I was going to point out how ironic your post is with regard to assuming what another person thinks, but I know it would be lost on you. Please do continue your crusade. It is quite entertaining for us all.
-
-
Correct. I'm close to 100% certain that Rossi has nothing. I'm also close to 100% certain that he will come up with some BS that *looks* like he has something within your (AA) boundaries. Whether it secret robotic factories a secret customer a fudged "test" or whatever.
Mark, Neither the main stream media nor serious journals reported on the 1 MW plant working. For you to win all that would have to happen is that they keep quiet again. So what are you waiting for?
-
@ interested observer,
... when it is obvious to everyone who reads your posts that you are utterly convinced that Rossi has the goods and has leapfrogged the efforts of hundreds of researchers who have sought a miracle energy device for decades.
The second achievement is certain. In a few years he became by large the most famous and most successful CF/LENR researcher.
-
@Ascoli: no doubt that Rossi is famous... or at least infamous. However, if he is the most successful LENR researcher, then I would encourage the proprietors of this site to close up shop ASAP.
-
I was going to point out how ironic your post is with regard to assuming what another person thinks,
The difference is I don't misquote you, put words in your mouth. That one can deduce something from you lack of action is hardly ironic.
I noted how you said you were not going to point out it was ironic but went right ahead and did so.
-
@ interested observer,
However, if he is the most successful LENR researcher, then I would encourage the proprietors of this site to close up shop ASAP.
Can you cite any other LENR researcher whose devices have been capable to collect several dozens millions of funding?
No doubt that his venture deserves the attention of this site, and even of many MSMs.
-
Mark, Neither the main stream media nor serious journals reported on the 1 MW plant working. For you to win all that would have to happen is that they keep quiet again. So what are you waiting for?
Ask Lewan or just look here:
https://www.nyteknik.se/energi…-e-cat-in-bologna-6419223
Your bet conditions...
QuoteTHE BET
Taking account of the various inputs I now suggest the following:
The bet is whether Rossi starts producing commercial E-Cats by 6/1/2019. That is the date I estimated he would. Proof will be either that the result is generally accepted at that date, or failing that, positive results are published in some journal or newspaper within the following three months.
... are so ridicoluos, because for “true believers” this conditions have been already achieved since 2011.
Mats published the “positive results” reported by a customer’s controller in a swedish main stream media.
-
The 1MW was ignored by all credible media precisely because it did not work.
Mats has credibility problems in Sweden - I've heard that he has been blackballed by the IVA for his "hosted event" with the WCS.
That couldn't have been worth it.
-
@ Forty-Two,
Ask Lewan or just look here:
This one http://www.popsci.com/science/…0/andrea-rossis-black-box spread worldwide even in paper version https://www.popsci.com/announc…ber-2012-materials-future
-
Mark, Neither the main stream media nor serious journals reported on the 1 MW plant working. For you to win all that would have to happen is that they keep quiet again. So what are you waiting for?
Display More@ interested observer,
Can you cite any other LENR researcher whose devices have been capable to collect several dozens millions of funding?
No doubt that his venture deserves the attention of this site, and even of many MSMs.
example: CETI (Clean energy Tech) was offered 30 M by Motorola but Patterson wanted to remain in control, F&P were given 30M for their set up in Nice, France.
-
Mark, Neither the main stream media nor serious journals reported on the 1 MW plant working.
I'm not convinced that Penon managed it either.
-
Sure. You're all much cleverer than I because you know all the answers. As Jed said, I'm "technically iliterate" because I don't agree with him.
I doubted the rational for invading Iraq and tried to enlighten my Congressman, but the "experts" and the media were certain he had WMD.
I tire of the bitching. Take the bet or don't. Makes little difference to me.
-
Why is this debate still going on?
If Rossi has nothing he will be forgotten by history in short time. If he has something we will learn about it in the news.If IH has something people won't bother to read what somebody once upon a time in this forum wrote as they will be greeted as the saviour of mankind. If they don't have anything they will stay where they are right now. Invisible und unknown to 99,999% of earth population.
So what is all the buzz about?
I must confess that in my case it is because I get easily bored and following con men, scammers, Nigerian princes, people who believe that their birth certificate has been securitized or monetized, etc. entertains me. I would say the whole car crash thing except I don't watch those kinds of disasters - I take no pleasure in seeing others injured or harmed (unless they are Trump supporters - apologies to the moderators for slipping that in, but I had to) but I love watching the machinations of con men and scammers and seeing them exposed.
As I have repeatedly said, I have no dog in this fight and I am certainly not going to get involved in any of the technical discussions (there was a reason I switched my undergrad major at UCLA from physics to economics - physics you actually have to know stuff whereas in economics a well drawn graph will usually suffice). I count myself lucky if I understand one word per sentence of the technical, and that includes the words "the" and "and."
-
As Jed said, I'm "technically incompetent" because I don't agree with him
That brings up a good point AA. Jed thinks you are technically incompetent because you believe in the Penon (Doral ERV) report. If you believe in the Penon report, then you believe fully (100%) in the 1MW. Yet, now, with the QX, which you have argued is an advancement over those clunky old Ecats Rossi no longer markets, you drop down to "10% or more certain"....it just makes me think of that word "sandbagging" I mentioned earlier.
There may be more interest in your wager, were you to offer even odds. $ for $. But $50 is not going to hack it. No one wants to wait 15 months, or more, just to make a measly $50. Up the ante, and others may join in. All the better for you, for if you attract enough willing to bet against your man Rossi, all the better for you. You know what they say about: a fool and his money are soon....
-
Sure. You're all much cleverer than I because you know all the answers. As Jed said, I'm "technically incompetent" because I don't agree with him. I doubted the rational for invading Iraq and tried to enlighten my Congressman, but the "experts" and the media were certain he had WMD.
I tire of the bitching. Take the bet or don't. Makes little difference to me.
I'd say that someone who has designed a few furnaces* should be able to realise for himself why the Penon report must be nonsense, and that's despite the ridiculous measurement methods contained inside it. - Yes, I know, the "steam meter broke"... which is an equally ridiculous excuse... Why not just change it, instead of trying to wrangle the data into a Shanahan-esque contortion of the steam equations, in order to suggest that Rossi actually made his 1MW?
And I don't care to bet with you as (a) my Johnson is large enough already, and (b) for the same reason I don't steal sweets from small children in the street.* Mind you, humanity has been doing the same since before the bronze age, so let's not get too excited.
-
Display More
Agreed that JONP will not count. I answered your previous objections earlier, for example, pointing out that UL certification was not possible . If you have other, reasonable objections, list them below. The modified bet now follows.
"The bet is whether Rossi starts producing commercial E-Cats by 6/1/2019. That is the date I estimated he would. Proof will be either that the result is generally accepted at that date, or failing that, positive results are published in some journal (JONP doesn't count) or newspaper within the following three months. If not, it will be considered a failure. What Rossi says is not counted as proof. Also that the E-Cats have a COP >6 The amount of the bet is $50 from me vs. $500 from each of you.
I will send Alan $50 US checks from FedEx that are undated and good indefinitely. Something Alan can confirm if need be. I will accept regular undated checks from everyone except Woodworker, who doesn't trust people here, rather than tie up your money. I will accept the Stirling equivalent if that is more convenient."
As I commented, their should be no problem if you are right and Rossi has nothing. In that case nothing will be written about it except that he has failed.
You well know the libel laws in America (not Sweden) would app;y as you are resident in CA.
I am sorry but I do not understand your reference to Sweden or its libel laws. If I have defamed Rossi, he does not need to file an action in Sweden. I know he has sufficient contacts to satisfy personal jurisdiction requirements as a defendant in Florida, but nothing in International Shoe (the seminal constitutional case on personal jurisdiction in the United States) and its progeny ("I. Shoe and its progeny" is an often used phrase when discussing personal jurisdiction) or any where else that requires a plaintiff to satisfy the personal jurisdiction requirements. Rossi could simply march into any California State Court in San Mateo County (which is just below San Francisco and is part of the "Silicon Valley") or any US District Court (filing in Federal Court requires either a Federal issue, which is not present here, or (A) complete diversity of citizenship, usually different states but a California citizen and a foreign citizen would suffice, and (B) a controversy in an amount greater than $75,000. Filing in a California State Court would only require the payment of a filing fee, which is currently $435.
I don't believe I made any reference to Sweden so please explain (although one of my sisters and her husband lived there in the late sixties and early seventies, I have no ties to Sweden. Oh wait, I used to own a Volvo C-70 convertible - never should have donated it to charity).
As to UL approval, I am persuaded by your and others' points about timing and I agree that a UL approval is not an appropriate condition precedent. However, newspapers, journals, etc. just will not do. I think you and I are both old enough to remember the lead up to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 where we were repeatedly assured by media large and small, old media and new media, including the Gray Lady herself, the New York Times, that there was absolutely no doubt that Iraq had vast stockpiles of WMD, a nuclear programs, stockpiles of bio and chemical weapons and that Iraq had in fact weaponized drones to attack the West, all of which turned out to be a very large steaming pile of horse manure, the consequences of which we will be paying for over the next 60 to 100 years. So no, I will not accept some press release reprinted in a newspaper or journal. I very much detest President Reagan, but he did have one intelligent piece of advise "Trust, but verify."
-
I take no pleasure in seeing others injured or harmed (unless they are Trump supporters - apologies to the moderators for slipping that in, but I had to)
WW,
I am the only "token" conservative moderator. They brought me in so they would not be accused of discrimination against. That said, I will accept your apology "for slipping it in", but only if you do 10 Hail Mary's, and allow me to slap your wrist with a ruler like the Sisters did at Catholic School.
Remember also, we save the planet types come in all different flavors.
Now, no more of that politics stuff. You had your say, and let that be the last.
-
Seems you felt addressed by my post?
No, I don't see such a bet would do anything good to change this whole discussion and running in circles. Rossi believers will go on to ignore any sign of doubt in their hero. Rossi has always been a master of promises and excuses when it comes to point to deliver and something he claimed did not materialize. We will see this by end of this year and by end of next year - it is simply the same pattern, since almost a decade. This is unfortunately just entertaining but doesn't add anything of value to the entire LENR research field, and no product (he could have been a billionaire and started to save the world many years ago with his certified 1MW plants...but didn't why? I am sure you can explain: because there was already an new and better and smaller and higher COP toy in the R&D pipeline...
Such cynicism, you almost sound as if you don't believe in the master.
Apropos comments about betting. I almost never bet on sporting events or other matters that I view as inherently games of chance. I have represented too many gaming companies to ever contemplate gambling in a casino and I would be a terrible loser, so I don't. I bet on things that I consider sure and on things where I want to see people put their pocket on the line along with their mouth. I never bet, or offer to bet, more than I can easily afford to lose.
-
I doubted the rational for invading Iraq and tried to enlighten my Congressman, but the "experts" and the media were certain he had WMD.
You are boasting this again and again, like you were the only smart guy who doubted the WMD.
Millions doubted that, including my humble self... or, for an example, this bit more heavyweight guy:
External Content youtu.beContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.
-
Display More
He knows how difficult it is to win libel cases in the US. Also that Rossi does not appear to be litigious in libel matters and he has had plenty of opportunities. Rossi says he doesn't read blogs like this so probably does not know (or care.) It would also be helpful if Woodworker gave his name at the top of his address.
That is a bit of a stretch. Investment companies like his first priority is to make money. He is not quite as snow white as you make out. There are pages of court cases against Cherokee in Google. See below for examples. I didn't take the time to find the particular one I was looking for, where Cherokee was accused of taking money to clean up a site but failed to do so.
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2015/ia-4258.pdf
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-court-of-appeals/1865945.html
https://law.justia.com/cases/c…eme-court/1968/23358.html
The court case didn't reach the jury, so there is no legal proof of what you claim.
Are you going to take the bet or did you refuse already? I don't remember.
First, please feel free to forward my comments to Rossi, I beg you. Secondly, as to the degree of difficulty, yes it is true to win when the accusations are true - then they are not defamatory. However, it is not nearly as difficult as in England (you say Sweden, I say England) where to win a suit in defamation the defendant has to prove the truthfulness of the alleged defamatory language. Much more difficult in England. Here I would only have to prevent Rossi from proving that his claims of defamation are more likely than not, i.e., greater than fifty percent. It wouldn't make a difference though - I would get all of the Rossi materials from Jones Day and then conduct discovery on Rossi. Rossi will never sue anyone again where there is an opportunity for the other side to take discovery. Fuhgetaboutit.
My name is Howard Michael Appel. I use "woodworker" because that was my sign in on the very first blog I visited low these many years and they recommended not using your real name. In case you missed any of my earlier posts on this topic, I am a lawyer, licensed in California, my State Bar Number is 158674, my mailing address is 1100 Broadway Street, Suite 5752, Redwood City, California 94063. Please make sure to use my middle name in full as there is a Howard Miller Appel who has been in trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission and was a subject of a 1996 (IIRC) story in The Wall Street Journal regarding certain issues. Somewhere, unless I lost it, I have a letter from the WSJ confirming that I was not the subject of that story.
