Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Quote from Ascoli65

It is you that are ignoring the meaning of the verb "to found". The foundation is the first act of a company.

Again let me ask: Do you have founding documents from them? Where are you getting your information?

Quote from Ascoli65

The first announcements and declarations from IH were very clear on the fact that IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat.

Not the first declarations I heard. Can you point us to these announcements and declarations that say they were founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, and they had no interest in other cold fusion results, and no plans to invest in them? That is not what they told me. They seemed to know a lot about these other experiments, and they seemed interested in investing in them.

Perhaps you are right, and they started with Rossi and only later become interested in the others. Perhaps. I think is more likely the other way around. My impression is that they were interested in cold fusion as a whole, and while investigating it they found Rossi and concentrated on him. I could be wrong about that. I have not seen any founding documents. It seems you have seen such documents. You sure talk like you have. So tell us what you know.

Quote from Cydonia

What French Lenr project are you talking about? There has never been a Lenr project in France, Darling !

There were many experiments in France, paid for by French corporations, universities and so on. I do not know if the French government paid for any directly. Jean-Paul Biberian would know.

Quote from Cydonia

If , probably, you talk about the greatest French communicator on Lenr subject, he probably must have received some coins from USA, no more,

Who would that be? Anyway, I am sure that most of these experiments were not paid for by anyone in the U.S. I don't always know the inside story about who paid for what, but I would have heard if it was DARPA or someone like that. They would have to acknowledge it in the papers.

Quote from Cydonia

There has never been a Lenr project in France,

That will come to a shock to Jean Paul Biberian who still is the editor of JCMNS and mentioned IH support in his talk and even pursues it in his retirement in his own lab.

no LENR project in France??? even F and P had a multi-million dollar lab there.

notice the comment was "There has never been a Lenr project in France" not there has never been a project funded by France. Those are different things.

Quote from JedRothwell

There were many experiments in France, paid for by French corporations, universities and so on. I do not know if the French government paid for any directly. Jean-Paul Biberian would know.

Who would that be? Anyway, I am sure that most of these experiments were not paid for by anyone in the U.S. I don't always know the inside story about who paid for what, but I would have heard if it was DARPA or someone like that. They would have to acknowledge it in the papers.

JedRothwell

you

you criticize Rossi because he doesn't give the necessary proof to you.

Also, I ask you to give us evidence about what you said before.

Which corporations and universities pay for research in France?

Some US guys gave some coins to biberian.

oldguy, I have a question, why Rossi would be a bad communicator and Biberian, a good one ? Be an editor is to relate work from others, not more. therefore what should be your definition?

you talk about dinosaur time with P & F, I remind you that it was Toyota that payed.

Alan Smith

you are wrong about French state investment, sorry, therefore maybe you have new informations to share beyond the forum ?

we are not in a world with villains on one side like Rossi and good on the other side, don't believe in a religious morality as in Western movies.

Cyble - Jean-Paul is the Mother Teresa of LENR research and Rossi is the sector's Madoff.

Those two could not be any further apart on every scale including hair (fake is part of the game so it counts).

Cyble - the statement about communicator ability is yours not mine and you seem to twist statements about IH funding someone in France to a discussion about the French government not funding LENR.

You use of misdirection is interesting. I can tell you would get along with Rossi who keeps moving from topic to topic, incomplete devices to promises of future devices, from heated factories claimed in patents to working robotic factories manufacturing devices he has abandoned.

It is like nailing Jell-o to a tree.

Quote from Cydonia

you criticize Rossi because he doesn't give the necessary proof to you.

Also, I ask you to give us evidence about what you said before.

Which corporations and universities pay for research in France?

I suggest you read the papers and find out.

Quote from JedRothwell

I myself have no idea what brought I.H. into the field. I do not know what triggered their interest, or the sequence of events. I suspect you don't know these things either. If you do know, tell us where you read this history. Please refrain from making assertions without providing evidence.

Quote from JedRothwell

Again let me ask: Do you have founding documents from them? Where are you getting your information?

OK, no problem, I never refrained from providing evidences. It's all on the web. In this specific case you can look at the Rossi vs. Darden docket.

So, as you can see, IH was formed on (or about) October 24, 2012, and the License Agreement between IH and Leonardo Corp was signed on October 26, 2012.

Moreover, as showed by the links in my previous answer (Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion ), all the money initially collected by IH since then were used to acquire the Ecat's IP.

Quote

Why wouldn't they read about these other researchers, and take them seriously? Why would they focus exclusively on Rossi?

Probably because they chose to call their company "Industrial Heat". Do you know any other LENR initiative that was claiming to be ready to market LENR reactors for generating heat on an industrial scale?

Quote

Can you point us to these announcements and declarations that say they were founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, …

I already pointed you (see Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion ) the IH declarations where they announced to have acquired the Ecat's IP.

Quote

… and they had no interest in other cold fusion results, and no plans to invest in them?

I didn't say that. I'm not aware of their intimate intentions at that time. But, as already pointed out, they spent all the money collected in 2012 (11.6 M$) to acquire the Ecat's IP (10.5 M$ to Rossi, plus expenses). There was nothing left to be invested in other cold fusion initiatives. Well, at least until they got the Woodford money and abandoned their initial Ecat deal.

Quote

I have not seen any founding documents. It seems you have seen such documents. You sure talk like you have. So tell us what you know.

I already did. Please, see above.

Date of foundation of IH: October 24, 2012

Date of its agreement with Leonardo Corp: October 26, 2012.

You don't need any other document.

"State funding for 'black projects' is not necessarily good or evil"

Quote from Ascoli65

So, as you can see, IH was formed on (or about) October 24, 2012, and the License Agreement between IH and Leonardo Corp was signed on October 26, 2012.

That indicates they investigated Rossi before forming the company, and he was one of their target investments. It does not mean Rossi was the only target, or that they did not investigate others. I do not recall when I first heard from them but it was clear they knew a lot about other researchers.

Quote from Ascoli65

Probably because they chose to call their company "Industrial Heat". Do you know any other LENR initiative that was claiming to be ready to market LENR reactors for generating heat on an industrial scale?

I do not think that has any significance.

In any case, they told me they would invest in others and that was their plan. Subsequently they did invest in others. So, I will take what they actually said and did as evidence of their intention, rather than what you speculate based on the name of the company. I think what people actually did is better proof than what an anonymous person on the internet claims they intended to do.

Quote from JedRothwell

That indicates they investigated Rossi before forming the company, and he was one of their target investments. It does not mean Rossi was the only target, or that they did not investigate others. I do not recall when I first heard from them but it was clear they knew a lot about other researchers.

It's obvious that before forming a specific company to acquire a very expensive IP, they spent time and efforts to investigate the whole LENR field. But, thereafter, they decided to found a company called "Industrial Heat", raise 11,555,050 $ by a SEC filing (1), and give all this sum to Rossi to acquire his Ecat's IP.

This public behavior can be interpreted in one and only one way from the exterior. However …

Quote

In any case, they told me they would invest in others and that was their plan. Subsequently they did invest in others. So, I will take what they actually said and did as evidence of their intention, rather than what you speculate based on the name of the company. I think what people actually did is better proof than what an anonymous person on the internet claims they intended to do.

… you are for sure much more informed than me. Therefore, if you say that since the beginning their real intention was to invest in others than Rossi, I have no problem in believing you on this point. After all, this is exactly what you have anticipated in April 2011 (2), and this hypothesis fits very well with the rest of the story.

But, please, let me speculate that a company called "Industrial Heat" should have had the purpose to market a device able to provide heat to the industry, or at least the purpose to let people and investors believe that that was its real aim. Otherwise, if the real scope was just to keep financing the usual researches on LENR, the company should have been more properly called "Impossible Heat" or "Inconclusive Heat" or something similar.

(1) https://www.sec.gov/Archives/e…lFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

(2) http://www.mail-archive.com/vo…@eskimo.com/msg45581.html

Quote from Ascoli65

Therefore, if you say that since the beginning their real intention was to invest in others than Rossi, I have no problem in believing you on this point.

What I say is not the issue here. It is what the people at I.H. said. I am not who you should believe, and my credibility will not be hurt if it turns out you are correct.

Quote from Alan Smith

There's a nice transcript of Tom Darden's speech at the opening of ICCF-19 linked here. It might possibly help to read it.

Hey! No fair. Don't look at original sources or read what the people at I.H. themselves say. Speculate, speculate, speculate instead. That's how the game is played.

Quote from Shane D.

We funded two of these groups, and then later, as many of you know, we licensed Andrea Rossi’s technology.

Makes me wonder what where the other two groups that they funded prior to the later licensing to Rossi?