Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

My "wild claim" is that the evidence is too dodgy and we should wait and see.

Your claim is that you know for sure, with no evidence, that Rossi is not building a factory and has never had anything that worked.

It looks like you need to learn to parse what is written and master basic logic.

Rewriting history again -- your claim was not "that the evidence is too dodgy and we should wait and see." Your claim was that you had confirmation and independent information that the factory was being built. Just a weeeee difference.

Quote from interested observer

Adrian, despite your perfect track record in ignoring any direct questions, k would as if you have anything to say in support of Rossi apart from the meaningless observation that there is no proof that the e-cat is a fraud? You should note that there is no proof that unicorns don’t exist as well.

Take that back right now or I will send Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster after you. I know unicorns exist.

Quote from CWatters

I don't know if it's the same in the USA but here in the UK it's possible to negotiate an initial rent free period when you move into industrial properties. A company I know managed to get a three storey office block free for 18 months.

It's also possible to rent a small office in a large factory with an option to rent the rest of it. Meanwhile you have somewhere to show visitors or investors around.

In short, it need not be too expensive to "set up a factory".

I wonder how easy it is to get product liability insurance for heaters based on LENR?

Display More

If it's a renter's market, the same type of arrangements are available in the US. But I would imagine that brokers in the UK would behave the same as in the US, e.g., doing due diligence on the proposed lessee, including financial due diligence, and getting a valid letter of credit (or something similar) from the proposed lessee. Also, faking a letter of credit would annoy the FBI, et al, and likely end up with you in the fed pen.

Quote from interested observer

As far as one can tell, Adrian’s living in an imaginary world neither harms him nor anyone else. Best of luck to him.

Adrian’s imagination,knowledge and many

years experience is why he is good at figuring out Rossi and his technology.

He reminds me of Iggy Dairymple and Clovis Ray from Ecat World.

I agree that imagination is valuable in figuring out Rossi's technology. Certainly nothing in the real world is useful in that endeavor.

@Adrian Ashfield

Quote

What did he show in Stockholm, a hologram?

Hi Adrien, That is a good question. Know the answer? Some might say he showed a few common Home Depot garden department parts, a bit of tape, and a mystery box that seemed to consume a lot of power and needed some fiddling with. Apart from that, what did you see that the rest of us may have missed? Did you see accurate calorimetry? Did you see Rossi measauring input power and output power?

Quote

I know unicorns exist.

And pigs can fly, if you attach a large enough aircraft engine to the pig.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

seven_of_twenty

What Roseland wrote, that Rossi had never made anything, was obviously a lie.

You couldn't resist picking at the scab.

I doubt your fellow critics are proud of your pathetic cut and paste troll.

Adrian,

My thats not what I wrote, but as usual you twist and turn and perverted it for your argument.

This is what I wrote

Inventor?

Name me 1 product that Andrea Rossi has designed, built, marketed and sold.

Some perspective please...

Nuclear fission of heavy elements was discovered on December 17, 1938 by German Otto Hahn and his assistant Fritz Strassmann, and explained theoretically in January 1939 by Lise Meitner and her nephew Otto Robert Frisch. The first commercial fission reactor: The Mark 1 reactor led to the US Atomic Energy Commission building the 60 MWe Shippingport demonstration PWR reactor in Pennsylvania, which started up in 1957 and operated until 1982. During that period of development, many $billions were spent using every specialist in the allied science stable.

Rossi has done the same type breakthrough job on his own with his own funding.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

Yes.

The exception would be if the more powerful SK version is much superior Rossi maybe tempted to switch. As this would mean another years delay I think that might be a fatal mistake.

I am still catching up, so whatever was supposed to have happened by the end of May may have already happened, or not happened, and already been discussed. But on the off chance that it hasn't, I want to make some predictions.

First, whatever tremendous test that was supposed to have happened will not have "completely" happened. The test occurred but had to be stopped because (a) the energies being generated were so powerful that it was dangerous to continue until better control and safety systems could be designed and put into place, (b) while conducting the test, a piece of equipment (off the shelf equipment, not something created by AR) malfunctioned and the test had to be shut down, (c) just prior to the commencement of the test, and despite having obtained all the necessary approvals, the regulatory people, whom shall not be identified, notified AR that he couldn't proceed with the test (this was obviously due to one of AR's competitors exerting improper influence in order to allow the competitor time to catch up), (d) the test was going fine but had to be terminated because there was something indicating that there had been sabotage and it was unsafe to continue, (e) everything was ready to go, but one key piece of equipment, either for the device or the test setup, had been held up by customs, failure of vendor to ship, lost in transit, back-ordered, dog ate it, etc. and/or (f) all or more than one of the above.

BUT, despite the test not occurring/not being completed, there is tremendous good news: The GOOD NEWS is that (a) although the test was not completed, the preliminary results were outstanding and everything is full steam ahead (personally, I don't think he goes with this one); (b) although the test was not completed, the preliminary results PROVE not only that AR is on the right path overall, but the results have opened AR's eyes to a completely new radical approach (which will of course be based on all of his successes to date) which will be capable of generating significantly more power, but which will also be safer to operate and less expensive to manufacture, which of course means that the roboticized production lines, the software and the factory all have to be redesigned which will delay commencement of production of the new SMSD until 2020 (I like this one); and (c) although the test was not completed, the results were so impressive that a multi-national global corporation in the financial investment is interested in financing world-wide production and distribution and has asked AR to hold off further tests until better and more secure procedures can be put into place to make sure no one steals the most valuable IP in the world.

If the claim is that the test never occurred/was prevented from occurring, AR will come up with some GOOD NEWS similar to those above.

BUT, even BETTER NEWS, is that his investors, his co-venturers, customers and partners (and other imaginary friends), and all of his associated technical advisers and underlings, along with the world's best minds, encourage him to focus on the new approach (whatever it is) and no longer waste any time, energy or money on pursuing that old approach, the one that was going to destroy the competition, win him the Nobel Peace Prize, Chemistry Prize and Physics Prize, as well as save humanity. Oh, and the one for which the roboticized factory already had been built.

Now that we know how AR will act, I think it only appropriate to discuss how certain posters will react.

SAM12 will assert that the abandonment of the current miracle in favor of the SMSD is absolute proof that the old model worked, otherwise how could AR build on that for the SMSD. And, the fact that AR admits that there was some sort of minor problem or that AR has discovered a better approach is evidence that AR is an honest and upright individual, one who is willing to admit that their last solution wasn't perfect -- what more could anyone ask as evidence of AR's noble character. And the fact that AR is dropping the EQ (or whatever it is currently called) is also absolute proof that the SMSD works and is better -- after all, why would someone drop the EQ, a device which has been proven to work and which would change the way the world works unless they were 100% certain that the SMSD would be even better. You have to understand that the fact that AR is dropping the EQ proves that the EQ worked. SAM12 will also point out that, as the design is changing, the factory, robots, etc., will need to be redesigned, programmed, etc. and that such reprogramming, redesign, etc. is again proof that the SMSD must work. Otherwise, why would anyone redesign, reprogram, etc., etc., spending all that time and money unless they had a proven device. Anyone recognize this argument -- Adrian.

ALPHORS will post a couple of pictures of something purporting to demonstrate something about something, with no explanation.

Adrian will say that switching designs at this point is a very bad strategy and that AR should focus on getting the current model to market. But Adrian will claim that nothing about this new strategy, how it came about, or anything else about it, has any significance as to whether or not the EQ works or is a con. Rather, Adrian will make the same arguments that I have allocated ti SAM12, but with the added fillips of some misdirection, some moving of the goal posts, some quotations from AR doubters or skeptics that were never actually said, refusal to actually directly answer a substantive question, sometimes by just ignoring the question, sometimes rewriting the question and sometimes saying that he has already answered the question so we should look it up ourselves. Oh, and accusing others of ad hominem attacks because they ask questions based on evidence. And, as we all should know, nothing about AR has anything to do with evidence.

And is six months or so from now, we will be able to see a new episode of the "Andrea Rossi Fantasy Hour," which episode will look remarkably similar to all of the preceding episodes.

Anyhow, that is likely all for me tonight -- I am dealing with a fairly large kidney stone and I hear the dulcet tones of hydrocodone and morphine calling me.

Oh, SMSD = Super Money Sucking Device.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

sam12,

Andrea Rossi is a determined, hard working, intuitive inventor. It is in their nature to learn from each step forward and come up with a way of improving it.

It is obviously difficult to make a reliable LENR reactor without a theory of how it works. Many bright people have tried. Pons & Fleischmann were successful and have since been replicated ~100 times, but academia still does not accept it as a result of failed early replications.

Dr. Rossi’s early attempts were apparently hit and miss, but with enough hits to persuade me he was onto something. Even IH didn’t do too badly getting $49 million from Woodford as a result of his early E-Cats.

It appears that reliability and control were problems. The low usable temperatures were not that suitable for many industrial uses, like making electricity. The hot cats attempted to address this problem but the later QX reactors were the first to offer reliable, instantaneous on/off ability and high enough temperatures for just about everything.

The QX ‘s output of 100 W is really too small for large industrial applications, something Rossi realizes, Hence the Sk 1kW and work on the 10kW versions.

The problem is that these high temperatures are difficult material problems. Any prototype requires several to be tested for at least a year and the deign and construction of a factory to mass produce it will take another year. The inexperienced armchair critics have no concept how difficult this is.

Others are now working on LENR and the danger is that Rossi will keep perfecting those reactors while others actually bring an inferior version to the market. He needs a commercial version out on the market to bring in money and credibility. It would help if he simply offloaded the factory to others while he continues with development. Rossi is closer to the problem than I am and bright enough to find a solution. I am happy to wait and see.

Display More

What devices has Rossi invented that were successfully commercialized, or successfully produced, or even were the basis of other persons' further inventions and/or refinements that were successfully commercialized or produced? I am asking this seriously because you have a far greater familiarity with AR, his history and his resume, so to speak. My exposure to AR only arose because of the Doral trial and all of my opinions are based on that, especially with a focus on the documents and materials filed with the court. As I have previously stated, I am not a scientist and, as such, am not competent to and do not opine on the science issues everyone else understands nor do I base my opinions of AR on that.

WW: What devices has Rossi invented that were successfully commercialized, or successfully produced, or even were the basis of other persons' further inventions and/or refinements that were successfully commercialized or produced?

AS: The dogbone LENR reactor, Not quite a commercial project, but a new (and useful) tool for cold fusion research. In the form used in early experiments it is pretty much Rossi's baby.

A useful tool for CF research does not meet WW's requirements unless/until some spin-off of that research can be commercialised as a working device. On might perhaps argue that the whole dogbone calorimetry issue suffers potential artifacts (not all yet understood) that make it attractive to LENR researchers because of the false positives these generate.

I guess however that in one way you are right: just as selling dowsing sticks would meet these requriements even if dowsing absolutely did not work (I'm BTW not claiming this, perhaps dowsing does work in which case selling dowsing sticks is a bad example).

THH