Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • ... I think that his technology has a root core that does indeed work.


    In your view then, which part is described in Rossi's US patent (the one shown on the front page of his blog)? Is it the root core that works? It has to be, doesn't it, for that patent to be valid? After all, if he does not disclose the root core of his invention in the patent then what is he protecting?


    Why hasn't anyone reported excess heat from following the directions in the patent?

  • I'm not saying his patent is valid or not. I really don't care. But I will say that multiple teams have mixed LiAlH4 and Ni and produced what sure does seem like to be some quantity of excess heat. There was a new report published a couple weeks ago. However, the excess heat wasn't huge, but I expect that to be possibly due to a number of factors such as how they didn't purify their LiAlH4, they didn't ball mill it to reduce particle size, they didn't use some quantity of highly pure LiH, they didn't pre-process their nickel, they didn't include various additives, and they didn't provide optimal electromagnetic stimulation to aid in the formation of EVOs.


    I suspect Rossi's true know how was best embodied in his provisional yet abandoned patent applications. I'm guessing they may contain information about low work function additives, production of desireable surface features, and confirmation that plasmoids are generated.

  • I think that a natural expectation of the Rossi fans is for him to patent the QX technology (just as he has claimed to do with previous inventions). But patenting would have required Mr Rossi to divulge his designs. And that can be a problem if you don't actually have any designs! So I see this claim of the QX being impossible to reverse engineer as a dodge that will allow him to relax and avoid any patent talk.


    I think the basic QX design was probably included in his provisional applications that he abandoned. I also expect that they work -- although this will require third party test data and replications. The idea that he doesn't have any designs is implausible in my opinion: he takes his technology seriously. However, maintaining total market share (like Patterson) and not allowing others to have access to the true root of his technology is more important to him than ever commercializing the tech.


    To be specific, I think the QX is an evolution of his mirror effect reactor with lithium, hydrogen, and nickel. My hypothesis is that the QX is little more than a highly efficient version of a hot fusion spheromak reactor, crashing spheromaks into each other to induce fusion. The spheromaks will be contained in the center of the reactor (in the capillary tube) by the electrodes that are either rare earth magnets coated in nickel (perhaps with diamond emitters on their surface) or backed by rare earth magnets. The fact that spheromaks colliding together can induce nuclear reactions is totally accepted physics: if you know where to look you can find military documents on the topic and research papers from the civilian sector. Rossi is just making them smaller and more efficiently with the QX, in my opinion.

  • I don't disagree completely, except that I think that his technology has a root core that does indeed work. I'm not saying everyone of his systems operated as he claimed: we know he has admitted lying to get out of agreements. But I think he has seen legitimate excess heat and a wide range of other strange effects, and in addition to maximizing his profits (going the same route as Patterson and a host of other inventors) he seeks to advance the technology -- if he can do so in a way that he controls the entire market. Being famous and rich is better than just being rich. And I think for his advancement of the work by Piantelli and Focardi, he deserves a lot of credit. At the same time, he deserves the legacy of being a sneaky trickster at times and being highly manipulative to the whole LENR community (alluding to a relationship with Johnson Matthey that didn't exist or was insanely exaggerated).

    director,


    Dude, you are relentless.

  • I'm not saying his patent is valid or not. I really don't care.

    If the patent is invalid, he has nothing. Something as important as this can never be protected by trade secrets, or some other alternative to a patent. Assuming the gadget is real: without a patent, once it becomes generally known that the effect is real, every industrial company on earth will work on it, spending hundreds of millions of dollars a week. Collectively they will make more progress every week than Rossi could make in a lifetime. They will not pay him.


    If people having ordinary skill in the art (PHOSITA) cannot replicate heat from the patent, then the patent is invalid, and there is nothing Rossi can do to protect his intellectual property. All of his schemes, lies, machinations and secrecy will avail him nothing. If he has a valid patent, then anyone in the world can find every important detail of his invention, so there is no point to secrecy in that case, either.


    Real inventors and real corporations make no effort to keep patented technology secret. On the contrary, they brag about it. AT&T famously wrote the book on transistors ("Mother Bell's Cookbook") and trained hundreds of the world's top experts how to manufacture them. They do keep upcoming work secret, until the patent is filed and revealed.

  • Director - this is moving into despicable territory. You are aware that the R'ster continues to attack Piantelli's IP in the EP sector aren't you?


    Dewey,


    Yes, Rossi is still attacking Piantelli's patent. I agree with you that his doing so is despicable. I just cannot figure out why he (Rossi) is doing it? You and I both agree, know he ripped IH off, and that Doral was a shameless sting operation. The guy has no morals whatsoever, etc.


    So why work this patent angle like he is? Not baiting you, as I am truly confused myself. It just does not fit into the picture I have in mind.

  • If the patent is invalid, he has nothing. Something as important as this can never be protected by trade secrets, or some other alternative to a patent. Assuming the gadget is real: without a patent, once it becomes generally known that the effect is real, every industrial company on earth will work on it, spending hundreds of millions of dollars a week. Collectively they will make more progress every week than Rossi could make in a lifetime. They will not pay him.


    If people having ordinary skill in the art (PHOSITA) cannot replicate heat from the patent, then the patent is invalid, and there is nothing Rossi can do to protect his intellectual property. All of his schemes, lies, machinations and secrecy will avail him nothing. If he has a valid patent, then anyone in the world can find every important detail of his invention, so there is no point to secrecy in that case, either.


    Real inventors and real corporations make no effort to keep patented technology secret. On the contrary, they brag about it. AT&T famously wrote the book on transistors ("Mother Bell's Cookbook") and trained hundreds of the world's top experts how to manufacture them. They do keep upcoming work secret, until the patent is filed and revealed.


    If he had the most rock solid patent it wouldn't mean much at all. This is because he's unwilling to share his complete and total know how and trust a partner to push forward with mass production. The only way for him to obtain even a small share of the market before the copycats emerge and take the technology further is to after all this time have faith in someone else. He's a manipulative character who has burned other people (the entire LENR community with his exaggeration about Johnson Matthey as an example) and knows what it's like to be manipulated. This probably, although I hope I'm wrong, means he isn't going to share his know how with anyone. Or, if he does, the bare minimum. I think he may actually open up a factory, but his ramp up will be far too slow for him to become a serious player in the commercial LENR landscape.


    When it comes to the issue of if anyone can replicate Fluid Heater, I'd argue that it seems like they have. There was another report that was released a few weeks ago by a Russian group. But I don't think Rossi has shared the information needed to boost the output to an undeniable degree allowing for self sustain and/or high COP. My guess is that he keeps a load of information to himself. Some additional info could be in his abandoned patent applications we'll never see. Without such information, producing high powered systems with the Ni-LiAlH4 combination is very challenging.


    I think the truth is that once you "get" the essence of what he has been doing with his reactors (the whole plasma/diamond/evo nexus), throwing an experienced, professional team into a well equipped lab and figuring out the remainder wouldn't be too insanely challenging. Since I feel that the essence of his technology is now "out there" I don't think it will be long at all until competitors emerge.

  • Dewey,


    Yes, Rossi is still attacking Piantelli's patent. I agree with you that his doing so is despicable. I just cannot figure out why he (Rossi) is doing it? You and I both agree, know he ripped IH off, and that Doral was a shameless sting operation. The guy has no morals whatsoever, etc.


    So why work this patent angle like he is? Not baiting you, as I am truly confused myself. It just does not fit into the picture I have in mind.


    I haven't been keeping up with Rossi's patent issues for a while now. The last research I performed was trying to make sense of the titles of his provisional patent applications that he abandoned. My guess is that the mirror effect reactor with lithium, hydrogen, and nickel is an early variation of the Quark.


    Rossi shouldn't be bothering with patents; instead, I think he should focus on getting something that works and has value mass produced in the largest way possible, even if it means losing a big portion of his control of the technology. The essence of the effect is out now, and we know it's really not the "Rossi Effect" but should include a long string of names starting with Tesla and Moray and continuing with Rossi near the end. I'm just waiting for other parties to announce their results.

  • Director - this is moving into despicable territory. You are aware that the R'ster continues to attack Piantelli's IP in the EP sector aren't you?


    That's a stupid thing to do, IMO, because it gains him nothing. He has a short window to get a product into the market, and suing others isn't going to earn him additional marketshare. I don't think he has anything to worry about from Piantelli anyway. Even though Piantelli is a really clever guy and in the past have obtained some very interesting results, he's so super safety conscious that I don't think he'll be coming up with anything close to a practical device in the near future. I just wish Piantelli had a bit of Tesla's courage to push forward.

  • Rossi shouldn't be bothering with patents; instead, I think he should focus on getting something that works and has value mass produced in the largest way possible, even if it means losing a big portion of his control of the technology.


    I thought he had "something that works and has value mass produced in the largest way possible" after his Doral success...so what happened?


    And he is "bothering with patents", and that does not make sense to me. But then again, neither does robbing banks. :)

  • Would a government be able to expropriate a patent(s) when deeming them important to the nation's security. I don't see it hard to organize in extremist bureaucracy such as EU.


    Max,


    The US government did not "expropriate" in the case of LENR patents. They (USPTO) had an authorized, internal policy to deny any LENR patent application for approval. As Jed said; some slipped through the cracks anyways.


    The SAWS policy ended 3 years ago after it was reported in the news. And BTW, it was not only directed against LENR, but also UFO's, Sasquatch, Spheromacks, EVOs and strange radiation.


    Although I am not sure about the last three. :) 

  • Shane D. I am saying it should be done. How many things you know which can turn energy field upside down? It is not a Tesla patenting new door handle.

    What I am saying if tech works take all IP and make it public. It is premature to worry in Rossi case because we want to see the gizmo first.

    If oil goes up to 200 and at the same time there is a cheap energy source the govt which in any country acts as a ruthless gang with good intentions will have to make a move.

  • Here's my opinion. I'm not saying it's gospel truth, but my best guess.


    At some point before and during his time at Doral, he came up with the idea for the Quark. Previously, he'd been producing EVOs (please realize that is an imprecise term for a range of different toroidal clusters with different shapes, sizes, levels of stability, and composition) from his plasma and/or from diamond structures he grew on his nickel. The quark was a method of controlling precisely the production of EVOs, sequestering them into a specific area between electrodes, and colliding them to produce nuclear effects. This really isn't anything new because the basic concept has already been tested - albeit with large sized spheromaks - by the military and civilian companies. I think when he saw the Quark working, his only purpose for the reactors in the one megawatt plant was to someone acquire the 89 million dollars. Compared to the controllability of the Quark, the reactors in the one megawatt plant were far less stable, lots of trouble, and downright primitive. In the court documents we can read about rust forming everywhere, electrical issues, reactors failing, and all sorts of issues. So privately he abandoned them while publicly proclaiming his ambitions to commercialize them. I can in a way understand his desire to proceed with the Quark technology. If the QX is verified to perform as he has claimed, then it's truly a huge leap towards an ideal system. But at the same time, his track record makes me believe that there's a chance NOTHING will come from the QX. Not because they don't work, but because even in the BEST CASE scenario (for Rossi) in which he gets some level of funding, he won't trust a partner enough to allow them to participate in the manufacturing. He'll open a small factory producing an output which won't be able to compete with his competitors.

  • At some point before and during his time at Doral, he came up with the idea for the Quark.


    Hmmm...he came up with the QX (named Madame Curie at that time) idea at almost the same time (May/June 2015), when IH started asking/demanding Rossi allow Murray into the Doral work-site. So did the QX have more to do with that, or a true inspiration that only appeared coincidental?

  • Would a government be able to expropriate a patent(s) when deeming them important to the nation's security.

    The U.S. government cannot do this. A patent is property. The government cannot just take it without paying. However:


    In some cases it can declare the patent a military secret. That would never be the case with cold fusion because it is already known worldwide, and any practical form would be known worldwide with days of its discovery.


    The government can force a patent holder to either manufacture or license the technology. You are not allowed to use a patent to suppress important technology. That defeats the purpose of the patent system, which is to spur the development of technology. (The other purpose is to enrich inventors, but that's not why the government invented the patent system.) In this regard, if Rossi's gadget is real, he has already violated the regs by keeping it secret. No one believes it is real so they are not going after him. If you have a patent for unimportant technology, the government will not care if you use it to suppress that technology.


    The government can change the rules for a given patent or set of patents, in special situations critical to national security or the national interest. For example, in 1917, the government forced all aviation patent holders to join a patent pool. This was done to expedite the manufacturing of military airplanes for WWI. The government did not take away anyone's patent (their intellectual property), but it forced a new set of rules on this particular set of patents. There have been other patent pools. The ones I have heard of were voluntary, but there might be others the government forced on industry.

  • shane,


    Unknown December 20, 2013 (mailing date) New Theory regarding Reactions between Nickel, Lithium, Hydrogen: Weak Interaction Energy and in a Mirror Effect Reactor


    My guess is he may have had ideas back in 2013 in regards to what would become the QX, but may not have have achieved ultimate success until the time period during which the test or demo of the one megawatt plant was taking place. Looking back, I honestly don't understand why someone a decade or so ago didn't test a system of producing SMALL spheromaks very efficently, trapping them magnetically, and colliding them to produce fusion.

  • Dewey,


    Yes, Rossi is still attacking Piantelli's patent. I agree with you that his doing so is despicable. I just cannot figure out why he (Rossi) is doing it? You and I both agree, know he ripped IH off, and that Doral was a shameless sting operation. The guy has no morals whatsoever, etc.


    So why work this patent angle like he is? Not baiting you, as I am truly confused myself. It just does not fit into the picture I have in mind.

    SHane,


    The patent angle is strictly a smoke and mirror distraction.

  • No, he surely is no dummy. He knows his PR, and the power of controlling the message through his JONP. Yes, even though he clearly uses sockpuppets, and mostly only allows friendly questions from those that adore, and praise him (or act like they do), he is still around with a solid fan base.


    How he got 70 people to attend his Stockholm QX DPS is beyond me, but he did. Not only did they attend, but lined up for a moment of his time afterwards. Like he is some rock star or something. These people were not dummy types either, but mostly scientists and businessmen.


    When, after the demo the video surfaced of him messing under the cover of the control box, I thought that was the end of him. But his fans brushed that off after he explained he was only turning on the cooling fan. For a man caught in so many lies...including about the QX, with no factory, no employees, no building he works out of, no independent validation that matches his 80, or 200 COP, 11 years without a product on the market, and his documented deceit and trickery at Doral, it is truly amazing he is still around.


    And it looks like he will be around for some time to come, so I have come to accept him as being part of the permanent LENR landscape. IMO, that probably is not good for the field, but others may disagree, and if so, I accept their opinion.

  • These people were not dummy types either, but mostly scientists and businessmen.


    So I've heard. But note that the opinions of any businessmen will be reducible to those of any scientists they have consulted who are in a position to assess Rossi's tech, or they are flying blind without research upon which to base an impression. So it all turns on any scientists (or engineers) who have the qualifications to make an assessment. And we've heard nary a peep from certain ones to defend their previous work, so that work by itself cannot provide the basis for a positive assessment from the outside.


    The Stockholm presentation and Rossi's tech more generally, then, amount to an informational black hole on which you can project the existence of qualified scientists who have succeeded in carrying out rigorous evaluation of Rossi's tech and found it pleasing, or you can project scientists who made mistakes somewhere and haven't found them yet, or you can project scientists who are in doubt but not yet willing to retract their earlier conclusions. And the most we have to evaluate the situation at present emerging from that black hole of information, apart from that unpromising action with the control box at the Stockholm demo, are rumors here and there that some people, specifics unknown, are impressed.


    It is not a total black hole of information, however. We have, of course, all of the preceding history, which tells one to run away as fast as one can.

  • So it all turns on any scientists (or engineers) who have the qualifications to make an assessment. And we've heard nary a peep from certain ones to defend their previous work, so that work by itself cannot provide the basis for a positive assessment from the outside.


    Maybe they might not be that interested in publishing their views on random Internet forums? And they might not care what any number of anonymous posters think? Seems though as some of them were present in Stockholm... And if their opinions have not changed, why should they even bother to say so?


    But note that the opinions of any businessmen will be reducible to those of any scientists they have consulted who are in a position to assess Rossi's tech, or they are flying blind without research upon which to base an impression


    What does this tell us about IH? What scientist did they consult?