Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

    • Official Post
    Quote from axil

    There will be a ton of accusations about such things as wet steam, hidden wires, wireless power transfer, high frequency power determination, and so on after the demo is completed. Will your attention to these type SCAM issues be such that you can assure the public that the detractors of this demo will be properly countered or supported?


    We'll have to see. I'm sure that in the (admittedly unlikely) event of this being a perfectly open, transparent and comprehensive demo of the Q-X that proves it works, then there will be those who will think of a totally novel reason why it is all nonsense. I'm well aware that whatever I say - good or bad -I'm on a hiding to nothing. So be it, that's the way it rolls sometimes.

    Quote from ZenoOfElea

    As Adrian says - it is true that the fact he has notproduced a product to market does not prove he does not have one. But it doesnot prove anything, it is not proof of any kind.

    The converse is that if the November demo proves that the E-Cat QX works, it is a good bet that some of the previous E-Cats did too. It is unlikely that Rossi would have worked as long and a hard as he has if he had never obtained positive results.

    Quote from Roger

    Technofascism is exactly what it sounds like: entrenched industrial and financial interests profiteering from commercialized products, who socially engineer the dominance and ongoing commercialization of their products, and prevent the emergence of competition, through coercion (hence the "pathoskepticism"). Most of the time, it's stealthy ("you don't want to lose your lab budget, do you?"), but sometimes people die (eg. Eugene Mallove).

    Mallove's death had nothing to do with technology, politics, or his involvement with cold fusion.

    Quote from kirkshanahan

    hus I repeat, it isn't a good idea to quote Krivit uncritically.

    I read that the ITER organization has now corrected at least some of the things Krivit pointed out. I haven't seen the actual changes yet.

    Some people say Rossi didn't lie about his robotic factories. So what is this below? (my emphasis) from the misnamed blog JONP?



    That was 2012 for cripes' sake. Wow. those certificators are slower than the rob-sots! Competent authorities gave a green light? What authorities? Is this anything other than a complete, total, unmitigated bunch of fabricated lies?

    Quote

    It is unlikely that Rossi would have worked as long and a hard as he has if he had never obtained positive results.

    No it's not. Con men work too! As long as they see that they may be paid.


    Quote

    You stated Rossi had OFTEN claimed the FACTORY was a magnificence.

    He never said that. You are simply wrong. Not a question of interpretation.

    Hey @Adrian Ashfield , see above post for what Rossi for sure wrote which is a pack of misleading lies about a "robotic" factory and "certificators" (WTF are those anyway? Any idea?) and "competent authorities"?) If the authorities were truly competent, Rossi would be in prison. AGAIN.

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    You stated Rossi had OFTEN claimed the FACTORY was a magnificence.

    He never said that. You are simply wrong. Not a question of interpretation.

    Alas Adrian, we can waive hands all you like.


    On post 1300 I made 8 very distinct points, and asked that you provide your logic on how you support Rossi on all of them.

    So far your only counter is that I was making a mistake on one point, that Rossi called his Robotic factory a magnficense. I posted several direct links to Rossi's own blog where he is bragging about or stating that his factories not only exist, but will be producing eCats within a short period of time. Not only stating but promising! Some of these claims going back to 2011.


    Now you are only pointing to that one of these posts have the exact working that Rossi called the robotic factory a "magnificence". That is your only counter point? That is what you base your trust in Rossi on?

    That is incredulous. You pick at one very minor word (which is still true by the way) and ignore the forest of real issues!


    However, Rossi DID call his robotic factory a magnificence at one time, and I will try to search it out for you since you do not seem to remember. But what difference will it make? Your counter argument is meaningless and off the point. I gave several direct statements from Rossi himself. No words from critics, Not accusations from big oil. Not derives comments from academia. But words and promises from Rossi himself. Yet you refuse to consider those and as a defense, make a feeble attempt side step the real issue by stating I misquoted a single word.


    Please make a point by point rebuttal of the direct issues I listed about Rossi's own statements. Either you have evidence that they are incorrect or your logic towards Rossi is flawed. Remember, all of those points are backed up either by Rossi's own sworn testimony in the court proceedings or by his own posts on JONP. I am not relying on any skeptics or other source, but Rossi's own words.


    I ask what do you base your firm support for Rossi upon?

    Quote

    There will be a ton of accusations about such things as wet steam, hidden wires, wireless power transfer, high frequency power determination, and so on after the demo is completed. Will your attention to these type SCAM issues be such that you can assure the public that the detractors of this demo will be properly countered or supported?

    axil Strange that Rossi and Levi and the Swedish scientists NEVER responded to all those very probable allegations, don't you think, Axil? In fact they never responded to any critique of their work at all. That is confidence inspiring to you perhaps?

    Quote

    I don't think a demo will prove anything definitive. Test driving a new Ferrari is great fun but it doesn't prove it won't overheat in traffic or reliably start on a cold wet morning. But how could somebody from this place not go to see what's cooking- this is LENR-Forum after all.

    Alan Smith Classical believer argument, Alan. Sort of like the silly arguments comparing Rossi and the ecats with the Wright Brothers and their airplanes. You can get into a Ferrari, start it, drive it, watch the speedometer wind up, hear the engine roar, and you know it is a real car-- a working transportation device. All that has ever been seen about ecats is a bunch of data, collected under highly suspicious conditions, by mostly incompetent or indiscriminate people who badly wanted to believe Rossi. Also Rossi was deeply involved in each such experiment. The proper parallel is if you believed the specs about a Ferrari from a bunch of test reports Ferrari gave you and you had never seen the car run, much less driven it or had a ride in one. And the Ferrari people had lied to you for years, had never allowed the car to be tested by, for example, Car and Driver or Edmunds, and it had never actually been seen to have been driven on a road by anyone other than Ferrari staff and their friends.


    The demos are not intended to "prove anything definite" but good demos will strongly suggest that the device really works and is being properly tested. And if flaws in the method of testing in the demo are discovered, legitimate inventors will redo the demo with the flaws corrected. And the device will eventually find its way to a testing organization that the public can rely upon which is well known for testing that type of device. NONE of this has happened in more than SIX years of Rossi's lies, games, fiascos and charades.


    Don't get me wrong, I am happy you are going, Alan, though I would have preferred someone with a bit more of a critical approach-- the sort of person Rossi (wisely for him) never invites.

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    You stated Rossi had OFTEN claimed the FACTORY was a magnificence.

    He never said that. You are simply wrong. Not a question of interpretation.

    Ok Adrian, my memory is fairly good and I do not lie down easily. :)


    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-…10&cpage=2#comment-734612


    "The past three days have been holidays for most, but for us have been a tremendous period of work during which we made a historic page for what concerns our tech: for the first time, an E-Cat module, entirely produced by our USA Partner in the new factory ( a magnificence)," Rossi's own words, you can check it yourself and JONP link!


    I was not wrong. You are correct however, it is not a question of interpretation!


    Should I search for more?


    Still waiting for your point by point response of the original list! :thumbup:

    Yeah, I was going to cite that one too, Bob. I have dozens of misleading quotes from Rossi in a text file and many are simply outrageous lies. And how quickly people forget that Rossi's customer for the IH test was him and his attorney and that the company he suggested was Johnson Matthey (JM) was a shell he set up to promote his lies. What about that, believers in Rossi? Did any of you follow the deposition transcripts in the case Rossi vs IH?

    • Official Post
    Quote from maryyugo

    Classical believer argument, Alan.


    That is not an argument Mary, and nothing to do with belief. it is a simple statement of fact about the impossibility of knowing all about something (or someone) on the basis of a short acquaintance, like a blind date, a test drive or a demo lasting a few hours and as it now seems there will be as many 70 people * in attendance, quite crowded.



    * So much for nobody wanting to go;).

    Quote from maryyugo

    No it's not. Con men work too! As long as they see that they may be paid.

    Years ago I read somewhere that some low level hoods and drug dealers work long hours at what turns out to be minimum wage or less. Crime doesn't always pay. The wages of sin are low.


    Generally speaking, low level hoodlums and frauds are stupid. If they were smarter or better educated, they would probably have honest jobs. There are also highly successful criminals. There are well educated ones running Wall Street investment firms, banks, and other large institutions. Theodore Roosevelt described them:


    "A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car; but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad."

    Quote from axil

    Anyone concerned about fraud in nuclear energy development should consider the NIF where the fraud level runs into the billions and counting.

    It does look like ITER is what Dr. Bussard described as a "Cathedral to Science." Lifelong employment for some hundred(s) of scientists to build something that may produce as much energy as it takes to run it. Meanwhile not leaving enough money to fund small cheaper alternatives like the Polywell or indeed LENR.

    I am hoping the demo won't have obvious flaws such as:


    - questions about quality of the steam

    - voltage being measured on a resistance and not on the reactor


    A good demo is one where, assuming Rossi is honest, we are mostly satisfied by the setup and intrigued enough by the results.


    I am moderately hopeful, because Rossi has said that he won't be using steam this time. I am however concerned that we will have something similar to the latest paper, where we had to assume that voltage(reactor)~0

    Quote from Bob

    Ok Adrian, my memory is fairly good and I do not lie down easily.

    My mistake. I see I did misquote you. Your actual quotation was ""robotic factories" that ARE a "magnificence."

    Of course, Rossi did not say that either. I was sufficiently tired of the topic I just paraphrased it and didn't bother look it up.

    Not that even altering the meaning of a quote seems to mean much to you.

    a good demo of a self sustaining device is to put it on a glass table totally disconnected from anything. But my bet is it will never happen. It will likely have wires to some mystery box, or fluid flow from somewhere else, some wires claimed to control it and require some Rossi intervention,.....

    Learn from the ITER COP claims- you have to include everything.


    If it is truly self sustaining, then just disconnect it from anything else and put it on a glass table under the "great dome" of MIT's rotunda for a few months. You would get all the info/reviews you needed and if it was successful, Rossi would get all the business offers he would ever need.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Bob

    I believe he is giving this demo for two reasons:

    1) Perhaps mainly, he is a obsessed with attention and praise. His early statements about giving to kids with cancer, then a period about God and then the snakes and puppets. His language was always one that

    attempted to garner sympathy and praise. His continual posting on his own blog, where he censors everything but positive posts is indicative he may be addicted to attention.


    2) He is attempting to obtain another investor, who he wants to give him money without real due diligence. Just as Eric has stated, it has worked with BLP... hey, why reinvent the wheel so to speak.


    Looks like we have at least one investor interested:


    http://www.ecat-ilnuovofuoco.i…ference-con-andrea-rossi/


    Hello everybody.


    I would like to thank Andrea Rossi publicly for giving me the opportunity to be a moderator for a debate in Italian that will meet him in Skype video conferencing - and exclusively for Italy - to anyone who wants to ask him questions right after the conclusion of the public test of the QuarkX reactor , to be held on November 24th.


    In order to be able to participate in the web conference, it is compulsory to subscribe to my blog newsletter by specifying First Name, Last Name, and Email Address to which you will be contacted later for the Residual Data (Profession and Skype Contact). Alternatively, you can provide the same 5 data via email, sending them to [email protected] .

    Up to 24 people will be accepted, so - even receiving all the required data - we can not guarantee the inclusion of the conference call participants list. You will also be informed that the debate will be recorded.


    Hoping that the thing is welcome, I greet my readers.


    Vessela

    2 comments


    (Name edited out) November 8, 201714:07Reply

    I would like to attend the conference as a consultant for an investment company

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