QuoteIf he wont show anything till then everyone will be...[skeptical]
That is what was said by believers in Rossi, two, three, four and five years ago. Why should 2019 or 2020 be different. There are still believers in Steorn, for cripe's sake.
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There is no singular original Rossi reactor to replicate - at least no recorded plans of of one. There were many, many variations. I'm convinced that several versions of the technology had merit and worked. The fact that pseudo-skeptics and others are super eager to jump to your position is sad, but meaningless at this point. The key methods of EVO stimulation for LENR are now out. Rossi has little time to get something on the market before hundreds of competitors show up. If he had taken a more honest and straight forward route - with less manipulation and lies - I think he could have had a basic heater on the sold in Walmart by now. A better choice in partners would also have helped. He needed a company with a real manufacturing structure from the start. But those with inventors syndrome have a very real disease. If Rossi doesn't hurry, he will end up in a situation worse than Patterson. He will wake up with a dozen competitors selling product with him still trying to optimize the QX.
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What matters is how Darden describes what kind of person Rossi is. And it probably is not the same.
Snoopy,
I went back to the preoatom article, and they edited out some major parts about his family turning against him, Petroldragon, the 28 Oct 2011 test, and most importantly, where he admits: "I am a bad person". Darden and he it appears have the same views after all.
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I'm not saying if he ever participated in a scam or not. But someone can lie and be dishonest while still having a very real technology. I could cite a half dozen seemingly crooked things Rossi has done, but none of it means his technology, all of it, is fake.
What bothers me is that there are people in here who despise and hate Rossi so much that they are willing to dismiss his technology all together. I expected this from the pseudoskeptics who are mostly not "real" open minded skeptics but are pushing an agenda, but I did not expect this from some of the people who KNOW that at least during certain tests and demonstrations his technology seemed to work.
That doesn't matter now, though. The basics of Rossi's tech is now revealed. There will be many replications in the months and years to come.
Director,
I would take exception to anyone “knowing”
anything about his tests and demonstrations. His demo’s are only convincing if you believe what you are told to believe.
Also,
I can not think of a single Rossi demonstration that has ever been replicated
Virtually every one is different from the previous, so in that sense, Rossi has never replicated anything. He always moves on to the next new and improved version.
Replicated:
Same Bill of materials
Same build instructions
Same testing protocols and procedures
Same results by multiple trusted sources.
With the above definition, can you tell me of anyone anywhere that has done it?
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I did not expect this from some of the people who KNOW that at least during certain tests and demonstrations his technology seemed to work.
That doesn't matter now, though. The basics of Rossi's tech is now revealed. There will be many replications in the months and years to come.
We can agree with your second statement, if you accept that no credible independent validation (something that will make dollars flow like water from the Amazon) within 12 months means that you are here incorrect.
Your first statement does not support your conclusion. I KNOW that Rossi's tests seemed to work. I can mostly agree with it. I also am reasonably sure, in about 90% of cases, why that semblance was false. In 10% of cases I'm not sure, but there are plausible candidates.
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Snoopy,
I went back to the preoatom article, and they edited out some major parts about his family turning against him, Petroldragon, the 28 Oct 2011 test, and most importantly, where he admits: "I am a bad person". Darden and he it appears have the same views after all.
There is no one that is good. No, not one. I'm certain that there's a Bible verse close to that. Anyone who is honest will openly admit they are a bad person in some way or another. Someone could be a stingy employer while being a good husband or father. Over the years, as we have learned more about Rossi and what he at times can be capable of, I've realized there are some seriously bad aspects of him. Some of them, to borrow a phrase from someone I despise, could be considered even deplorable. But I also think he has good attributes: he is hard working, he is an avid reader, he is very intuitive, he is very often polite (I've heard on a couple occasions he has exploded in rage and profanities), I've read accounts of him treating guests well, and there are probably other good things about him. Of course goodness doesn't wash away badness. For that we must repent and turn away from those acts. But I tend to believe that he has made significant progress in a technology that could change the world. If he gets a product on the market or not is really irrelevant to the big picture, and I'm certain there are going to be a large number of competitors arriving soon. Even if he doesn't make a dime himself or get a single product for sale at Home Depot, I believe he has contributed to the field. For some reason, even if it doesn't make up for any specific acts, I think his impact, overall, has been a net positive.
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Director, just for the record the Bible does call Job a "a good, honest man"... but also says there was none like him.
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Director,
You like Rossi...that is fine by me. Whatever gets us to the finish line fastest, I am for. This is LENR's 29th year, and there seems to be little difference in what is going on now, compared to 1990. Last years ICCF, reads to me just like the first ICCF. Makes me think the field is stagnant, and that they have made little headway in all these years, although NASA and the Japanese seem to be getting it together. But many thought that was about to happen in 1993 also.
You seem to have some good ideas, and you think outside the box. LENR by it's nature is outside the box, so maybe you two were mean't for each other. Maybe you will be the one that makes the conceptual breakthrough. Maybe BG/MFMP. Mills, Russians, BEC...who knows. But like I said, if it takes for you to believe in Rossi, then have at it. But I will continue to point out his deceit, just so any potential investor thinking of partnering with him, will be fully informed.
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Shane,
By all means, please feel free to point out specific nefarious things he has done. I have zero problem with that. When someone lies or manipulates others, it irritates me.
I also think it is a little less than accurate to simply say I like Rossi. There are aspects about his abilities and skills and personality I like. Then there are many characteristics I despise. I especially hate how he did several things at Doral to manipulate IH and the entire cold fusion community. I'll always be ticked off that he told us on the JONP his partner was a company with factories around the world -- implying he had a solid partnership with Johnson Matthey. In reality, he only had a partnership with himself and limited communication with Johnson Matthey. That flat out lie still irks me. Also, I think it is a little less than accurate to say I believe in Rossi. To be frank, I'm FAR more careful about what I believe when it comes to his statements. I know he is less than honest (being generous here) at times. But I do believe in his technology, or at least that at times various devices did indeed work. I believe this not because of simply his claims or his data, but because I finally understand what's going on. As I said before, I prayed to God several months ago for him to provide me an understanding of these systems. I don't claim to have heard his voice or have knowledge from heaven beamed into my head. But I was led to many documents and papers about the work of individuals such as T.H. Moray, E.V. Gray, and several others. Now I realize that although he may have optimized this tech in some ways, the technology is not truly his. There is an amazing puzzle that is mostly together now and is coming together more and more each day.
This isn't just about LENR anymore. It's about the "Plasmoid Paradigm" which connects a wide array of phenomenon from anomalous propulsion technologies (used by AAVs), free energy technologies, and LENR. To be blunt, I understand yet another reason why LENR was suppressed so hard back in 1989. The truth about LENR will lead us to a more complete understanding of reality that stretches from the aether to the structure of galaxies.
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As I said before, I prayed to God several months ago for him to provide me an understanding of these systems. I don't claim to have heard his voice or have knowledge from heaven beamed into my head. But I was led to many documents and papers about the work of individuals such as T.H. Moray, E.V. Gray, and several others.
Crank #1: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Thomas_Henry_Moray
Crank #2: http://free-energy.ws/edwin-gray/
How do you know that it was not Satan that whispered in your ear?
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They were not cranks. They were eccentric as all revolutionary inventors but had very real technologies.
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Let's leave religion for other forums please gentlemen.
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It's important to realize that everyone is susceptible to apophenia to one extent or another. Empiricism comprises a set of approaches for mitigating this universal tendency. Without empiricism, we are left to the mercy of our own fruitful imaginations.
"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."
—almost Mark Twain
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LENR by it's nature is outside the box
Nonsense, Shane. To paraphrase Dawkins writing about alternative medicine in 2003, "There is no alternative science. There is only science that works and science that doesn't."
The claim is that if you combine certain materials and heat them or expose them to electrolysis with specific electrode compositions, you will get an amount of energy out which is so large than it can only be accounted for by postulating that nuclear reactions are occurring. Some claims for LENR also include production of isotopes which were not present in the "fuel". None of that is "outside the box." It may be tricky to measure but measuring it is simply science and engineering. I suppose you can say that claiming to overcome the Coulomb barrier is out of the box but it really isn't because the Farnsworth Fuser and muon-catalyzed fusion clearly are able to do that (though they require far more energy in than out).
So the claim is pretty prosaic. Disagreements are about the nature and level of required proof and whether or not that has been attained. It's simply science.
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Snoopy,
By "outside the box", I mean't LENR was booted out of the mainstream inner sanctum 2-3 months after the FPs news conference. They quickly categorized it as a pseudoscience, and it has been stigmatized ever since. On the outside looking in. No doubt about that IMO.
As to the science working or not, and this being a simple matter of measuring; there are many who are extremely confident that they have done precisely that (measured carefully), and concluded there is something going on. Not your Rossi types who have tainted the field, or the controversial ones like Mills, but solid mainstream electrochemists, qualified garage tinkerers, corporation scientists, university labs, and the like from around the globe. Not to mention Fleischman who was perhaps the best of the best....just his having said he measured excess heat, is in itself a powerful statement.
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It's important to realize that everyone is susceptible to apophenia to one extent or another.
New word, thanks Eric.
And slightly scary too, look at all these ... :
The term (German: Apophänie) was coined by psychiatrist Klaus Conrad in his 1958 publication on the beginning stages of schizophrenia. He defined it as "unmotivated seeing of connections [accompanied by] a specific feeling of abnormal meaningfulness".
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(I believe credit goes to THH for that word. You can't even find it in some dictionaries.)
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Yep. Not everything is connected. As someone once told me, when you always use hammers everything starts looking like a nail. But then, other times, the connections are real. I really love the statement, "you're not paranoid if people really ARE trying to get you." There's an acquaintance of mine who truly is paranoid about everything -- seeing false connections in ordinary life. For example, he may go to a store, see someone lift a cellphone to take a call, and think they are reporting "something" he has done. In reality, there was no connection and he did nothing. But there are people who have made connections, provided evidence, tried to warn others, and have been condemned as paranoid for doing so JUST BEFORE SOMETHING AWFUL HAPPENED. There is a particular case in the news RIGHT NOW that I won't go into because I don't want the ban hammer swung in my direction quite yet.
When it comes to EVOs, I think there are deep connections to a wide array of phenomenon. I'm sure some portion of these connections may prove to be tenuous or non-existent. However, from the evidence I've seen, I think many will hold and be proven.
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Any idea what is Rossi's exit plan this time? Another bloody break up? Hard to tell where that supersonic enginerring is going from duct tape and plumbing parts to robots in 3 month.
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Not to mention Fleischman who was perhaps the best of the best....just his having said he measured excess heat, is in itself a powerful statement.
No, it's not. Working with excellent financial support since 1989 and with a superb partner, F was not able to convince entrepreneurs, major industry, or major academia and the military that his work should be followed up with a large project. "That is in itself a powerful statement." Unfortunately!
