Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

1st Official Post

    Notice: this is unfair, cherry-picked funny lines from recent Rossi blog comments. Most comments are Serious Bizness about Quark-X, etc.



    Rossi doesn't comment on his competitors, but he has no competitors. Or does he? Who are the "prostitutes"? That would be those who sell out. To whom? Who is being paid? And Rossi is known to delete comments, which indicates he keeps the ones that say what he wants to be said, and then he can say he isn't commenting....



    That question, like a number I've seen being fed to Ross, misrepresents what is being said by others in the field.



    I think I have never seen any of these comments actually link to the alleged hostile comments. There are such, of course, but there is also simple reporting of what is becoming obvious.



    Maybe it's the phase of the Moon.






    WTF? Captcha for a noob? Very funny. Yes, probably. Administrator joke.




    Yes. We will now see the IH ownership of lenr-forum announced on Peter Gluck's blog as a confirmed fact.



    IH has been providing documents requested by Rossi....



    Which is better, 90% fiction or 100% lies? Rossi recommended Wolfson before in his little diatribe about kwh/h, and I searched Wolfson and found that Wolfson directly contradicted the Rossi claims. (This was covered here on lenr-forum).


    (Rossi generally hates scientists unless the confirm his ideas.)



    When I saw Rossi saying the equivalent of this in 2011, I knew he was not a scientist. He is talking about control experiments.



    This is especially funny because Rossi demanded that IH produce all those documents.



    This is on a Rossi theme, apparently he has the idea that if IH didn't already have $89 million available in 2012, they were being deceptive. Of course they didn't have $89 million. They likely believed (and may have told him) that if they could make devices that worked when they tested them, they could raise that money, and it is almost certain that they could have done this. But if they can't make devices that work, they couldn't raise the money, not without deceiving investors, which is, ah, shall we call it "dangerous"?

    Rossi has always said that the "dummy" concept (blank runs and calibration runs without fuel) is dumb. Of course it is. If done properly, it would show that the ecats don't work.

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    Rossi has always said that the "dummy" concept (blank runs and calibration runs without fuel) is dumb. Of course it is. If done properly, it would show that the ecats don't work.


    As I noted, he said that in 2011. And yes, it could show that, or it could. alternatively, show they work.


    It was obvious by 2011 that Rossi was actively avoiding independent verification. It was an easy and even probable conclusion from this that he was a fraud.


    However, that did not seal the matter, it would only seal it for someone not willing to take risks to discover the truth. Some people will investigate improbabilities, and, in fact, the entire field of cold fusion is based on the willingness of Pons and Fleischmann to look where standard thinking would have said there was nothing to see. They were not naive. They thought they would find nothing, that is, that the effect they predicted (a variation due to an imprecision introduced by certain assumptions used to simplify the estimation of fusion rate) would be too small to detect.


    Because they looked, they found something. It was a long shot, and it paid off, we now think, by a preponderance of scientific evidence. Almost by definition, most of such efforts will "fail." But people who are willing to "fail" like this find what eludes most others.


    Industrial Heat also took a chance. They were not naive. They could see everything the rest of us could see. They certainly read Krivit! What was the result?


    The result was that they now have actual evidence, much deeper, not just inference. They demonstrated commitment sufficient to inspire Woodford to basically donate $50 million. Woodford knows that money may never come back, or if it does come back, it may be after long effort, with more money being necessary.


    I love this "silent majority" thing. It can be used to claim dominance when one is failing miserably. It has often been used by populist politicians, who are not necessarily in the majority, though they might represent positions that are more common than are obvious, mostly because the positions are so obviously stupid that people won't talk about them, but they are still grumbling about how the people who think they are so smart are taking over and it's Unfair! These politicians sometimes win elections for a while.... but humanity moves on, and what is really stupid remains so and falls away. We hope, anyway, or ... the sky will fall, almost literally.


    Ah, well, it was good while it lasted.


    If the silent majority supports Rossi, will they send him $100? After all, if there are 100 million supporters in the U.S., that alone would provide him with $10 billion for his research. Has he thought of crowd funding? A real majority has enormous power, if organized. Ah, but this is a *silent* majority. That means that they won't lift a finger.



    What did this statement have to do with the "litigation on course"? What observations have been "scientifically destroyed"? I thought the function of science was to record and examine observations, not to destroy them.


    And what "puppets"? Running puppets is a colossal nuisance, one has to control them. That's not going to be done unless there is some payoff. Maybe the idea is that if a puppet theater is put together and performs outside the courthouse, that the judge will immediately do whatever IH wants? Does this person imagine that the judge is going to read what is on the internet? (I've actually seen this idea expressed on Planet Rossi. A real judge would carefully stay away from all that. If someone is selected for a jury, should it come to that, they will not know that they are on this particular jury until they are selected, and they will be ordered to stay entirely away from the topic.


    But on Planet Rossi, reality doesn't matter. All that matters is what the Genius says. And his ... what do we call those fake names? (Some may actually be real, to be sure, but the patterns are completely obvious.)


    Puppets, we call them. Sock puppets if they are the same writer, and "meat puppets" -- on wikipedia -- if they are friends who are just doing what was requested.



    Rossi has not answered this one. I suppose that some very unusual high school could have a high percentage of students who have heard of the E-cat, but if this happened, there is certainly a strong believer there chatting it up. I have a girl in high school, and I think she might know about the E-Cat, because, well, my daughter. This is much more likely to be an invented story, from signs.


    I doubt that my daughter has one single friend who has ever heard of it. Hey, I'll ask.


    She just came home. No, she had never heard of Andrea Rossi. No, she had never heard of the E-Cat. (I was actually surprised.) And I told her the story above. Her answer: "That's total bullshit. If it is a normal high school, maybe one person would have heard about this."


    This girl was about nine when I told her a little about cold fusion. I told her that Pons and Fleischmann had found unexplained heat. Then I said that many others had not found it. She immediately piped up,


    "Dad, they didn't try hard enough!"


    Right. Now, don't bogart that joint, man.


    Smoking cannabis is much more common in U.S. High Schools than mention of E-cats. Much more. Maybe Gian Luca is real? Googling ... yes, probably.



    Definitely. Start up that crowdfunding appeal, ASAP. Might even raise money faster than it's being spent on legal fees.



    Rossi first raised this issue way back. Almost everyone -- everywhere -- has dropped it, but someone drops it on JONP. Who might that be?


    Until Rossi filed the lawsuit, most people in the LENR field were willing to postpone judgment, because, after all, Industrial Heat was working with Rossi. A few days before filing the case, IH had issued a press release that was vague and that was interpreted by some that there might be a problem with Rossi, certainly Krivit said so. Rossi dismissed this as snake hiss, everything was fine with IH, when, in fact, it's obvious, he was planning to sue them. As soon as we read the lawsuit, the reasons to postpone judgment on the obvious obvious, from all the history, disappeared. IH had not been able to confirm Rossi's claims. Urk!


    "Paid by IH" is now a "fact" on Planet Rossi. Good luck in court with "facts" like that!



    If every member of a majority gives Rossi some cash, he'll have plenty of money for the roll-out. He could hire a full staff of researchers and engineers, and APCO for publicity. Git 'r done, Andrea!


    This is getting utterly ridiculous!


    Does Rossi think the readers of his blog are complete idiots?

    I would say, Justin Bieber is at least able to deliver, and most of his supporters are not disappointed/played/cheated.


    Rossi is way too far away from saying that from himself.

    Quote from Nigel Appleton

    Why anyone should waste time reading Rossi's "blog" is completely beyond me. It's a mind-numbing morass of meaningless platitudes with the occasional floating turd of a vague promise of greatness yet to come


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatology


    "Scat" is a much nicer word than "turd." "Turd," for example, does not include diarrhea. Or, as some might be wont to claim about me, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logorrhea_(psychology)


    As to who might read the blog, how about IH attorneys? Just yesterday, we saw that an IH a request for production was based on a blog post, I covered this in Rossi v. Darden developments


    Humor is based on contrast and contradiction. Rossi established JONP as his private journal and used it as a blog (which was weird in itself, why not just start an ordinary blog instead of mixing "peer reviewed papers" -- his claim -- with reams of largely unrelated commentary?) He was able to say whatever he wanted for year, and with almost no consequences. Now, the contradiction between Rossi Says and, you know, fact, has reached epic proportions.


    Even dedicated supporters are starting to write WTF? "Does he think we are idiots?"


    Probably, yes.


    It's all a huge practical joke, I'm sure. He's preparing for Rossi, the Movie. He will make millions.

    Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    Quote from Nigel Appleton: “Why anyone should waste time reading Rossi's "blog" is completely beyond me. It's a mind-numbing morass of meaningless platitudes with the occasional floating turd of a vague promise of greatness yet to come”
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatology" class="externalURL" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a>…


    Thanks for your input, but I choose my metaphors carefully; and without regard to "niceness"


    "Turd" is a good honest word of great antiquity, "Scat" a mere abbreviation of low parentage

    I do not stop by E-Cat World often, but did so this morning. I was somewhat surprised to see that most of the recent posts had far fewer comments than
    I remember most having. In the "20 something range" where as before, many would be 100 plus.


    Is the readership there starting to have doubts? ?(

    Bob,


    Doubts have nothing to do with it.


    The site is experiencing a lull before a surge of activity.


    Currently, most of the highly successful replicators are being VERY quiet (although I've heard a few positive whispers through the grapevine) and there is little significant news to report on. My guess is when the Quark is demonstrated and additional replications are published, the activity will increase.


    The unfortunate truth I'm realizing is that when many Ni-H or Ni-Li-H replicators achieve success -- especially in this hostile environment due to the lawsuit between Rossi and IH -- they go underground. There are probably many reasons for this: avoiding any chance of getting dragged into the muck raking, seeking to develop their own variations of the technology, becoming fearful of the world having access to the technology, etc. All it will take is for ONE individual who perform a long series of hundreds of tests (like Me356) and be willing to share their EXPERIENCE on how to induce hydrogen absorption, create the high pressure zones needed inside of the lattice, and trigger excess heat. Once that happens, this field will become more active than anyone can imagine. It will be like going from a world in which the only place to get a hamburger is your mother's kitchen, to a world in which there's a fast foot joint on every street corner -- McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King, Steak and Shake, Five Guys, Krystals, Hardees, Dairy Queen, etc.

    • Official Post

    @Bob: I guess most people at ECW are very disappointed about the latest Rossi developments (very weak one year test, IH calling Rossi a fraudster, Rossi's more and more obvious and boring self-talks at his blog and and and...).


    Additional to that, a lot of ECW readers now seem to recognize that Frank has hold back a lot of negative but important details about Rossi's ecat developments over the years (for e.g. there is not one critical (not pathoskeptical) discussion about the scientific validity of the lugano report).


    Then the orbo/steorn flop where Frank collected over 1000$ from his readers to buy one...


    Just a few examples which came to my mind.

    Quote from MrSelfSustain

    Bob,


    Doubts have nothing to do with it.


    This is obviously exaggerated. It is quite obvious that many long-term supporters of Rossi are bailing, as they actually read the evidence instead of just trading sound bites on e-catworld. Most will simply disappear, a few will comment. What surprised me was this (reformatted a bit)


    Quote

    Timar
    • 7 hours ago


    Yet Rossi's legal workload doesn't seem to be high enough to keep him from ever more absurd soliloquizing on his JoNP:


    Here, Timar was a bit more blunt:
    Rossi blog comments


    Quote

    This is getting utterly ridiculous!
    Does Rossi think the readers of his blog are complete idiots?


    Back to Mr SelfSustain:


    Quote

    The site is experiencing a lull before a surge of activity.


    Perhaps. Rossi's motion to dismiss was just totally shot down, and nobody on e-catworld has noticed. When Darden filed his motion to dismiss all eight counts of the Rossi complaint, they were full of glee on c-catworld. Four of the eight counts were immediately dismissed and the Judge made noises like she might dismiss the central count. That is still unresolved.


    Rossi challenged all four counts of the countercomplaint, and all challenges were denied. It appears that things are not going particularly well for Rossi in Discovery, but that is more difficult to assess. IH refused to answer overbroad questions, and most of their objections were sustained. Rossi has objected to a request for post-test photos and videos of the Doral facility. I wonder why? Inquiring minds want to know: what happened with that "chemical plant"?


    On e-catworld, I'm still on moderation, so my answer to this, below, is still not approved, but a random troll may immediately post (there are only two comments of mine there that have been deleted, vs hundreds of comments approved. Most sane site moderators would, at this point, realize that post-hoc moderation is far more efficient, but maybe Frank has a reason.



    E-catworld is a pro-Rossi site, explicitly. I respect that. Almost all I write there is information, such as this post quoted above. To fanatics -- and some of Planet Rossi is fanatic -- what matters is not information but the imagined motivations of those who provide it. Mind rot! FUD! And so they set themselves up for massive and continued delusion. I am not claiming that all Rossi supporters are deluded, but some are astonishingly so. There is no evidence anywhere of "IH service" for anyone writing on the blogs. I'll set aside Dewey Weaver, where he is actually an investor, not someone paid to write on blogs! Blog commentary is of practically no benefit to Industrial Heat, they would be crazy to pay for it, and they aren't crazy. There is, however, someone who has, in the past, benefited from blog positings. Who would that be? If someone is creating FUD, who would have a motive, and particularly a financial one? It's not rocket science to guess! That Rossi uses sock puppets, almost certainly him, on JONP is very well-known, and he probably uses sock puppets elsewhere, or there are some who write quite like he would write, with highly misleading "information."


    My response to pg is still pending:


    Quote

    Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax Gerald 3 hours ago
    Pending


    No, not as to any connection I know of. Here is a photo of him: http://www.jonesday.com/clomax/


    Almost everything I write is from public record. The only forum I am writing extensively on at the present time is lenr-form.com.


    I am not "complaining" about e-catworld, I describe it. It is an openly pro-Rossi site, like some others. Lenr-forum is generally neutral, overall. Of course, Rossi has attacked lenr-forum on his blog....


    Quote

    Currently, most of the highly successful replicators are being VERY quiet (although I've heard a few positive whispers through the grapevine) and there is little significant news to report on. My guess is when the Quark is demonstrated and additional replications are published, the activity will increase.


    There is a common confusion between replication and confirmation. There is no replicator of Rossi's results, so far. There are what have been claimed to be confirmations; they are all weak. That does not mean "wrong."


    Rossi "demonstrations" will have less and less effec, because the lack of independent replication -- or confirmation at anything like the claimed power levels -- has taken its toll. The boy who cried wolf!


    We know that Rossi can fake demonstrations, one way or another. His standard calorimetry method is highly vulnerable to artifact, deliberate or accidental. Lugano was a complete disaster, due to major IR thermometry error -- and there is a writer here still apparently defending that error, when anyone who understands basic physics will see the problem, and it may be even simpler than that. That writer may well be Rossi, so ... what will Rossi use to demonstrate heat? And then what? No corporation would now touch him with a ten-foot pole: he would place the entire corporation, and officers personally, at risk.


    Quote

    The unfortunate truth I'm realizing is that when many Ni-H or Ni-Li-H replicators achieve success -- especially in this hostile environment due to the lawsuit between Rossi and IH -- they go underground.


    The lawsuit has not created that environment. At all. Cold fusion has faced hostility for 27 years. Anyone who wants to work in this field must be prepared for that. "Going underground," however, would only apply to those who are personally vulnerable, such as by having a job where working on cold fusion could harm career. This will have no effect on most amateurs. But some become enamored of the possibility of commercial success. The secrecy in the field mostly comes from that effect.


    Quote

    There are probably many reasons for this: avoiding any chance of getting dragged into the muck raking, seeking to develop their own variations of the technology, becoming fearful of the world having access to the technology, etc.


    Again, anyone discouraged by "muck raking," which would only mean criticism on the internet, for the most part, isn't ready to do cold fusion work. What actual scientists discover is that they can totally ignore it.


    The problem with the Lugano scientists is not that they did not reply on the blogs, but that they did not reply at all to cogent critique, including by scientists. Yes, they might be suffering blowback. But these are not the "independent replicators" SelfSustain is talking about. They were academics, with reputations to defend (reputations being used and promoted by Rossi), and they screwed up. Didn't they realize what they were getting into?


    Quote

    All it will take is for ONE individual who perform a long series of hundreds of tests (like Me356) and be willing to share their EXPERIENCE on how to induce hydrogen absorption, create the high pressure zones needed inside of the lattice, and trigger excess heat. Once that happens, this field will become more active than anyone can imagine.


    Of course. That will happen when there is independent replication of such results. Did Me356 share his experience? How would we know what would happen if he was successful and did share it fully (which with the real science here, sometimes requires lab visits, because there may be critical features of the protocol that are not documented, happens all the time.)[/quote]


    Rossi did stir up a lot of interest. And attempting to replicate him has been a colossal distraction, and it has been heavily afflicted by the file drawer effect.

    Abd,


    The folks at E-Cat World have no reason, as of yet, to pay super-close attention to the lawsuit at this time. As I've said before, at least when it comes to what is made available to those of us watching from the outside, IH and Rossi are barely, "going at it." Neither side has revealed their cards yet. Actually, as someone who thinks the E-Cat technology works, I think the fact that the judge didn't dismiss IH's counter claims could be a very good thing for those of us who want the full truth to be revealed about this entire situation, sooner rather than later. Basically, the bolder and more "damning" accusations and claims made by IH, the more pressured Rossi will be to utilize one of his wabbits -- which I'm convinced he has. And, to a certain degree, the reverse may be true. The more accusations Rossi makes about IH the more emboldened they are to push back and the cycle continues back and forth. Basically, one sides takes off their boxing gloves and puts on spiked brass knuckles. And in response, the other puts on an even more pointy pair. The wild card is that we don't know which sets of knuckles are really cheap crumbly plastic, soft rubber, or hardened Tungsten. What matters is that both sides move forward and prepare to dish out their worst evidence.


    From my perspective, I have no doubt that Rossi has a few "wabbits" or knuckles that aren't made of marshmellow candy. If Rossi is pushed too hard, he might choose to reveal them sooner than he would otherwise. But I think he is intentionally holding back until the last possible moment. The following are a few scenarios that I imagine.


    In the best case, he proves a loose connection with Johnson Matthey, a manufacturing process was in use that produced real product, James Bass did indeed operate manufacturing equipment, and manages to refute the notion that no excess heat was produced. He may likely not be able to refute all of IHs accusations, but the idea that the entire test was a "total" hoax will be successfully refuted, even if many lingering inconsistencies, exaggerations, and oddities remain. To be clear, I'm NOT saying this will allow him to "win" the case. Just show that the whole year long test in Doral wasn't all a convoluted massive hoax of the worst kind. The result might be at least neutral for him. If he waits until the very end to reveal these "wabbits" they may have more of an impact. It would be like someone being convicted of a horrible crime, after a long and grueling court battle, producing a rock solid alibi of there whereabouts during the event at the last moment. The prosecution may still have proven intent and a host of other issues, but the defendant would be able to show he was dining with the President of France at the time.


    In worse case, he may be exposed as having no real manufacturing process, hiring James Bass to do almost nothing, making up the connection with Johnson Matthey, etc. In this case, his only option will be to present evidence that his technology as a whole works -- which I'm convinced it does. He wouldn't be able to prove anything about the Doral test directly, but might present working devices, analysis of fuel samples by third parties, or unpublished third party replications. The result obviously would not allow him to win the case. It's possible he could actually be in deep trouble due to countersuits by IH. If he ended up in prison, he may never be able to work on the E-Cat technology again. But the information he might provide in a desperate attempt to prove his technology may be VERY useful and enlightening.


    Either way, the LENR community learns more. And that's really the ultimate goal from my perspective -- for more information about the E-Cat to be revealed to the world with the goal of inspiring widespread replications.


    So basically, in this legal battle, the more IH (figuratively speaking in a legal sense and not literally so because I'm not suggesting any violent activity) tries to beat the holy hell out of Andrea Rossi the better the result for the LENR community. And, of course, vice versa, because the result will be a backlash by IH that triggers more of a response by Andrea Rossi.


    There's really very little useful information that I think he'll be able to obtain from IH, except perhaps them sharing certain bits of confidential information with his "competitors" -- and that is only a possibility. But, in the broadest sense of the interpretation of the horrible contract they all signed, that was allowed.


    In conclusion, I think Andrea Rossi is planning on pulling a Rocky Balboa -- take a horrendous beating for several rounds and then suddenly reveal his "wabbit" near the end. And, like in the first Rocky Balboa movie, he may not win. In that movie Rocky Balboa ended up in a hospital bed in the same room next to Apollo Creed after lasting ten rounds. I think he achieved a draw if I remember correctly.


    Ten years from now Rossi might fight the Russian.

    Adb,
    I was looking at EGOOUT on 11/13 (post dates are 11/13--11/14) and it quotes you at length but then in the next post it says you are not the post author. I re-read the post as it is in your style. I just can not understand why someone would post with your name and in your style. The post is not controversial, I just do not understand the motive.
    I have also noted that Brian Ahern has said he also post that was not his on Vort. Why in heck would someone go to this trouble? This is not just a rhetorical question it seems bizarre.
    And thanks for the work reporting on the case.

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