Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Alainco - are you referencing LENR believers / deniers or knowers of the truth / R suckers?

I know I came into this with knowledge of what Pons and Fleischman did and how the scientific community treated them and was hoping for it all to be real. It didn't take terribly long to see Rossi had nothing but I kept hoping. These days anybody who uses his examples for LENR and tries to replicate him is going to head down a very frustrating rabbit hole.

Quote from THHuxleynew

I can see this theory, that Rossi deliberately makes his tests look bad to avoid competition, is the only rational way you can hold these views.

Director is using a faux-balanced style of argumentation that reminds me of IH Fanboy. He teases out tiny nuggets of uncertainty which are portrayed as arguments in favour of his position while ignoring a much larger mass of contrary evidence. Someone using this style can maintain a self-image as an objective seeker of truth who doesn't shirk from the facts whereas in reality the thumb is on the scale all along.

An interesting thing happens when these people encounter particularly clear evidence that contradicts their position. They refuse to engage with it, or they even disappear. This is what happened when I drew IH Fanboy's attention to Steven Krivit's 2011 video showing Mr Rossi demonstrating his ecat. That video contains a complete enough record of the ecat output that there can be no doubt that Mr Rossi's claims for it (COP = 6) are complete nonsense. After I drew IH Fanboy's attention to this we went back and forth a couple of times and then finally said he might potentially agree with me. But if you now search for IH Fanboy's activity on this site you will find that that was the last thing he said on this site. We have not heard from him since. I assume that IH Fanboy's radical response to the video was because it brought his public image as someone who is unafraid of unpleasant truths into conflict with his internal need to support Rossi. Others have also disappeared when confronted with the Krivit video. Engineer48 disappeared for about 6 months on ECat World just after I had him look closely at the video. Yet others simply refuse to engage ... Adrian Ashford simply wouldn't respond on this topic on ECW and "Tony", on this site, tied himself into argumentative pretzels trying not to engage with it. In all these cases I would argue that, to act as they did, all these people realized at some point that the Krivit video contains persuasive evidence that Rossi's claims at the time were empty and sought to hide this realization. So the video has become a sort of litmus test of whether people really are arguing in good faith or not.

It all makes me wonder what Director would make of the Krivit video. Director claims that it is against Rossi's mindset to allow rock solid evidence to emerge as to the functional reality of his ecat generator. But does this really extend to providing rock solid evidence against it? I think not. And in any case such an attitude is belied by Rossi's extremely angry response to Krivit's release of the video and subsequent pointing out of how it made nonsense of what Rossi was claiming.

@Director. Have you seen the Krivit video? What do you make of it?

I simply wait for a system to be unplugged from the wall and lighting a light (or other load) for an extended time.

And unplugged means everything including instruments.

Quote from snoopy

oldguy

Makes sense! After all, any system that produces. for example, 6X more heat than it requires to keep it running, should not require external heat once it's started. One might have to allow a nominal electrical input for control circuits so the inventor can not claim, like Papp did, that removing control power will cause an explosion. It should not be a problem to measure the power in. In oldguy's test, that measurement would be done by someone other than the inventor, using their own instruments. "Indipendently" as Rossi is fond of writing.

snoopy,

As I have written on multiple sites re:Ecat,

Run the entire system on a marine battery.

The power and energy density are well know understood and way to measure.

When the battery dies, the experiment should die also.

Rossi will NEVER agree to this, (he has been asked), obviously, because the Ecat Test would fail

Quote from snoopy

@Director  Bruce__H

Is this the Krivit video we are talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?…er_embedded&v=uviXoafHWrU It's amusing, is it not? If that is not the one, please link the one you mean.

No. This one

If you search for IH Fanboy's last post you will be led to our discussion and, separately, there is a thread on this site about the video.

SCNR!

Careful there bang99. Director and Axil have free rein to discuss god-knows-what at great length while others get banned for sarcasm.

@Director, please stop telling people who belongs here and how they should behave. You are barely suffered, and your long posts, combative style and unqualified assertions are an imposition on people here.

Quote from Bruce__H

An interesting thing happens when these people encounter particularly clear evidence that contradicts their position. They refuse to engage with it, or they even disappear. This is what happened when I drew IH Fanboy's attention to Steven Krivit's 2011 video showing Mr Rossi demonstrating his ecat.

I confess I have not looked closely at the video. However, I felt that the Penon report was indisputable proof that the 1-year test was a failure, a fraud and a farce. Frankly, I was surprised that any supporters were left after the report came out.

I gather Rossi has posted the report to his website. So I guess it is his best evidence in favor of his own claims. In this discussion, someone said that Rossi complained about the video. He did not complain about the Penon report; he featured it. He promoted it.

Axil and some others finessed the problems with the Penon report by refusing to read it. I guess that is a way of "refusing to engage." This is how some leading anti-cold fusion figures such as Robert Park deal with the evidence: they refuse to look at it. Park told me he is so sure the claims are impossible and fraudulent, and that fact is so obvious, it is not worth his time to read the reports. You might say this is a method of "engaging." Park makes a definite assertion.

It seems to me that a Rossi supporter who says: "I read the Penon report and I see nothing wrong with it. I am still sure the claims are real" is intellectually honest. We can judge this person's abilities. We know where he stands. Whereas, a Rossi supporter such as Axil, who refuses to even look at the best evidence presented by Rossi himself, is less intellectually honest. I think he is being evasive.

Quote from Director

I'd call it being obnoxious and useless. This is an LENR forum - try to contribute something practical that could help replicators (thoughts, advice, links, ideas, papers, etc) or at least don't disrupt the forum with child like behavior. If you are at a business meeting discussing ideas to minimize shrink in your business, don't bring up non-sense such as your bosses new car or the new Taco stand outside.

@Director,

Sometimes, confronted with a phenomenon like Rossi + fans, laughter is the sanest response. I don't mean laughter at the fans, but at the absurdity.

Anyway the steam-cat cartoon is genuinely funny.

And the Rossi steam hose meant to have 2 litre/sec vapour-phase steam (invisible, as Rossi sagely points out) emerging from a 10mm dia hoze (that would be a speed of > 20m/s) which did not have this was also quite funny.

Quote from Director

I'd call it being obnoxious and useless. This is an LENR forum - try to contribute something practical that could help replicators (thoughts, advice, links, ideas, papers, etc) or at least don't disrupt the forum with child like behavior. If you are at a business meeting discussing ideas to minimize shrink in your business, don't bring up non-sense such as your bosses new car or the new Taco stand outside.

You mean like bringing up UFOs?