Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    Why would there be [a heat exchanger in the schematics]? Penon's jurisdiction did not extend to where that was.

    There should have been one because without it, the claims are impossible. The reactor would have killed everyone if the claims were true.


    A heat exchanger was thus an essential part of the calorimetry. The heat exchanger was not in the schematic because it did not exist. Rossi acknowledged that an exchanger was necessary for the claims to be true. He acknowledged this when he lied about having an exchanger in the mezzanine. There was no such thing. It did not show up in photos, and people who went to the mezzanine saw no trace of it. (See the Smith reports below.) It was one of Rossi's many, many outrageous lies.


    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    Yes. I thought the conclusions were sound.


    Then, as I said before, you are grossly incompetent. You are incapable of understanding junior high school level physics described by Smith in his two reports.


    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…/01/0194.01_Exhibit-1.pdf


    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…7/01/252-05-Exhibit-E.pdf


    These reports show that the conclusions in the Penon report are completely beyond the pale. No one with any knowledge of elementary physics or heat would believe this report were he not in thrall of Rossi, and blind to Rossi's lies.

    From the first PDF expert report Jed Rothwell supplied:


    Quote

    The huge and unverified assumption built into this equation is that the flow out of the ECat
    is 100% quality steam. This equation, while technically correct, is not valid if the system is
    flowing water not steam. Again, there is absolutely no way of knowing exactly what is exiting
    the E-Cat.


    Oh, how funny! I missed this before. Same lame trick Rossi pulled on his 2011 visitors where the tube for the exhaust of steam was stuck in a hole in the wall (really!) or in a bucket and Rossi tweaked the heaters by hand when he wanted the water in the ecat to make noise and more steam to come out. That was shown in the classic deer in the headlights video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?…er_embedded&v=uviXoafHWrU


    And the second expert said essentially the same thing. But can you imagine explaining those reports or their contents to a lay jury? What a nightmare that would be. No wonder IH decided to settle as long as they could pay Rossi nothing and return his proven worthless so-called IP.

    Quote

    It is the author’s opinion that the water flow numbers found in Mr. Penon’s report were not generated
    by condensate returning from the black box. The alleged steam and condensate system was in reality
    a hot water flow circuit using the Grundfos pump to circulate the water through the piping and the
    water meter. Because of this, any “steam” flow numbers in the Penon report are fictitious and the
    whole report must be invalidated.


    Quote from JedRothwell

    Then, as I said before, you are grossly incompetent. You are incapable of understanding junior high school level physics described by Smith in his two reports.


    Wasn't Smith that moron who translated "dosierleistung" with "maximum flow" and f***ed up all his calculations? Seems competent...

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    I might have done things a little differently, but without engineering drawings or actually seeing the site I don't know what. Seems to me any errors by Penon were not enough to falsify the final conclusion that the COP >6, required to pass the test.


    What nonsense... Its steam, flowing through a pipe! How would you measure that? Simple question.

    Quote from maryyugo

    And the second expert said essentially the same thing.

    The second report is by the same guy, Smith. Maybe you mean the Murray report?


    The second report repeats some of the points from the first report, with additional detail, plus it has new information.

    Quote from maryyugo

    But can you imagine explaining those reports or their contents to a lay jury? What a nightmare that would be. No wonder IH decided to settle as long as they could pay Rossi nothing and return his proven worthless so-called IP.

    Yes. I read Rossi's lawyer's opening statement at Abd's site. It made my blood run cold. I thought "this might fool an uneducated jury." If I were I.H., I too would have agreed to call off the trial. It is a shame Rossi did not get his comeuppance but even if I.H. had won I doubt Rossi would have paid.


    (Abd's link to the "Opening Statements" does not work.)

    And why the heck was the pulse sending unit, (standard on the type of type of water meter specified in the test protocol), not used? It pulses once every 100 L in the standard configuration. This would be a simple cross-check of the reported 36000 L (nominal) flow per day, as well as simplifying the identification of down times. A pulse every 4 minutes on the good days, on average.

    @MY

    "Same lame trick Rossi pulled on his 2011 visitors where the tube for the exhaust of steam was stuck in a hole in the wall (really!) and Rossi tweaked the heaters by hand when he wanted the water in the ecat to make noise and more steam to come out."


    Let's wait for the DEMO and what it will show (or not show)

    (btw: Rossi calls it also "test" sometimes on JONP, but who cares....)


    The videos taken by S. Krivit and the other one by M. Lewan are very special, 'cause you can see Rossi and his "tech" acting.

    On the other hand, there are only posts in fora and insulting, ranting and desinformation.

    From these two videos, everybody with a basic education in electric/electronics and HVAC, can make his own mind up.

    The "pacemaker"-docs are also interesting, but the videos give a real good impression -> the master in action.

    So, I'm eager to see him again, in the DPS :)

    Show must go on ...

    Quote

    The second report is by the same guy, Smith. Maybe you mean the Murray report?

    Thanks.


    Quote

    It is a shame Rossi did not get his comeuppance but even if I.H. had won I doubt Rossi would have paid.

    I believe you can take property if a civil judgement goes unpaid. For example, the only thing O. J. Simpson can profit from these days is his NFL pension because pension (and maybe a few other things, are our transient attorneys around?) are exempt. I am pretty sure Rossi's income producing or investment condos would be fair game to seize. I don't know about whether his residence would be subject to seizure.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Actually so. Sagan coined that particular phrase. As I said in the paragraph I wrote, Laplace expressed a different formulation which I agree with.


    So according to your logic, if I make the following statement: "You should treat others the way you'd like to be treated.", I am being original and unique and I can claim the statement as my own...


    ROFL


    P.S. I call it the "Palladium Rule"

    Quote from kirkshanahan

    So according to your logic, if I make the following statement: "You should treat others the way you'd like to be treated.", I am being original and unique and I can claim the statement as my own...


    ROFL

    I suggest you get off the floor and read what Melich & I wrote. What Laplace said was quite different from what Sagan said. We agreed with Laplace but disagreed with Sagan. Why is that funny?

    Well, we have another ten days of flailing away at the intrepid band of Rossifarians who have already demonstrated their unshakable ability to ignore all facts. Is anyone expecting that to change? There are some differences among the troops. Only Axil is declaring that the event will be world-changing. Most of the others are advising for patience and the ever-popular "let's forget about all the sins of the past and just see what happens" strategy. I suppose that IHFanboy would still describe himself as "on the fence", which is accurate in the same sense as Baltimore is at the Canadian border.


    Anyway, ten days to go.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    And why the heck was the pulse sending unit, (standard on the type of type of water meter specified in the test protocol), not used? It pulses once every 100 L in the standard configuration.

    That would be an improvement but the results would still be meaningless. As you see from the schematic and photos, the meter was mostly out of the water, in a mostly-empty gravity return pipe. The manual for this meter warns not to install it that way. That's what Murray said and there is no doubt it is true. Sadly, it upset Peter Gluck to no end to hear that . . . but facts are facts.


    Having it pulse every ~40 minutes is ridiculous.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    He must have read the manual.


    The manual was contradictory and said minimum elsewhere. That is why a same pump was purchased and tested. Though the tests are not complete, one can extrapolate the data Alan F. has collected out to a pump rate that would closely match that claimed by Rossi. For those who care, go to the thread where we are tracking the tests and read my commentary in light of the data that we have so far.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Then, as I said before, you are grossly incompetent. You are incapable of understanding junior high school level physics described by Smith in his two reports.


    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…/01/0194.01_Exhibit-1.pdf

    Smith hasn’t even seen the plant.

    There are four laws of thermodynamics, not two as Smith states.

    The first 9 pages are pure textbook waffle.

    He must think he is being paid by the word count.

    On page 11 Smith makes a big deal that the numbers are rounded off. So what?

    Smith writes: “The column entitled “steam T min (Celsius) is the measured temperature of the fluid leaving the E-Cat (This author has used fluid instead of steam intentionally.” (!)

    “To use “COP” as a measure of the efficiency of a heat producing device (the E-Cat), as opposed to a work absorbing device (an air conditioner), is a misapplication of the term. “ So nobody here understands what COP means?


    Page 13 more waffle

    Smith:“The measurement equipment has been placed and operates in a manner that is not necessary to study the client’s use of the energy produced or even inquire about such use. ” This is not correct.” Rubbish!

    “The point is that the E-Cat “system” could just as easily have been flowing water as steam. “ Right . forget it is >100 C.

    Page 15. Convert the E-Cat output to “boiler power” Why?

    Pagge 16. Speculation of the heat exchanger that he hasn’t seen.

    More pages of textbook & speculation.

    Conclusions

    1. The Penon reports, standing alone, are not vali

    d to tabulate and compute the performance

    of the E-Cat. The data are suspect and the methodology is not explained.

    2.

    The E-Cat test setup was not properly instru

    mented and there was no measurement of the

    E-Cat’s actual output.

    3.

    The E-Cat never produced the energy which wa

    s claimed for it. This energy had to be

    rejected somewhere, and this

    analysis has shown, by the pro

    cess of elimination, that the

    claimed energy never existed.

    I have seldom seen such verbal diarrhea & endless waffle. He has proved nothing.

    I won’t forgive you Jed for making me waste so much time reading this rubbish. You should stick to programming and Japanese and leave the engineering to others.

    IH Fanboy ,

    Using an expensive METERING pump out of specification and as a overly complicated flow restrictor is just silly. That is why they don't publish the specifications for the pump when it is operated out of specification. And the tests, to date, do not indicate that double the flow rate is at all likely.

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    Smith hasn’t even seen the plant.

    Yes, he has. His second report includes photos that he took, and his description of his tour of the plant. Such as this comment, which I find hilarious:


    "The only access to the mezzanine is a rickety wooden stairs, which the attorneys made this author climb first (load test) before they would use it. . . ."


    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    “The point is that the E-Cat “system” could just as easily have been flowing water as steam. “ Right . forget it is >100 C.

    That would take 4 psi:


    https://durathermfluids.com/pd…ressure-boiling-point.pdf


    Do you understand how pressure cookers work?


    Frankly, your comment is appalling. If you do not understand how water might be liquid at a temperature exceeding 100 deg C, then not only are you incapable of doing junior high level physics, you do not even understand grade school level physics. The fact that water remains liquid under pressure is taught around the fourth grade.

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