IHF: as a self-proclaimed fence straddler, how many of your more than 2,000 posts would you say were critical of Rossi?
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As I've stated before, I fully believe real fusion will beat so-called cold fusion to have a working plant. The next real fusion reactor up at the moment is Wendelstein. It successfully completed it's initial 10 week re-start phase and is now going for performance. They apparently are running plasmas at 40 MillionC. I'll have to recheck but I think the goal for this one is about 80 to 90 Million C so they are still working towards that.
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"I fully believe real fusion will beat so-called cold fusion to have a working plant"
Have you seen any timeline for Wendelstein7X reaching "working plant" status??
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@Shane?
Cooking and nature? Really?
I'll take History, Discovery, and SyFy any day over those. Although with Blue Apron, I'm beginning to discover my inner chef.
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It might be that the LENR situation does not meet your expectations. It could be that the issue lies in your expectations and not in the LENR situation. What do you expect that the LENR situation must deliver to meet your expectations?
That might be it. I guess my expectations will be met when a market forms. Because markets drive creative destruction, of which I am an adherent.
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IHF: as a self-proclaimed fence straddler, how many of your more than 2,000 posts would you say were critical of Rossi?
A fair number of them. I'm a fence sitter on the e-Cat but quite certain about the realities of LENR in general. Admittedly, I lean Rossi. Maybe that is because I usually pull for the underdog. And the amount of smoke put up by the other side is sometimes suffocating and is in sorry need of dispersion.
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As I've stated before, I fully believe real fusion will beat so-called cold fusion to have a working plant.
In some real sense that contest has long been over. One might benefit by doing the comparative calculations for a cubic meter of the core of our Sun and say a roughly equivalent mass of a laser driven inertial confinement system for hot fusion research, say NIF (USA National Ignition Facility). In summary: solar core output is reportedly 276.5 watts per cubic meter. Solar core pressure: over 250 billion atmospheres. Core temperature: 15.7 million kelvin. Solar "time of confinement": continuous over billions of years v. 6 ns for an NIF shot. Peak temperature in NIF reportedly ~50 million kelvin (although others here have insisted it has reached much higher temperatures). Pressure in NIF: 300 billion atmospheres at peak. Working mass in NIF: up to 0.01 g. Working mass in solar core of one cubic meter (core mass at 150 g/cm3 i.e. 1.5 X 108 g or 150 tonnes / m3).
Now compare those two sets of estimates with say the "triple product extension" (time x pressure x temperature) of the Lawson Criterion described on the web. That criterion in a side by side comparison gives one little confidence that inertial confinement hot fusion can exceed breakeven on any sustainable basis. Needless to say the modest output of less than one third of a kW from 150 tonnes of our Sun is, from a human perspective, at least sustainable, quite stable and requires zero maintenance. Of course, to be fair, we would demand that any LENR device show a substantial COP. If the solar core were in that contest, it would likely be considered dead at a COP of so little over 1.000000 as to be rejected.
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Alan,
Since you will be attending (hopefully), the below is quite interesting.
November 5, 2017 at 6:24 PM
Dr. Rossi:
Will you be inviting representatives from the US Department of Energy and/or the US Department of Defense or their laboratories to your November demonstration of the E-CAT QX? Best of luck on the demonstration which will make the world aware of the next generation of clean energy production.
Andrea Rossi
November 5, 2017 at 7:59 PMDrew G.:
Yes.Warm Regards,
A.R.
Same old pattern we have seen from 2011, but who knows! I really doubt there will be any DOD or DOE people there. Not after the Doral debacle!
I sincerely hope that you will be able to openly report everything you observe at the demo. If not, then a wasted trip. For what good is knowledge if you cannot share it?
Can you update us if there has been anymore communication from Rossi on the demo, such as confirmation it is actually taking place? Demo protocol? Restrictions?
Thanks in advance.
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If the attendees see an obvious dog and pony show set-up, their role there merely to act as stage props to lend some sorely needed legitimacy, I hope they walk out in protest. Even with an NDA, that gesture alone will tell us all we need to know, and maybe save another investor from throwing his money away. I understand that will be difficult to do, as Rossi is only inviting those who have demonstrated loyalty (AFAIK) to him. However, I would hope their commitment to science, is stronger than their commitment to the man.
Had those attending the Oct 28 2011 demo done that (walk out), it may have saved IH a lot of trouble, us a lot of wasted time, and LENR the guilt by association.
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I hope they walk out in protest
I wish the same. But I consider it unlikely. I think most of those who remain with Rossi are committed for the long haul, no matter how shady things get. I do not think there is anything that Rossi could do short of giving a full admission of malfeasance that would shake the faith and interest of the core of supporters that are left. This is the Internet, and the world is a big place, and there are lots of people in it.
(With due respect to Alan, who got an opportunity he couldn't turn down.)
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Assuming there is no NDA, and assuming the demo is a joke, I actually hope people stay to the end and give a full report.
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(With due respect to Alan, who got an opportunity he couldn't turn down.)
That's probably how all of them rationalise it...
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Same old pattern we have seen from 2011, but who knows! I really doubt there will be any DOD or DOE people there. Not after the Doral debacle!
I sincerely hope that you will be able to openly report everything you observe at the demo. If not, then a wasted trip. For what good is knowledge if you cannot share it?
Can you update us if there has been anymore communication from Rossi on the demo, such as confirmation it is actually taking place? Demo protocol? Restrictions?
Hi Bob. I will certainly report everything I observe as fully as possible. As for communications or (at present) restrictions. Zilch, zip, nada, except for the original request not to reveal the exact date or location. I have every reason to hope that the fat lady will sing as promised, and have heard nothing to make me doubt it.
ETA- I am booked to be there for 48 hours after the demo, so if there is a post mortem dinner I will attend that too.
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That's probably how all of them rationalise it...
I wish the same. But I consider it unlikely. I think most of those who remain with Rossi are committed for the long haul, no matter how shady things get. I do not think there is anything that Rossi could do short of giving a full admission of malfeasance that would shake the faith and interest of the core of supporters that are left. This is the Internet, and the world is a big place, and there are lots of people in it.
(With due respect to Alan, who got an opportunity he couldn't turn down.)
OMG! There seems to be no end in the FUD and downplaying applied by the operatives to the presence of Alan at the demo ... It must be really important to make it look like Rossi is still a fraud even if it looks like success to everyone attending. But then again. This is the way it has been for more than six years now. Almost everyone actually seeing a demo live is positive to the tech and only the armchair players cry fraud... It certainly tells me a lot.
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Alan's upcoming saga is eerily similar to that of "Dr. Mike" who, in 2007, traveled all the way from the US to the Steorn "demo" in London.
Like Alan, Dr. Mike was well meaning and honest and he had a genuine interest in the tech. He was promised by the Steorn CEO that he would get a lab tour, and would be allowed to "take a screwdriver to the device." Also that he would attend the "aftersession" at the demo site which was reserved for VIP's. He went, nothing worked. The aftersession was a dud. Nothing happened there at all except for a few people experimenting with useless "Minato" wheel toys. Steorn ignored Dr. Mike and he got neither his lab tour nor was he allowed to examine the purported "Orbo" device close up much less with a screwdriver. I provided an anonymous person with covert video gear so someone did publish a Youtube video of the supposedly secret and completely useless aftersession. It was just like Rossi's Novemeber 2011 "megawatt" fiasco except that Steorn did not bother to provide a NATO colonel stooge.
Just for giggles, here is the Youtube videos which are still up. http://freeenergytracker.blogs…netica-spinning-orbo.html (not great but remember, this was done with a hidden camera using 2007 video technology) People sometimes tell me I do nothing... well I do stuff like this. I provided the equipment which made the video possible and edited the resulting product. Someone else posted it. Steorn was not delighted.
Dr. Mike dutifully reported all this on the now long deleted Steorn forum. That did not change the believers who continued to pour money into the company until the level of stupidity rose, like Rossi's, to the point where most people deserted and the company finally (after almost ten years) went belly up. During that time, Sean McCarthy lived "fat on the hog" on a princely salary and perks from bleeding the company's initial 20 million Euro investment fund. Sound familiar? Timing is a bit different but otherwise, Rossi is following the model exactly. Ever and ever more extravagant claims, ever and ever lower performance results. The only different wrinkle was the lawsuit which was an idiotic mistake by Rossi and cost him millions in lawyer fees.
To those who keep an open mind about Rossi, the probability that a convicted felon who created an environmental disaster followed by a thermoelectric scam and who lied again and again and provided nothing to IH in return for $11M will provide a real working device is vastly less than the the probability of my pink, invisible flying unicorns providing useful power.
ETA: this is not the same Dr. Mike who writes on e-catworld.com. Far as I know, the Steorn story Dr. Mike has no interest in Rossi.
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@maryyugo who do you think contribute more to advancing lenr cause: stupid gullible optimists or paranoid pessimists?
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OMG! There seems to be no end in the FUD and downplaying applied by the operatives to the presence of Alan at the demo ... It must be really important to make it look like Rossi is still a fraud even if it looks like success to everyone attending. But then again. This is the way it has been for more than six years now. Almost everyone actually seeing a demo live is positive to the tech and only the armchair players cry fraud... It certainly tells me a lot.
Siffer,
I do not know how you can say that. Not that I needed to hear it, but Rossi just confessed, albeit indirectly, to a series of lies with his one post the other day. That being the 1MW was never ready for market, thereby there never was a customer, and he misrepresented the Ecat to IH, you and I. Is that enough for you to prove the guy has no scruples whatsoever?
There is no way IMO that this demo can be anything other than a dog and pony show. You just do not dump a machine that would answer all the worlds energy needs, revolutionize space travel and exploration, all because the damn thing has a few control problems. But that is just what he did, which means he had nothing, and has nothing now with the QX. And anyway, didn't Fabiani supposedly fix those control problems? No, Rossi can not have anything. That simple.
If it turns out this QX is what he claims it is, then it will be one of the craziest R/D stories ever. If so, I will not offer any apologies, eat crow or any of that stuff, as Rossi has done enough bad to deserve all the condemnation he has gotten.
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It must be really important to make it look like Rossi is still a fraud even if it looks like success to everyone attending. But then again. This is the way it has been for more than six years now. Almost everyone actually seeing a demo live is positive to the tech and only the armchair players cry fraud... It certainly tells me a lot.
Siffer, I suspect that even if ROSSI let you in on all the details of his con, you'd still think he had something. To you, such a story would be to protect his IP or some similar idiocy. Incidentally, "everyone seeing a demo [I assume you mean everyone who HAS SEEN a demo]... is positive" is categorically wrong. Even a credulous individual with not an ounce of skepticism like Lewan said that he was unsure without better testing. So did Essen. And all the Swedish scientists said was that they observed something anomalous. They didn't say what. They recommended more research. Only a very few hard headed and gullible internet pundits still seem to be absolutely certain that Rossi has the goods. Most other long time observers have SERIOUS doubts.
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who do you think contribute more to advancing lenr cause: stupid gullible optimists or paranoid pessimists?
Great question Max! But it isn't the right one! It's one of those "compound questions" where the premise assumes the conclusion. You might make a good trial attorney. They ask questions like that and of course, if the opposing attorney is good, they object. What advances LENR (or ANY) research is honest and well intentioned researchers with open minds but who test their assumptions and their results with a critical mind and with the best of scientific method. We need people like that in all fields and I am all for them, including in LENR.
Rossi is as clearly not one of those people as it is clear the sun rises every day. I could review his history for you and all the sh*t he has done but then you probably know it already. We don't need stupid gullible anythings and we don't need paranoid people. We need sober, clear thinking people who will do the right experiments, do them carefully, write them up clearly and as simply as possible, and then who will respond to legitimate questions and critiques. We also need people who ask the probing question, especially when extravagant claims for high power and energy production are made without very sound support and reliable evidence. All the more so if the claimant is asking for money.
I don't see that all that much in LENR either current or past.
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I hope they walk out in protest
I wish the same.
Think about what you said. You should be ashamed.
Almost all the comments here are negative, almost all om ECW are positive.
Birds of a feather...
