Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • It is you that are ignoring the meaning of the verb "to found". The foundation is the first act of a company.

    Again let me ask: Do you have founding documents from them? Where are you getting your information?


    The first announcements and declarations from IH were very clear on the fact that IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat.

    Not the first declarations I heard. Can you point us to these announcements and declarations that say they were founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, and they had no interest in other cold fusion results, and no plans to invest in them? That is not what they told me. They seemed to know a lot about these other experiments, and they seemed interested in investing in them.


    Perhaps you are right, and they started with Rossi and only later become interested in the others. Perhaps. I think is more likely the other way around. My impression is that they were interested in cold fusion as a whole, and while investigating it they found Rossi and concentrated on him. I could be wrong about that. I have not seen any founding documents. It seems you have seen such documents. You sure talk like you have. So tell us what you know.

  • What French Lenr project are you talking about? There has never been a Lenr project in France, Darling !

    There were many experiments in France, paid for by French corporations, universities and so on. I do not know if the French government paid for any directly. Jean-Paul Biberian would know.


    If , probably, you talk about the greatest French communicator on Lenr subject, he probably must have received some coins from USA, no more,

    Who would that be? Anyway, I am sure that most of these experiments were not paid for by anyone in the U.S. I don't always know the inside story about who paid for what, but I would have heard if it was DARPA or someone like that. They would have to acknowledge it in the papers.

  • There has never been a Lenr project in France,

    That will come to a shock to Jean Paul Biberian who still is the editor of JCMNS and mentioned IH support in his talk and even pursues it in his retirement in his own lab.


    no LENR project in France??? even F and P had a multi-million dollar lab there.

  • There were many experiments in France, paid for by French corporations, universities and so on. I do not know if the French government paid for any directly. Jean-Paul Biberian would know.


    Who would that be? Anyway, I am sure that most of these experiments were not paid for by anyone in the U.S. I don't always know the inside story about who paid for what, but I would have heard if it was DARPA or someone like that. They would have to acknowledge it in the papers.

    JedRothwell

    you

    you criticize Rossi because he doesn't give the necessary proof to you.

    Also, I ask you to give us evidence about what you said before.

    Which corporations and universities pay for research in France?

    Some US guys gave some coins to biberian.

    oldguy, I have a question, why Rossi would be a bad communicator and Biberian, a good one ? Be an editor is to relate work from others, not more. therefore what should be your definition?

    you talk about dinosaur time with P & F, I remind you that it was Toyota that payed.

    Alan Smith

    you are wrong about French state investment, sorry, therefore maybe you have new informations to share beyond the forum ?


    we are not in a world with villains on one side like Rossi and good on the other side, don't believe in a religious morality as in Western movies.


  • State funding for 'black projects' is not necessarily good or evil, you are making an irrelevant (from my point of view) comment. Black project funding is to protect the interests of the state, which if the state is benign in intention and action is not always wicked. As for further information, I could not possibly comment.


    ETA- Such funding would probably never be public, and I have no reason to believe that any of it goes to Jean Paul.

  • Cyble - the statement about communicator ability is yours not mine and you seem to twist statements about IH funding someone in France to a discussion about the French government not funding LENR.


    You use of misdirection is interesting. I can tell you would get along with Rossi who keeps moving from topic to topic, incomplete devices to promises of future devices, from heated factories claimed in patents to working robotic factories manufacturing devices he has abandoned.

    It is like nailing Jell-o to a tree.

  • I myself have no idea what brought I.H. into the field. I do not know what triggered their interest, or the sequence of events. I suspect you don't know these things either. If you do know, tell us where you read this history. Please refrain from making assertions without providing evidence.

    Again let me ask: Do you have founding documents from them? Where are you getting your information?


    OK, no problem, I never refrained from providing evidences. It's all on the web. In this specific case you can look at the Rossi vs. Darden docket.

    From the Rossi complaint, dated May 4, 2015

    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…6/11/0001.0_Complaint.pdf


    […]

    42. Unbeknownst to ROSSI and LEONARDO, on October 24,2012, DARDEN and VAUGHN had formed INDUSTRIAL HEAT,LLC as a Delaware limited liability company.

    […]

    44. In justifiable reliance upon the aforementioned representations and assurances of DARDEN, VAUGHN, CHEROKEE and IH, on October 26, 2012, ROSSI and LEONARDO entered into a License Agreement with IH and the then licensee Ampenergo, Inc. for the E-Cat IP ("License Agreement"), a copy of which is attached hereto as Exhibit "B."

    […]



    From the IH answer, dated August 6, 2015

    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…2016/11/0029.0_Answer.pdf


    […]

    42. Defendants lack sufficient knowledge or information to admit or deny the allegations as to Plaintiffs’ knowledge of the timing of the formation of Industrial Heat. Defendants admit that Industrial Heat was formed on or about October 24, 2012. Defendants deny the remaining allegations in Paragraph 42.

    […]

    44. Defendants admit that an incomplete copy of the License Agreement is attached as Exhibit B to the Complaint. Defendants also admit that Plaintiffs entered into the License Agreement with Industrial Heat and AmpEnergo, Inc. (“AEG”) on October 26, 2012.

    Defendants state the License Agreement speaks for itself, and therefore deny any allegations in Paragraph 44 inconsistent therewith. Defendants deny the remaining allegations in Paragraph

    […]



    So, as you can see, IH was formed on (or about) October 24, 2012, and the License Agreement between IH and Leonardo Corp was signed on October 26, 2012.


    Moreover, as showed by the links in my previous answer (Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion ), all the money initially collected by IH since then were used to acquire the Ecat's IP.


    Quote

    Why wouldn't they read about these other researchers, and take them seriously? Why would they focus exclusively on Rossi?

    Probably because they chose to call their company "Industrial Heat". Do you know any other LENR initiative that was claiming to be ready to market LENR reactors for generating heat on an industrial scale?


    Quote

    Can you point us to these announcements and declarations that say they were founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, …

    I already pointed you (see Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion ) the IH declarations where they announced to have acquired the Ecat's IP.


    Quote

    … and they had no interest in other cold fusion results, and no plans to invest in them?

    I didn't say that. I'm not aware of their intimate intentions at that time. But, as already pointed out, they spent all the money collected in 2012 (11.6 M$) to acquire the Ecat's IP (10.5 M$ to Rossi, plus expenses). There was nothing left to be invested in other cold fusion initiatives. Well, at least until they got the Woodford money and abandoned their initial Ecat deal.


    Quote

    I have not seen any founding documents. It seems you have seen such documents. You sure talk like you have. So tell us what you know.

    I already did. Please, see above.

    Date of foundation of IH: October 24, 2012

    Date of its agreement with Leonardo Corp: October 26, 2012.

    You don't need any other document.

  • About France.

    Some have suspected the problem was military risk (fear of weaponization)... I don't swallow it but who knows.

    What seems clear is that LENR was career destructor, because of US bad press. Same as for the Indians, who stopped despite success because it was destroying their international credibility.


    Today. Vivons heureux, vivons cachés.


    All my thanks to the Japanese teams, the replications across many universities. It did the job.

    Thanks Jed for your reporting and translation of Japanese work. Maybe it was critical.


    Now question is not whether LENR is real, reproducible, but to investigate, understand then control LENR, despite bad press.

    Today it is time to cooperate... I wish the best to all, as a consumer, I'll win.

  • So, as you can see, IH was formed on (or about) October 24, 2012, and the License Agreement between IH and Leonardo Corp was signed on October 26, 2012.

    That indicates they investigated Rossi before forming the company, and he was one of their target investments. It does not mean Rossi was the only target, or that they did not investigate others. I do not recall when I first heard from them but it was clear they knew a lot about other researchers.


    Probably because they chose to call their company "Industrial Heat". Do you know any other LENR initiative that was claiming to be ready to market LENR reactors for generating heat on an industrial scale?

    I do not think that has any significance.


    In any case, they told me they would invest in others and that was their plan. Subsequently they did invest in others. So, I will take what they actually said and did as evidence of their intention, rather than what you speculate based on the name of the company. I think what people actually did is better proof than what an anonymous person on the internet claims they intended to do.

  • That indicates they investigated Rossi before forming the company, and he was one of their target investments. It does not mean Rossi was the only target, or that they did not investigate others. I do not recall when I first heard from them but it was clear they knew a lot about other researchers.


    It's obvious that before forming a specific company to acquire a very expensive IP, they spent time and efforts to investigate the whole LENR field. But, thereafter, they decided to found a company called "Industrial Heat", raise 11,555,050 $ by a SEC filing (1), and give all this sum to Rossi to acquire his Ecat's IP.


    This public behavior can be interpreted in one and only one way from the exterior. However …


    Quote

    In any case, they told me they would invest in others and that was their plan. Subsequently they did invest in others. So, I will take what they actually said and did as evidence of their intention, rather than what you speculate based on the name of the company. I think what people actually did is better proof than what an anonymous person on the internet claims they intended to do.


    … you are for sure much more informed than me. Therefore, if you say that since the beginning their real intention was to invest in others than Rossi, I have no problem in believing you on this point. After all, this is exactly what you have anticipated in April 2011 (2), and this hypothesis fits very well with the rest of the story.


    But, please, let me speculate that a company called "Industrial Heat" should have had the purpose to market a device able to provide heat to the industry, or at least the purpose to let people and investors believe that that was its real aim. Otherwise, if the real scope was just to keep financing the usual researches on LENR, the company should have been more properly called "Impossible Heat" or "Inconclusive Heat" or something similar.


    (1) https://www.sec.gov/Archives/e…lFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

    (2) http://www.mail-archive.com/vo…@eskimo.com/msg45581.html

  • There's a nice transcript of Tom Darden's speech at the opening of ICCF-19 linked here. It might possibly help to read it.


    https://e-catworld.com/2015/04…speech-on-lenr-at-iccf19/


    Thanks Alan. That should lay the matter to rest:


    "One day I received a random call about cold fusion. I didn’t give it much credence because I remembered in detail the disclosure about Fleischmann and Pons years before, and I believed the subject was dead. Then thirty days later I received another unrelated inquiry from a different group, so we began to do some research, and then thirty days later, I received a call from another group. We had invested in 100 startup companies and I had never gotten an inquiry about fusion or about LENR: three within 30 day intervals. We funded two of these groups, and then later, as many of you know, we licensed Andrea Rossi’s technology. Since then we’ve made grants to university groups exploring research in this space, and we continue to fund additional teams. We envision an ecosystem of collaboration with great scientists who work together to develop the many systems and technologies society will need to shift away from polluting fossil fuels."

  • Therefore, if you say that since the beginning their real intention was to invest in others than Rossi, I have no problem in believing you on this point.

    What I say is not the issue here. It is what the people at I.H. said. I am not who you should believe, and my credibility will not be hurt if it turns out you are correct.


    There's a nice transcript of Tom Darden's speech at the opening of ICCF-19 linked here. It might possibly help to read it.

    Hey! No fair. Don't look at original sources or read what the people at I.H. themselves say. Speculate, speculate, speculate instead. That's how the game is played.