosive mix, and unless Rossi actually produces something credible, I see nothing that will change the situation.
The staff recently debated shutting down the Rossi thread to up the quality of the forum...which has been trending down in quality lately, but decided it's overall contribution is still positive. But it was a close call.
Many times over the years we have cautioned those who decide to post here to have a thick skin. I always say "check your ego at the door", meaning do not take it personal. If unable, then this thread should be avoided.
Could you expect that both the Garai model could have the same answer as you suggested .
His model is talking about H/D vibrations given by IRs heat, inside a gap done by a metal lattice parameter.
It should be in relation with a model you already shared here with balls of several sizes bouncing between them.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jozsef_Garai
Display MoreFrom article it's evident, that Andrea Rossi doesn't really understand excess of energy allegedly observed during his experiments: he just collects most popular ideas and concepts of his time in AxillAxill style. But he converges to my understanding, that E-Cat SK doesn't really run like cold fusion device - but merely like atomar hydrogen device of Langmuir.
My explanation of overunity is actually quite simple and it consists of intriguing behaviour of spherical orbitals - so called forbidden transitions. Monoatomic gases like atomic hydrogen and/or rare gases have such an orbitals. When such an orbitals get input energy, they will expand into so-called excited state and their electrons struggle to find their way back. But they can not do it easily, because spherical objects cannot radiate EM waves easily like elongated antenna. Instead of it, they must wait for some "kick" from quantum fluctuations of vacuum, which would help to shrink excited orbitals back again, so that the original input energy gets restored.
After then just the kick of vacuum fluctuations represents the surplus of energy, which you'll get for free - so that the whole process can repeat in fast pace and continuous stream of energy gets produced. It's a simple as that - no technobabble and/or complex math is needed for its understanding. Actually it may work so in similar way for another overunity devices, like the cavitation engines and/or magnetic motors. This is because small bubbles are perfectly spherical and they also require a kick for their formation. Why? Because surface tension forces prohibit bubble formation until it remains very small, so that for initial bubble formation a surplus of energy is needed. This surplus of energy can be drawn just from thermal fluctuations of environment under violation of thermodynamics.
At the case of magnetic motors the elements exhibiting forbidden transitions can be even spotted with naked eye. The salts of ferromagnetic elements like iron, manganese and/or neodymium sport with unusually pale pastel colours: these colours just correspond forbidden energy transitions: their electrons "want" to absorb energy - but they can not do it easily, because their orbitals are perfectly round.
As much as I dislike to discuss this issue, the amount of water a diaphragm pump can move Can be completely out of the rated specs if the counter pressure is absent, I have pumps that are rated for 60 liters per hour at 20 psi back pressure but without back pressure they can pump 500 liters per hour.
Alan Fletcher actually obtained a Prominent pump of the sort Rossi used and measured output under different backpressure conditions. He was unable to obtain the 83L/hr pumping capacity needed to explain the plant operation claimed by Rossi on many days during the 1 year run at Doral.
Well understood.
Display MoreLe fil Rossi a toujours été controversé, mais pas à cause du commentaire de Bruce H que vous utilisez comme exemple. Il a en fait fait l'un des rares arguments scientifiques que j'ai vus.
Pour être honnête, je ne peux pas voir cette conversation devenir plus civile. Ceux contre Rossi ont des motifs légitimes de colère, et ses partisans sont très protecteurs de ses singeries. Cela fait un mélange explosif, et à moins que Rossi ne produise réellement quelque chose de crédible, je ne vois rien qui changera la situation.
Le personnel a récemment débattu de la fermeture du fil Rossi pour améliorer la qualité du forum ... qui a eu une tendance à la baisse ces derniers temps, mais a décidé que sa contribution globale était toujours positive. Mais c'était un appel serré.
Plusieurs fois au fil des ans, nous avons averti ceux qui décident de publier ici d'avoir une peau épaisse. Je dis toujours "vérifiez votre ego à la porte", ce qui signifie ne le prenez pas personnel. Si impossible, ce fil doit être évité.
There have been some interesting
comments lately.Would be great
if Bob Greenyer would comment here.He is neither for or against
Rossi.
As much as I dislike to discuss this issue, the amount of water a diaphragm pump can move Can be completely out of the rated specs if the counter pressure is absent, I have pumps that are rated for 60 liters per hour at 20 psi back pressure but without back pressure they can pump 500 liters per hour.
Of course there is also the statement of Barry West (the IH employee who was onsite daily during the Doral 1-year test) that the pumps were not actually operated all the time. He says that they would be turned on when one of the four large chambers that housed reactors was thought to be boiling dry.
I don't know where that fits in exactly. I think that it is sort of a disproof too.
Alan Fletcher actually obtained a Prominent pump of the sort Rossi used and measured output under different backpressure conditions. He was unable to obtain the 83L/hr pumping capacity needed to explain the plant operation claimed by Rossi on many days during the 1 year run at Doral.
I really don’t recall the details of those pumps, can you point me to where Alan Fletcher did his analysis? I haven’t read it.
Anyway, I still consider all what Rossi does now is excess hot air by all the unsubstantiated claims and idle chat.
I really don’t recall the details of those pumps, can you point me to where Alan Fletcher did his analysis? I haven’t read it.
Anyway, I still consider all what Rossi does now is excess hot air by all the unsubstantiated claims and idle chat.
The "Prominent Gamma/L 0230 Flow Rate Test" thread.
Link to the first entry ...
Prominent Gamma/L 0232 Flow Rate Test
Link to Alan's 2nd-to-last entry on that thread and serving as a summary of results t that point ...
