Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Quote from JedRothwell

Economic breakeven. Outputting power at a cost that is reasonably competitive with other sources of energy.

This is a VERY complicated issue. Beware of jumping to conclusions or mass-media simplifications. You cannot just look at the cost per megawatt-hour of electricity to compare technologies. Other issues include:

Availability. In Crozet, VA, the power company has a 1-MW Diesel generator in the middle of nowhere. I asked the power company about it. Based on the fuel costs and specs., anyone can see that costs more than other power company generators. However, it is used to meet peak demand a few hours at a time. It is quite cost effective for that purpose, because the equipment is so cheap.

Scale. The most expensive sources of electricity are pacemaker and hearing aid batteries. I suppose they must cost millions of dollars per megawatt hour, but people are happy to pay that much.

Expenses not accounted for; externalities. Smoke from coal fired power plants kills roughly 20,000 Americans per year, and makes life miserable for millions. I drove near a power plant in Georgia during an inversion a few years ago. It was like a thick fog, only it stank. I had to turn on the headlights. It enveloped towns, farms and schools for mile after mile. This smoke could easily be eliminated with scrubbers, but that would raise the cost of electricity by a few cents per kilowatt hour, and make coal uncompetitive.

Nothing will be done about this, because the people being killed and the children choking in the schools are poor, rural, conservative people who do not file lawsuits, and who seldom vote. Or they vote for the GOP, which advocates coal. They are voting to ruin their families' health and end their lives prematurely, with no benefit to themselves, because no coal is mined in Georgia.

If the airline industry were to crash airplanes killing 20,000 middle class people, or if MacDonald's were to kill 20,000 customers with food poisoning, these companies would be put out of business within days. But the power companies are careful to kill only poor people, and have been doing this since the 19th century, so they will not be held accountable.

Quote from maryyugo

axil Strange that Rossi and Levi and the Swedish scientists NEVER responded to all those very probable allegations, don't you think, Axil? In fact they never responded to any critique of their work at all. That is confidence inspiring to you perhaps?

There is a number of ways and reasons why criticism is produced. One is constructive criticism where the critic intends to help the experimenter, and then there is the kind of "got ya" criticism that you produce intended to destroy the experimenter. Over the years experience has shown that responding to this got ya criticism is a waste of time; a no win situation. So it is understandable why cooperation involving that type of criticism is not now or ever to be expected. This also includes responding to your posts. I strongly suspect that this response is a waste of time.

Quote from maryyugo

Anyone know if this "demo" will be live streamed and if so how to view it?

1. Albert Ellul November 8, 2017 at 7:46 AM

   DEar Andrea Rossi,

   Congratulations on your achievements so far.

   Is there a link available for viewing the demo online and in real time when the demo is in progress?

2. Andrea Rossi November 8, 2017 at 8:16 AM

   Albert Ellul:

   
   No, the streaming will be delayed several hours.

   
   Thank you for your attention to our work,

   
   Warm Regards,

   
   A.R.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

What flaws?

If you had been following the subject you would know the calorimetry does not involve steam.

What is wrong with measuring the voltage across a known resistor? Apparently the reactor has close to zero resistance. Measuring the power going into the controller would be a good idea, but that's not what you said.

Do you what is the nature of its output - electrical power, light, heat, mechanical?

You speak of resistance of the device and a controller- since he claims the device is self sustaining, how is the output converted for their inputs to keep it running without external input of power?

"But the power companies are careful to kill only poor people, and have been doing this since the 19th century, so they will not be held accountable"

The footprint of 20th century environmental destruction(externalities?) in the cause of cheap energy is larger than in the 19th century

" Radiation monitoring training activities were also performed with CFJ (Citizens for Justice) and the local communities in Kayelekera. CRIIRAD discovered hot spots in the environment of the mine and a high uranium concentration in the water flowing from a stream located below the open pit and entering the SERE river. Results that relate to the radiological monitoring of the environment performed by the company are kept secret."

https://antinuclear.net/2017/1…ronmental-mess-in-malawi/

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

I don't understand your last sentence. I think the answer is that it isn't.

The bottom line on all this dialog is the desire to destroy Rossi and his technology using every possible verbal mechanism that ingenuity can produce. The unspoken motive is most probably based on personal money or ego issues. It is illogical to assume that the reason for opposition to Rossi and his technology is related to concern for protecting others from imprudent investment in Rossi's tech. I predict that the number of trolls that join the dialog will expand by orders of magnitude here as time and Rossi's progress advances.

This brings to mind and asserts how personal greed, animus, distruction, and jealous...the seven deadly cardinal sins... produces pain and misfortune that runs rampant in this world. The goal of the sons of perdition is clear to see as witnessed by their method and results.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

What flaws?

If you had been following the subject you would know the calorimetry does not involve steam.

What is wrong with measuring the voltage across a known resistor? Apparently the reactor has close to zero resistance. Measuring the power going into the controller would be a good idea, but that's not what you said.

If you had read the post you replied to, you would see that I know it won't involve steam - that's a good thing.

Nothing wrong with measuring V across the resistor. But that's not enough to measure input power.

The reactor having zero resistance is not "apparent" to me. It will be apparent if Rossi plugs a voltmeter across it.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

You are missing a vital word in the first sentence,

Rossi has stated this demo will be only of total heat.

I haven't seen figures for how long the E-Cat QX can run in self sustain mode. That fact that it does for at least part of the time helps the high COP.

I spoke of measuring the voltage across a known resistor and measuring the power into the controller. The resistance of the reactor is not known except that it is very low.

I don't understand your last sentence. I think the answer is that it isn't.

Adrian,

Rossi is up a creek with no paddle on this one. What he wrote in the TWO research papers is just wrong, the "low resistance" excuse came after much ECW worry and request for post-hoc justifications. And the resistance across the reactor is not known that is Rossi (as often he does) misleading. Very low is vague, unless it is quantified with a definite limit, in which case we would not say unknown, but known to a given precision.

Quote from interested observer

I have a full-page ad from Life Scientific American magazine from the 1950s featuring 16 medical doctors fusionists extolling the health energy benefits of smoking burning Camel cigarettes hydrogen gas. These doctors knew MUCH more about medical physical matters than you and I do. Nevertheless, they were idiots. It is quite easy to find smart people who believe stupid things. It is especially useful when the stupid things they believe are what you yourself want to believe.

Another FTFY with the original image (Scientific American Oct 1958)

Quote from axil

The bottom line on all this dialog is the desire to destroy Rossi and his technology using every possible verbal mechanism that ingenuity can produce.

Nonsense. It takes no ingenuity to point out that 1 MW of heat in an enclosed warehouse will kill everyone. It takes no ingenuity to point to photos of the warehouse and the equipment that prove there was no mezzanine heater, and that the tank and pipes were open to the atmosphere. Anyone can see that at a glance. These and other easily verified facts prove beyond doubt that Rossi is a fraud. That is why you refuse to look at any of the reports, photos, and other proof.

Quote from axil

The unspoken motive is most probably based on personal money or ego issues.

Perhaps you should tell us what motivates you to --

Defend indefensible criminal fraud.

Refuse to examine the evidence.

Refuse to respond to any technical issues, no matter how clear cut, such as the fact that 1 MW of heat in an enclosed room kills people.

I have no idea what your motive may be, but your actions do not make you look good. You are defending criminal activities. You have said that Rossi was justified in committing fraud, because it prevented I.H. from stealing from him. That makes no sense; all the fraud in the world would not stop them from stealing, if that's what they were up to. Perhaps you should refrain from accusing others of base motives. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

JulianBianchi: You equate saying that fusion power would be a good thing to saying cigarettes are good for you? I know that fusion is "the enemy" for LENR cult members, but get real. It is one thing to argue that too much money is spent on it without tangible results. I wouldn't really argue against that position. It is quite another thing to imply that success would be a bad thing. But that sort of thinking is why I said "cult members". Because some of the ideas that are prevalent in this community can only be the product of mass delusion. And don't go off on another specious analogy. I don't think a single skeptic here is "against LENR". It would be terrific if it turns out to be a real and useful phenomenon. Anyone rooting against it is an idiot. If you want to pretend skeptics are idiots, knock yourself out.

interested observer wrote:"I know that fusion is "the enemy" for LENR cult members,"

Cool off a little.

You might need to distinguish between cold fusion, warm fusion and hot fusion.

LENR may involve both fission and fusion