Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

@ can,

a "quote" is a repeat or copy out (words from a text or speech written or spoken by another person).

Previously you used a quote box (with the script "Ascoli65 wrote") to attribute to me a text I didn't wrote, and in your last comment another quote box to arbitrarily assemble parts of my real quotes. I wonder if this use of the quotation tool can be considered acceptable by the administrators of this site. In the past, other L-F moderators tried to interpret and synthesize my position, but they did it in a much more fair and correct way.

Quote from can

Do you really want your readers to believe that you still haven't made up your mind yet even though you're answering your questions in your own posts? Just admit that you simply don't want to take any responsibility for what you've been slyly suggesting for the past 7 years or so. You cannot have it both ways, though.

As any other here, I have my preliminary scenario. But it is a puzzle that is very far to be complete, and where not all pieces are in the final position. I don't understand the usefulness for the L-F readers to try to complete my puzzle in advance. I think it's much more useful to share as many pieces as possible among us, leaving each of us the burden of assembling his own puzzle.

That said, you did a very good job in collecting some of my real quotes. Thanks. The important is to read them in the right context, looking at the original post from where they have been extracted.

Btw, is there anything in my quotes you want to dispute?

Ascoli65, I've removed the attribution. I don't think @can's intention was to misattribute something to you. He was merely trying to summarize the gist of your earlier quotations.

@ Eric Walker,

Quote from Eric Walker

I've removed the attribution.

Thanks.

Quote

I don't think @can's intention was to misattribute something to you. He was merely trying to summarize the gist of your earlier quotations.

Yes, I know, but he choose the wrong way to do it.

Not sealed:

0207.44_Exhibit_44.pdf

@ Shane D.,

Quote from Shane D.

The further back in the Rossi timeline you go, the more you make the point about this alternative theory of Rossi having had something at one point. Yes, I know that is not your intent, but that is the effect it is having on me.

No problem. The important thing is that the you have found these info interesting. I hope you too deem it useful to spotlight the furthest past.

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With Rossi's later years in the public record now, we know what he is capable of, but was he that good, where he could fool so many in the beginning?

It depends on how you see the facts. After so many years, you should have realized that everything you read could be the mirror image of the reality. For example, are you sure that Rossi has been capable to "fool so many in the beginning"? From which parts of the deposition do you deduce it?

Quote

Those were the days he was working elbow to elbow (close proximity), in the same room with Focardi and others.

Which days? Do we have an exact timeline of those days? We only know that the first experiment with Focardi took place on October 16, 2007 (1), during the week of Oct. 13, 2007 when an international conference on LENR was taking place in Italy (2).

Quote

There was no aura around him then, and surely everyone was highly skeptical of this man with a bad history walking in the door claiming he had a high power LENR device. They would not let just anyone in the door, and once they did, he would be subjected to the utmost scrutiny.

To say the least!

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Only after satisfying themselves, would they bring in other colleagues, and then they would have to be convinced, and so on.

Any more specific idea on how they could have been satisfied or convinced?

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Maybe we could get you to switch sides and become pro-Rossi?

Very hard. I'm not even anti-Rossi.

(1) http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…Investigation-Index.shtml

(2) http://newenergytimes.com/v2/n…1/36/3616ideologies.shtml

Ascoli65

Quote boxes in discussion boards are often used as general containers to clearly separate or highlight text, whether real or paraphased, that is not directly part of the actual comment or which is presented in a different form (e.g. first-person narration).

Either way, this only shows that if you are so concerned with how others represent your complicated point of view you should work harder on being clearer and more direct on your own.

Quote from Ascoli65

I don't understand the usefulness for the L-F readers to try to complete my puzzle in advance.

Maybe that people are trying to have a clear and honest discussion, and not playing puzzle games with you?

Quote from Ascoli65

Btw, is there anything in my quotes you want to dispute?

There's nothing in particular that I need to dispute about what you're writing; you're entitled to your own opinions on the subject and on whether LENR phenomena exist or not or to believe that a large group of people have been colluding to keep a fake narrative about it well and alive. I only wish you stopped attempting to delegate to others the responsibility for what you've been trying to suggest so far, often blatantly feigning incredulity along the way. Before you object: yes, this needed to be said.

It's hard to believe that a smart person like you isn't able to expose his thesis more directly without wasting so many comments on the topic.

(be reminded that this discussion style does work both ways)

Quote from Ahlfors

Not sealed:

0207.44_Exhibit_44.pdf

Keep following that Pt story.

Right to the end.

Please don't leave out inconvenient parts along the way.

Quote from Ahlfors

Not sealed:

0207.44_Exhibit_44.pdf

This strikes me as Rossi trying to get Johnson Matthey to send him paperwork that will make it look as though they are doing business on an industrial scale (at least $1Million given today's prices). Rossi certainly has lots of nerve asking Johnson Matthey to send the paperwork to "JM Products"!

How would this have worked though? The appearance that Rossi was trying to create for IH was that JM Products was manufacturing platinum sponge. So how would this paperwork help in the deception?

Rossi testified in depostion that he ended up buying only grams of platinum sponge. Not kilograms.

Well it would get him an officially headed Johnson Matthey form that I guess could be altered, so at first glance JM Products could be confused with the real thing.

According to Dewey Weaver, the first time Tom Darden realized that Rossi's ecat didn't work was when they got the same result with an (accidentally) unfueled reactor that they got with a fueled one. That begs the question ( Dewey Weaver ) why did not Mr. Darden and company compare a fueled and an unfueled "reactor" BEFORE giving Mr. Rossi ten f'n million dollars. I mean, how hard is that?

I'm going to guess that Rossi would not have provided the fuel, for (presumed) fear of losing his IP through reverse engineering.

Eric Walker

Rossi would not have to leave fuel with Darden. The question was: why did not Darden require Rossi to test, in a verifiable way, in front of Darden and his experts, with fueled and unfueled reactors prior to making a large financial agreement? This would not require Rossi to reveal the composition of the fuel, though, I suppose, the appearance of it might have been seen.

The answer (if there is one) is complex, but is something like this: (1) There was in fact a "validation" test that, while departing from the agreed protocol during the test, did in fact appear to come up positive; (2) Rossi is a flighty and mercurial character who has always resisted rigorous testing (one can draw one's own conclusions about the reason for this), so the likelihood of a very rigorous validation prior to IH having given him an initial sum seems remote; (3) IH were venturing into territory they knew little about and did not do their due diligence very well (nearly all are agreed on this); and (4) IH had a high tolerance for risk and were willing to proceed with less than full assurances in order not to alienate Rossi. Around the same time (I am unclear on the timeline), there was the Lugano test by Levi and the Swedes that appeared to come up positive. (I think this was after the initial exchange of money, but I'm not sure.)

Quote from Eric Walker

I'm going to guess that Rossi would not have provided the fuel, for (presumed) fear of losing his IP through reverse engineering.

Rossi supposedly did transfer to Thomas Darden the secret of the fuel. In fact, Darden himself prepared the fuel for most of the reactor cores at the Doral location. These were the cores sitting in all the small blue boxes in the shipping container.

In the end Rossi refused to use these Darden-fuelled reactors. He said it was because they leaked and because there were problems with the grounding. From that point on, the entire Doral test was carried out using the remaining reactor cores in the 4 "Big Frankies" -- cores which Rossi himself had personally fueled. I assume that Rossi engineered the leaks and grounding problems as a pretext to do away the Darden-fueled cores because he was concerned that Darden/IH had secretly loaded some of them with dummy charges.

Bruce__H

For what it's worth, the settlement document contained this paragraph. It's supposed to be mutually agreed and certified information. What does the additional element imply exactly for Rossi's granted US patent, I'm not sure.

https://animpossibleinvention.…/settlement-agreement.pdf

https://animpossibleinvention.…-was-rossis-top-priority/

Quote from Bruce__H

Rossi supposedly did transfer to Thomas Darden the secret of the fuel. In fact, Darden himself prepared the fuel for most of the reactor cores at the Doral location. These were the cores sitting in all the small blue boxes in the shipping container.

The question was why IH didn't do a good check of Rossi's reactor before giving him so much money. My understanding is that only after there was a transfer of money did Rossi give Darden the secret of the fuel.

Quote from Eric Walker

The question was why IH didn't do a good check of Rossi's reactor before giving him so much money. My understanding is that only after there was a transfer of money did Rossi give Darden the secret of the fuel.

I agree. I think it was because they viewed Rossi as temperamental and they didn't want to upset him. They thought he would take his information elsewhere.

I wouldn't want to play poker against Rossi. I think he would win.

@ can,

Quote from can

Maybe that people are trying to have a clear and honest discussion, and not playing puzzle games with you?

[...]

It's hard to believe that a smart person like you isn't able to expose his thesis more directly without wasting so many comments on the topic.

I'm not asking you to play puzzle with me. My "clear and honest discussion" is devoted to collect as many pieces as possible, and check the compatibility of those already on the table. Anyone can assemble his puzzle by himself.

Let me explain better how I see the situation. The Ecat history can be considered like a picture. There is only one real picture, it doesn't depend on us, but most of us want to know it. No authoritative entity will reveal the real picture, we can only imagine what it could be, putting together the pieces of information we have gathered, like in a jigsaw puzzle.

The Ecat puzzle is much more harder than usual, because we have been given a lot of fake pieces in order to make us imagine the wrong picture. Moreover, most of the real pieces are still, and will remain, purposely hidden. Fortunately, among the given pieces there were also some real ones, which didn't fit well with the others, and they allow to get rid of many fake information.

After this selection, the remaining valid pieces are much less of those needed to fill the entire frame. Let's say one tenth. So there is a lot of large voids inside the frame. The available pieces only allow to put together separate parts of the whole picture, but it's impossible to put these parts in the right position, with the exact orientation.

This is the current situation. So the priority is to collect many more pieces. They can emerge from the huge documentation available on internet, or from some new revelation from the insiders. For example, during the last weeks, 3 pieces emerged by chance among the L-F posts.

a) the retrieval from the web of the Celani revelations (1) about a hypothetical collaboration between Rossi and Ahern in 2007, before Rossi returned to Italy to meet Focardi;

b) the revelation of JR (2) about his phone call with Scanlan on the same day of June 2011, when Scanlan met Rossi for a possible investment on the Ecat;

c) the info from DW (3) that one of the 3 consecutive CF phone calls to Darden specifically referenced Rossi.

The above are 3 new pieces of the Ecat puzzle. They might be useful or not to connect two or more parts of the puzzle, depending on how you interpret them. But their interpretation is not easy because around each of them there are many missing pieces. For instance:

a) who informed Celani about the collaboration between Rossi and Ahern, and, if the rumor is confirmed, when they met for the first time, where, for which purpose, what did Rossi learn from Ahern (or vice versa), etc.

b) who has called who in the phone call between JR and Scanlan, when it happened (before, during or after the meeting), for which purpose, etc.

c) who called Darden, when it happened, what other CF initiatives were referenced in the other 2 calls, why they were so convincing to make him risk many millions just to see what would happen, etc.

It's very likely that all these questions will remain unanswered, which means that as many pieces of the Ecat puzzle will not be on the table.

I am not so smart (thanks, anyway) to complete the picture with so many missing pieces. My thesis is that when, and if, there will be enough valid pieces on the table, everyone will be able to assemble a quite realistic picture by himself.

(1) Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

(2) Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

(3) Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion