Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Quote from Ascoli65

@ Shane D.,

thank you for your open and frank answer. Let me reply.

This is exactly what I don't understand. Which damages did Rossi cause to the LENR research? It was nearly dead when he arrived in 2007. Look at the following reportage of a conference held in August of that year, just in the period when Rossi came to Italy to meet Focardi:

As you see, at that time it was hard to even convince people that there was "something real involved in CF". Three years later, millions of people around the world believed that a CF device capable of producing many kW of excess heat was almost ready to enter the market. So the Ecat initiative didn't cause any damage to the field. On the contrary, it has allowed to prolong for a few years the activities of those who was already doing research on LENR for about a quarter of century, allowing them to attend many other conferences all over the world.

Believe me, it's not my intention to drag anyone in the mud. I'd like only to understand better what happened, and this necessarily requires to draw a complete picture with all the main protagonists. I think it is due to the millions who have had some hope in the reality of CF/LENR, and to the many more who have financed public research on this field for many years.

Who said that? Neither Rossi, nor the professors or researchers who tested his devices. These are just rumors. No testers spoke of "small, unreliable effects". From the beginning, they only reported huge effects, controllable at demand. There is no room for uncertainties.

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And more people today believe that the moon landings were faked, that the government orchestrated 9/11 and that Elvis is alive (actually not sure about that last one). I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling when someone cites popular enthusiasm as a measure of whether or not something has actually been accomplished. Ditto the fact that Rossi was as successful as he was in scamming / raising money.

Quote from Shane D.

if any of those that got a funding boost

How many and who received a funding boost? Boeing for testing a device? I know of several people who tried to make hot Ni and H work but none that got funded for that specifically. Perhaps there are some - I would love to know who and how much.

Shane,

I know of people working with Ni and H but the ones I know of are doing it without outside funding. There are very few people out there that are funded for LENR.

MFMP-- Not sure what they are doing these days. The last I heard, they were working on the Egley systems, and Bob H was doing some things with Pd, Ni and H but "on his own nickel".

It seems to me that there may be a few doing Rossi type items but most of the LENR community is not and most got no "funding boost" from it. Mostly just more as usual. There may have been some Texas Tech work that was funded (by you know who) but it was Pd electrochemistry it seems (they are not saying publicly).

All that to say, I see very little positive Rossi effects now and significant negative effects - but that is just from my limited perspective. I may ask around in Denver what others think.

Quote from woodworker

Why would it be a good idea to shut down the thread? Because it continues to draw attention to Rossi's lies and frauds? You say that you have no interest in the transcripts (and I assume the depositions), but you seem willing to accept Rossi's word and version of events as true. It seems to me that a person who took a person's word as evidence of their technological successes would at least want to know how often, and to what degree, did that person previously lie and commit fraud regarding their prior technological "successes." And yes, Rossi would like to move on and, just as in 1984, he would like to rewrite history in order to completely erase the entire IH / Doral debacle. We have always been at war with Oceania!

You are a Lawyer.Is it not the job of the Lawyers,Judges,and the legal system to sort things out as best they can and come up with a

verdict or settlement so the people

involved have some kind of closure.

I think the Courts did that with Rossi and Darden.They have moved on but

the peanut gallery does not want to rest there Case.

Quote from sam12

You are a Lawyer.Is it not the job of the Lawyers,Judges,and the legal system to sort things out as best they can and come up with a

verdict or settlement so the people

involved have some kind of closure.

I think the Courts did that with Rossi and Darden.They have moved on but

the peanut gallery does not want to rest there Case.

The main job of a lawyer is to win.

I knew it!

Spam shows up with the signature "close the thread" dropping.

@ oldguy,

Quote from oldguy

As one who often goes to the conferences (ICCF, this year in Denver by the way) and does experiments; I would say Rossi NEVER had the support of the whole CF field. Yes, there were a few but no where near the whole field.....by my count only about 6 CF workers (as defined by those who attend ICCF conferences) out of 2 hundred or so. And to my knowledge Rossi has never submitted even a single paper to CF conferences or journals. I don't think he would be well received there.

This your answer to my quote ("Without the support of the whole CF field, the Ecat saga would not even be come at Doral") surprises me a lot. I returned to post here on L-F on March 18, as a result of this your comment:

Quote from oldguy

I think they blindly listened to people like Ed, Jed, Melich,..... and others that at the time were singing praise to Rossi since they didn't have any in house experts and were only "business types" looking at the risk/reward ratios. [...]

In your comment you explicitly mentioned three people among the most seasoned, influential, and expert protagonists of the CF/LENR field who, as you said, were singing praise to Rossi, and you added they were not the only ones. Don't you think that they were sufficiently representative of the strong support that the whole LENR community was giving to the Ecat initiative?

Quote from oldguy

Where do you get such ideas? It was not "nearly dead" see: Between November 27 and December 2, 2005, 107 scientists, inventors, engineers, journalists, and students from nine countries came together, to meet, socialize, and exchange ideas about cold fusion (CF) and low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR), in Yokohama, Japan during ICCF12–the twelfth of a series of international conferences on condensed matter nuclear science. The "conference" you site in Aug of 07 was before Rossi and was not a "conference" but a local colloquium and the report you give shows "50 or so attendees "

The attendance to the meetings (whatever they are: conferences, colloquia, etc.) is not an adequate index of the popularity of a sector. You get a better image searching for "LENR" in Google Trends for the period from January 2004 onwards: https://trends.google.it/trend…ore?date=all&q=%22lenr%22

The graph you get shows clearly that until December 2010 the interest was approaching zero. It got a first jump in January 2011, and increased throughout 2011. The peak was in January 2012 when UniBo announced the recession from the contract with Rossi, then it slowly declined, and now it is still much higher than before the 2011. All the excess of popularity with respect to the fading bottom line comes from the Ecat initiative.

Quote

You might find it interesting to search the LENR-CANR.org library and you will find very few papers about Rossi and most are just popular news items with no scientific merit.

I agree that the few papers related to the Ecat listed in the LENR-CANR library have no scientific merit, but at least two of them have been the most effective LENR papers in the last 7 years:

- the Levi's calorimetric paper of January 2011 which trigged the raise in popularity of the field after many years of oblivion;

- and the report on the Ferrara test of April 2013 that has been fundamental to trigger the most impressive private financing of the field in all ots history.

As for the other papers in the library, I really doubt they have a higher scientific merit that the previous two.

Quote

Where in the world do you get millions of people believed You are just spinning tells. Try to stay with the facts.

Rossi claims "more than one million" pre-orders for the Ecat home unit (1). If the orders are so many, you can imagine how many are those who believed in the Ecat.

Anyway, leaving aside the "Rossi says", his initiative enjoyed a favorable reporting from the media at least up to the recession of the research contract with UniBo. A segment (2) in a video aired on Bloomberg's on November 6, 2011 provides a good example of how the Ecat was presented to the people.

(1) http://www.journal-of-nuclear-…cpage=294#comment-1303509

(2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f04vEWnR_FQ (from time stamp 19:02 and 20:01)

Quote from Dewey Weaver

I knew it!

Spam shows up with the signature "close the thread" dropping.

Let’s try to have Tom Darden and Andrea Rossi post comments on this thread.The peanut gallery have run out of new material.

Quote from axil

The main job of a lawyer is to win.

And because both Lawyers work hard for there client things get resolved.

Quote from Ascoli65

Rossi claims "more than one million" pre-orders for the Ecat home unit (1). If the orders are so many, you can imagine how many are those who believed in the Ecat.

Oh man, you are really funny! Is today April fools day?

You should know from the depositions that Rossi likes to do business with himself.

So, here a fictious e-mail communication, which shows you how easily the 1 million e-cat pre-orders could have been achieved:

Quote

From: [email protected]

To: [email protected]

Sent: Sunday, April 01, 1900 8:58:12 PM

Subject: e-cat pre-order

Dear Dr. Rossi,

I am the CEO of a phony Johnson Matthew subsidary and would like to pre-order 999 900 e-cat units.

Warm Regards

Andrea

————————————————————————————————————————

From: [email protected]

To: [email protected]

Sent: Sunday, April 01, 1900 8:59:40 PM

Subject: RE: e-cat pre-order

Dear A.R.,

Thank you for your interest in our product.

Your non-binding pre-orders have been noted.

I will e-mail me you again, as soon as they are ready for order.

Warm Regards

A.R.

P.S.: I like to inform you, that with this pre-order we passed the 1 000 000 target.

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Quote from sam12

I think the Courts did that with Rossi and Darden.They have moved on but

the peanut gallery does not want to rest there Case.

Remember this is not the Rossi vs IH court thread but one on Rossi's blog. His blog is still there , he has not "rested".

There has been very little activity on Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

Quote from Ascoli65

Don't you think that they were sufficiently representative of the strong support that the whole LENR community was giving to the Ecat initiative?

No not at all. A few is not "the whole LENR community".

And google searches by the public is not what makes a scientific field "dead" or alive. It is the work by the researchers in the field that do that. Some clown on TV may have an interview about the earth being flat and draw lots of people to look them up but that does not mean that people now believe the earth is flat. You are confusing publicity and entertainment with real scientific work.

@ Forty-Two,

Quote from Forty-Two

You should know from the depositions that Rossi likes to do business with himself.

Thanks for your care. Hope you noticed I used an "if" and talked about "Rossi says".

Anyway, I really believe that in 2011 many millions of people all over the world believed that the Ecat was real and nearly ready for the market. Probably there were millions even in Italy alone, or Scandinavian. Consider that these claims were supported by the professors of three prestigious universities and by a Nobel laureate in physics, and very little opposed by their colleagues.

In my opinion, the "one million pre-orders" is one of the less incredible "Rossi says".

Quote from Ascoli65

In your comment you explicitly mentioned three people [Ed, Jed, Melich] among the most seasoned, influential, and expert protagonists of the CF/LENR field who, as you said, were singing praise to Rossi,

If I had any influence, this field would look very different than it does. For one thing someone would have tested Johnson Matthey filter palladium. (See http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanlettersfroa.pdf).

Right from the start I was saying that Rossi looks like a fraud and any sane businessman would run from the room. Plus I reported countless times that he refused to let me measure the temperature or flow rate of his cooling water. If this is "singing his praises," what could I say that would insult him, or caution against him?

Quote from Ascoli65

Anyway, I really believe that in 2011 many millions of people all over the world believed that the Ecat was real and nearly ready for the market.

I doubt you have a basis for that estimate. There were not millions of people accessing LENR-CANR.org that year, and there would have been if there had been that much interest in cold fusion. There were 358,354 visits and 330,812 downloads in 2011. There was probably a spike in interest because of Rossi, but it was not that big.

See:

http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=1213

Google Trends shows that interest in Rossi did peak in 2011. There is no indication here what the absolute numbers are; only the relative number of searches. See:

https://trends.google.com/tren…date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0hglwty

Quote from sam12

And because both Lawyers work hard for there client things get resolved.

Please tell me what esteemed law school from which you graduated? You seem to have such a keen grasp of legal principles and jurisprudence and how the adversarial system works. I sit in awe.

Quote from JedRothwell

There were 358,354 visits and 330,812 downloads in 2011.

I have no way to estimate how many were unique visitors and how many were repeat visitors. I do not have any cookies or methods of tracking users, other than the standard web server log file. Anyone who takes the trouble can hide their ID from this log, but the log will still show a visit.

As noted in my info. page, I exclude robot visitors. That is a hit or miss process. If you look like a robot, I may exclude you. Or if you are a robot trying to pass the Turing test, you might fool me. Several Rossi supporters here appear to be AI robots.

Quote from woodworker

I sit in awe.

Aw shucks?