Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Ele said in #443

contains many upsetting statements like:

Zeneca retains control over the Campus Bay Property to manage and potentially reduce its clean-up

expenses through the administrative processes (2013!)

ele

It is to your credit (I think) that the behaviour of giant chemical companies like AstroZeneca, dealing with industrial pollution from the last 70 years, should upset you. I'd guess you are therefore also unhappy with Rossi for his Petroldragon pollution fiasco.

But that has nothing to do with IH, and is only to do with Rossi in the past. I'd reckon his US DoD TEG scam was more relevant than Petroldragon to the current situation. And I don't see any of this past stuff as more relevant than the disclosed deceit in the Court documents. Have you actually read the MSJs and answers? Annesser is twistier than a cat 8, but if you follow through the hard evidence - as in a number of cases Abd has done - the legal situation is pretty clear.

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/im-okay-if-my-enemy-is-bad/

http://coldfusioncommunity.net…address-summary-judgment/

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/ele-mental-my-dear-2/

http://coldfusioncommunity.net…ying-liars-who-tell-them/

Quote from ele

Interesting that you do not post the link to google maps. If the rules should be equal to everyone you should post the link AND demonstrate that you are pointing google maps on the right location. Note that I have posted a list of links about that trial.

Step 1. Search for the address in the documents YOU provided with google maps. Step 2 look for the a large, empty industrial site. Step 3 confirm address with a 5 second Google search.

https://goo.gl/maps/hEeVZrFeuPH2

http://www.berkeleycitizen.org/community/community9.htm.

While we are playing the game of let's waste each others time, can you provide evidence that houses were built on the site please? I think you will find it more difficult.

Quote from JedRothwell

Yes, you have, but there is absolutely no experimental evidence for this. You have also stated that the e-cat works, but you have not read the Penon report, so you know nothing about it and you have no basis for this assertion either. You say all kinds of things about subjects you know nothing about. You have zero credibility.

It is as if you said: "I have stated that pink elephants have taken over the U.S. Senate, and leprechauns are in charge of the Treasury." Yes, okay, but that is nonsense. Anyone familiar with the literature can see that your statement about particle emissions is nonsense, and anyone who has read the Penon report can see that your statements about the e-cat are nonsense. Why do you bother saying things when anyone can fact-check you and see that you are wrong? What is the point? Are you trying to make yourself look ridiculous?

Jed,

Be a bit more kind here.

Axil,

You have always been civil and helpful, and take the high road. So try to understand why people are frustrated here. If it helps what I have done for myself is separate LENR from Rossi. Since we (all here at LF) seem to go around and round on Rossi. What would it take to disbelieve him? How much evidence and what type? Jed is pointing to the lack of experimental evidence. Having faith is a good thing but lends itself to religion, experiments are a good thing and lend themselves to science. But we can not have faith based science without good honest experiments and that is what we now have. Rossi was into each and everyone of those tests quite literally up to his elbows. The replicators have not been able to prove anything in years. So back to the point, what would it take to let go of the e-cat?

Quote from THHuxleynew

I'd guess you are therefore also unhappy with Rossi for his Petroldragon pollution fiasco.

Oh dear the usual story.

A) Petrodragon was using a technology called Pyrolysis, that is now widely used.

B) Problems with Petroldragon begun when Rossi was unjustly jailed due to a retroactive law.

C) Rossi was cleared (otherwise he would not able to enter US) and even refund by italian State.

D) His accusers were investigated because they had connection with MAFIA.

Quote from Jimmy

While we are playing the game of let's waste each others time, can you provide evidence that houses were built on the site please? I think you will find it more difficult.

Hello New IH TROLL. Welcome to the club.

About the location of Campus Bay. I have seen already that google satellite image but that is LOT3 not LOT1 nd LOT2.

Quote from ele

Hello New IH TROLL. Welcome to the club.

About the location of Campus Bay. I have seen already that google satellite image but that is LOT3 not LOT1 nd LOT2.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Maybe you were thinking I wouldn't bother with the additional 2 minutes of googling to see that all three lots are in the same empty industrial site I originally pointed to. But I had a spare 2 minutes.

In fact, there is lots and lots of information about this site, just a quick google away. Here: http://rfs-env.berkeley.edu/pd…t%20Monitoring%20Plan.pdf someone has kindly labelled the whole Cherokee site in pink for you. Here someone shows you where the lots are: http://richmondconfidential.or…-legacy-of-contamination/.

I probably don't have another 2 minutes to deal with your next trick, but if you do manage to show me a picture of the houses I'll give you a thumbs up.

Quote from Rigel

The replicators have not been able to prove anything in years.

Rigel : This is awfully wrong. Celani is at COP 2 Parkhomov slightly higher, both with no special tuning because they do fundamental work. The Japanese have fully replicated all the old excess heat claim, that time with sophisticated measurment, that no longer can be spoiled by anybody...

To sum it IP: NiLi ZrO xy H/D LENR is ready for take-off and there is no longer any room for others to flood forums with "no excess-heat FUD".

Quote from Wyttenbach

This is awfully wrong. Celani is at COP 2 Parkhomov slightly higher, both with no special tuning because they do fundamental work.

I do not think so. In my opinion, both are making errors in calorimetry, and they have not observed excess heat.

You should not accept all claims at face value.

The MFMP started out by looking at Celani's stuff, and they found nothing, as I recall.

I think MFMP thought they had some minor excess heat levels. Regardless, researchers at SKINR demonstrated through some very well done studies using Celani provided wires that it didn't work. I'll look up a reference if there is interest.

Quote from Jack Cole

Regardless, researchers at SKINR demonstrated through some very well done studies using Celani provided wires that it didn't work.

Those people have done an excellent job of knocking down other people's claims. That's a valuable contribution but . . . kinda depressing. Depressing for them, too, I think.

OTOH, I heard a rumor that they once again got significant excess heat lately. I hope that is true. I have not heard from them directly.

For those who are interested, this article from SKINR exemplifies a good scientific approach showing null results from the Celani approach.

The article is "Final Report on Calorimetry-based Excess Heat Trials using Celani Treated NiCuMn (Constantan) Wires," by El-Boher et al., and the abstract says:

Quote

Sensitive mass flow calorimetry was used in a series of tests to evaluate eight treated NiCuMn (Constantan) wires in a gas loading cell. The goal of this testing was to reproduce and confirm the production of excess heat when using an experimental setup similar to that demonstrated in 2013 by Dr. Francesco Celani at National Instrument’s NI week and ICCF 17. Six of the eight Constantan wires used in the SKINR tests were provided by Dr. Celani and the remaining two were obtained from Mathieu Valat. Initial tests in the series closely followed the set-up, operation, and heating protocols used by Dr. Celani with a significantly modified stainless test cell to enable the use of mass flow calorimetry. Later tests used the same modified test cell but added additional heating protocols using pulsed or highly modulated electric currents (SuperWaves) to enhance hydrogen loading and create additional thermal gradients within the Constantan wires. No excess heat was observed in a calorimeter of a sensitivity <10 mW when running either the initial or later test protocols during ∼ 200 days of testing

Quote from Eric Walker

The MFMP started out by looking at Celani's stuff, and they found nothing, as I recall.

At Asti Celani presented his new work (COP 2) with an improved wire coating.

But you are completely right to think that repros did (mostly) show nothing, because everybody is hiding some details...

The low Temp. (300C) Mizuno/Takahashi** repro of NiZrOxy H/D seems also to work well, with excess heat of up to 60eV/Ni.

As said: LENR is in a slow take-off phase and anybody, that believes others will listen to the various "NiH doesn't work mantras", will soon face ignorance.

Quote from Jack Cole

I think MFMP thought they had some minor excess heat levels. Regardless, researchers at SKINR demonstrated through some very well done studies using Celani provided wires that it didn't work. I'll look up a reference if there is interest.

The only problem with what you say Jack is that one can always just say they did the experiment wrong, and that's why they saw nothing. As the saying goes "lack of evidence is not evidence of lack". What would be more useful is if they had seen something and then offered an alternative explanation that accounted well for it.

Quote from Roseland67

A grand total of NOBODY, ever once, has even remotely suggested that Darden was any kind of savior,

So why did you write that?

You have short memory, and I have no desire to resume the examples among hundreds of old posts. But already on this page you can read Jack Cole saying "Cherokee was trying to do some good for the environment" and THH saying "Except that IH have no legal connection to Cherokee - they are a pet altruistic and clearly money-losing project of The Cherokee founders ". At least you should suspect that someone sees a halo on Darden's head.

Quote from THHuxleynew

So, yes, I expect that their individual projects will sometimes fail, and lose money for all investors. When they fail the mess they were in business to remediate will often still remain.

What is so difficult to understand?

I'd expect many of their projects to fail - given the risk - but I notice you have found only one?

So IH is not made up by VCs but by bettors? Does their "due diligence" consist in pulling the die and wager the money of investors?

Quote from Wyttenbach

At Asti Celani presented his new work (COP 2) with an improved wire coating.

I will believe it when Celani is replicated by at least two solid/halfway skeptical groups.

Quote from kirkshanahan

What would be more useful is if they had seen something and then offered an alternative explanation that accounted well for it.

Even better: a patent disclosure or a recipe that other groups can follow and see excess heat for themselves (or some kind of artifact).