Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

    Quote from JedRothwell

    and the water coming out of the pipe (which was visible) . . .

    I mean that the end of the pipe with the water coming out of it was visible. You can see what I mean in some of the photos posted here. The photos showed that the water went back into a large plastic tank which was somewhat transparent. Sort of like the one shown here:


    http://www.plastic-mart.com/pr…ttled-ibc-tote-ce-275tote


    I gather you could see and hear the water going back into it.


    That kind of tank is not airtight, which is why we know the pipe going back to it had to be gravity return. That, in turn, tells us the pipe was mostly empty. You can only have a full pipe if the entire circuit is airtight and pressurized, like an old fashioned hot-water radiator circuit. If you were to pressurize the water in closed circuit with that tank, the water would all spray out from under the lid of the tank.


    Penon's schematic shows the flowmeter is on the return pipe.


    Even if the flow rate had been as high as claimed, a gravity return pipe of that diameter with that flow rate would be mostly empty. You can determine the pipe diameter from the flowmeter specifications, and you can look up the maximum capacity of a pipe of that diameter used for drainage with gravity only and no pump. You will see the pipe can carry much more water than Penon's tables show.

    Quote from oldguy

    It would not be truthful to call a device self sustaining if it has to be connected to something that supplies power to sustain its operation, even if that power was intermittent. .... Unless that controller is unpowered.

    Yes it would if the power pack is not supplying any energy to the reactor while in self sustain. No one here knows how often, or for how long power is required to keep the E-Cat X operating.

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    If IH had all this allegedly damning evidence why did they agree to the settlement?

    You can read the evidence and decide for yourself whether it is damning. I think it is -- perhaps you disagree. I think the reports from Penon, Murray and Smith are as damning as any technical evidence could be. I cannot imagine why you or anyone else with technical knowledge would not instantly see this is fraud from those reports alone.


    I have not looked closely at the evidence for fraud such as the fake company, but that seems conclusive as well.


    I have the impression they agreed to the settlement because the trial was costing a fortune and they determined there was little chance of recovering any money from Rossi even if they won. It would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. But you would have to ask them why they settled.


    I read the opening statements at Abd's blog. I found them terrifying. I thought, "if the jury had some gullible people I.H. might have lost this." I was relieved when the trial was called off.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    How humans went from using tools made from sticks and stones to using semiconductors while adhering to ideas contrary to facts constantly amazes me. No wonder some people think that much of our modern technology and even ancient architecture was devised with help and information supplied to us by extraterrestrials.

    Well, our propensity to believe ideas contrary to facts is why it took so long for science to emerge. If human nature were a little more rational, we would have developed today's science & technology thousands of years ago. Maybe hundreds of thousands . . .


    As Arthur Clarke pointed out, the Antikythera mechanism (circa 200 BC) shows a level of workmanship, technique and precision that could easily have supported modern scientific experiments and technology.


    The notion that extraterrestrials helped us develop modern technology gets my goat! Years ago someone told me that integrated circuit technology came extraterrestrial technology. From a NASA discovery of a crashed flying saucer or some darn thing. I said: "No, it doesn't. I know who invented integrated circuits. I know what they did at each step. I have even met some of those people. They are all human beings, not men from Mars." (I said something like that.)


    I am reminded of a scene in the SF novel "A Canticle for Leibowitz" in which a character looks out at the remains of a modern U.S. city centuries after a nuclear war. He sees a man who walks home every day instead of riding his donkey because the donkey was carrying too much to ride in the morning, and it does not occur to him to ride in the afternoon. The character says something like "look at that fool and then tell me that men such as him built this city in ancient times. It couldn't have happened." He says there must have been a superior race.


    (Okay, I may have the details wrong since I have not read the book in 40 years.)

    "They are all human beings, not men from Mars"

    The IC inventor team superseded Schockley

    It is our propensity for rational plus irrational thought that make us human.


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    JedRothwell ,

    It has been about 30 years since I read A Canticle for Leibowitz. It is one of about a dozen novels I have read that I still think about every now and then... Making copies of blue prints, in blue with white lines, because that is what the original was without considering why it was that way...


    In another world.... the hot Durapot 810 slab is sitting around 600 C now. The IR thermometer emissivity setting is dropping with increased temperature...

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    Profile reads:

    THHuxleynew Master, Member since Jan 18th 2017, Posts 1,426


    I suspect THHuxleynew has called Rossi a fraud more often than the total posts I've made. Posting the same thing shouldn't accumulate points. I neither care about nor want a label. particularly one so inappropriate.

    Yes, but read my post for a subtle hint: THH has had other names here. The powers that be have seen fit to transfer his points to the newer identity, at least twice. It is an artifact of some judgments being made that likely have a rationale, even if in retrospect perhaps not the wisest one.

    Quote from Longview

    Yes, but read my post for a subtle hint: THH has had other names here. The powers that be have seen fit to transfer his points to the newer identity, at least twice. It is an artifact of some judgments being made that likely have a rationale, even if in retrospect perhaps not the wisest one.


    I have to ask so what? While i believe in LENR "he TTH" is skeptical. I surely want to hear both sides of any thing, so I can understand. We have to give up wondering who someone is.

    His arguments are persuasive. Did anyone here not want Rossi to work? I certainly did. What is wrong with wanting valid science? We are not on the same page anymore on these forums if we all just have to agree.


    I am not a Rossi fan, but still think LENR is real. How does that resolve? I had the honor of meeting a believer and a skeptic that were quite knowledgeable this summer.

    They had access to resources that were quite immense.


    They were diametrically opposed and still somehow respected each other.

    Honesty is not our enemy. Can not be. Science should be the platform we stand on.

    Quote from Longview

    Likewise. No offense intended. BTW, I was addressing Adrian Ashfield who appeared to have a legitimate question.

    All good.


    I think we want the same thing. I do not care who TTH is but "what he says". We all have been here a long time. I want to ensure I understand. Forgive question just wanted clarification. We have some good people here.

    Quote from kenko1

    I predict the demo will be on Thursday, November 23, 2 pm CST and broadcast for 1/2 hour. Oceanside, Miami Beach, FL. An E-CAT-X roasted Turkey and dressing and all the fixinz included.

    ...

    I bet against that, 100 rossis on " another delay".

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    MY - what I said, and what you say, are not a contradiction. You only think that if you have a narrow view of the human psyche.


    I agree that he is successful exactly because people see one aspect of his persona and think it is the whole, and that it implies technical consistency, competence, and honesty.

    To be sure, he is more complicated than most. It's hard to tell where the act begins and ends. He has a little something for everyone in terms of characteristics. His different aspects are appealing to many scientists, dreamers, multiple political perspectives, religious, conspiratorial thinkers, and so forth. How much of it is real or crafted? Before, I thought a scammer wouldn't have this complex persona, but eventually I realized that this is part of the con (to evoke just that very thought).

    As Jed Rothwell, said, IH could not afford to risk some $300 million on the probability that an entirely lay jury would believe corporate types and academics over a con man and a bunch of accomplished liars. Not a risk worth taking. Why would they? They did not admit wrong doing and they did not pay Rossi anything. That's a win for them and a clear loss for Rossi.


    Alan purports to have invited me to attend (were you planning to fit me in your suitcase?) but in reality, Rossi already had his chance with me back in 2011. Then, I was in email communications with Jed Rothwell. I have described this before but, briefly, the idea was for Jed to put together a team to fly to Italy and test the steam ecat exactly as it was. I was prepared to meet them in Italy.


    The plan was simply to collect all the steam and condense it ("sparge" it) into an insulated and instrumented water tank to measure its energy content. Voila, problem solved. Needless to say, the test would have been done without the need for Rossi to reveal any trade secret or to allow any measurement which might expose intellectual property.


    Of course, Rossi never agreed to that simple and direct plan for the experiment. He also did not offer to do such a test himself or to have it done by others. That was when I became absolutely certain he was a fraud. No legitimate inventor would refuse a definitive test of their invention when it was offered without cost by a trustworthy group of experts or for that matter, by himself or anyone.


    In the last 5+ years, Rossi has never allowed a single proper and independent test of his ecat. There never was a need for a hot cat. There is no need for a QuarkX. The original steam ecat which puportedly made 10kW+ from a tennis ball sized reactor sitting on a desktop in a stable and consistent manner purportedly for six months on a tiny amount of cheap fuel-- that alone was worth billions or trillions and probably a Nobel Prize. If the thing had been real, Rossi could have written his own ticket. Running a silly kludge of 50 pieces of junk in a shipping container? Absurd from the start. Why IH ever agreed to that will always be a mystery to me.

    In these times, the art of confirmation bias has evolved to an unprecedented level. The ability to filter out overwhelming amounts of negative information allows people to support the unsupportable. In the LENR microcosm, it results in the amazing spectacle of seemingly intelligent people believing Rossi to actually have something of value.

    His name is Andrea Rossi. He causes pathological skeptics to howl, believers to weep, and fence sitters to simply sit. He brings out visceral emotions. He is like a lightning rod that attracts the sparks of all corners of society. He backs down to no one. He is charming and charismatic. He believes that the ends justifies the means. He is hated. He is admired. He is feared by some. Millions of words and thousands of pages of text have been written about him. Multiple books have captured the details of his life. He perseveres. He broke a long distance running record as a young man. He doesn't give up. Neither do his enemies. He aspires to change the world. The results of independent verifications of his technology cause energy markets to drop, Blackrock to take note, and government agencies to inquire. His demonstrations attract bright and able academics. He is scorned and scoffed at. His name is Andrea Rossi. That is all you need to know.

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